Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Oct-17 3:51 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 140 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-09 9:26 pm 

Joined: 2010-Jan-01 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
One of the guys in my playgroup runs TA in hit Sharuum deck and it is probably the biggest threat in the whole deck. When there are several artifacts that are auto-includes in almost every EDH deck it is hardly a hop skip or jump to get any deck running blue to be annoying as crap with TA.

When my frined runs Sharuum he generally has TA every single game by T6, if not sooner, and can generally tap it for 7-10 mana at that point.

Global artiifact destruction is definately NOT an answer to this card as the decks have so much tutoring and card draw that the turn TA hits play it is usually followed up by Darksteel Forge or some Lattice/Forge/Disk combo.

Arguing that TA isn't really powerful is understandable if you've never played against a deck with it. Or even ran one with it. But otherwise there is no question.

How many players do you think it takes to finally take out a TA when a person runs a dedicated deck like this? I would say 3-4 because you have to fight through all the other crap and remove all of the recursion before it even matters whether you can destroy it a couple of times.

This being said I would say that it shouldn't be banned. There are several answers that I rarely see to decks like this, and there are other lands,spells that are just as powerful. When my friend wants to play his artifacts EDH, then I play my enchantments EDh and it is a race between his TA and my Serra's Sanctum. He usually wins as most of his spells are colorless or blue, but it's not impossible for me to beat him.

Problems with mono-blue? There is always City of Solitude or your own mono-blue deck. Thst is the only reason I own an Azami deck...

_________________
DCI Judge Level 2

Current EDH Decks:

Doran, the Seige Tower : Enchantment Lockdown
Angus Mackenzie: Flicker/Blink Shenanigans
Hazezon Tamar: Sudden Army


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-11 11:48 am 

Joined: 2010-Jan-06 11:40 pm
Age: Drake
Aaron948537 wrote:
When my frined runs Sharuum he generally has TA every single game by T6, if not sooner, and can generally tap it for 7-10 mana at that point.

Global artiifact destruction is definately NOT an answer to this card as the decks have so much tutoring and card draw that the turn TA hits play it is usually followed up by Darksteel Forge or some Lattice/Forge/Disk combo.
...
This being said I would say that it shouldn't be banned. There are several answers that I rarely see to decks like this, and there are other lands,spells that are just as powerful. When my friend wants to play his artifacts EDH, then I play my enchantments EDh and it is a race between his TA and my Serra's Sanctum. He usually wins as most of his spells are colorless or blue, but it's not impossible for me to beat him.


What peculiar logic. "TA is overpowered and hard to answer BUT, it's balanced and thus should not be banned."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-11 5:59 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Mylon wrote:
What peculiar logic. "TA is overpowered and hard to answer BUT, it's balanced and thus should not be banned."

Nowhere in the post you quoted is Academy referred to as "balanced." It's obviously overpowered; I don't think anyone is trying to make a case against that fact. What I and others have said is that it's okay to have some cards that are hugely overpowered in the format. Skullclamp and Sol Ring are great examples of this. Academy is arguably better than either but I still feel it falls on the "safe" side of the line.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-11 6:46 pm 

Joined: 2010-Jan-01 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
Tolarian Academy is nowhere near balanced, I just thi nk it is one of those cards that is healthy for EDH. It may do ridiculous things sometimes but EDH is a casual format first and foremost. There are certain cards that are banned just because they are especially brutal and un-fun in the format, but I don't feel that TA falls under this category. It's extremely good and can be extremely fun. It just happens that most of the time you see it is in decks that do annoying/combo things. It doesn't have to be, it just is.

P.S. Please READ posts before you respond to them...

_________________
DCI Judge Level 2

Current EDH Decks:

Doran, the Seige Tower : Enchantment Lockdown
Angus Mackenzie: Flicker/Blink Shenanigans
Hazezon Tamar: Sudden Army


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-11 7:18 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
We were having this conversation the other night.

My intent was to play Sharuum and threaten to win if no one stopped me... and it turned out that no one could... so I won. I don't recall it being directly related to TA... more so the ability to take infinite turns with Magistrates scepter until I drew something to kill everyone... but the TA really helped.

So I asked, would TA be fair if it tapped for a single blue or colorless for each artifact you controlled?

We all said no.

_________________
3DH4L1F3


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-11 11:48 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jun-09 11:56 am
Age: Drake
They let you keep Voltaic Key/Unbender Tine and Tezzeret with Magistrate's Scepter on the board...

>.>
<.<
>.<

_________________
Image


Without beginning or end, the ring stretches into the infinite


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-12 9:14 am 

Joined: 2010-Jan-06 11:40 pm
Age: Drake
Aaron948537 wrote:
Tolarian Academy is nowhere near balanced, I just thi nk it is one of those cards that is healthy for EDH. It may do ridiculous things sometimes but EDH is a casual format first and foremost. There are certain cards that are banned just because they are especially brutal and un-fun in the format, but I don't feel that TA falls under this category. It's extremely good and can be extremely fun. It just happens that most of the time you see it is in decks that do annoying/combo things. It doesn't have to be, it just is.

P.S. Please READ posts before you respond to them...


So the end result is, if you have lots of overpowered cards like TA and Sol Ring and other fun cards, you win the game before it even starts when playing against players with a less prolific library of cards.

I mean, the cards that are on the banlist are obviously unbalanced but is drawing 3 cards for 1 blue really more powerful than TA? If the card was banned for balance reasons, then why are other obviously overpowered cards allowed?

P.S. I do READ posts before I respond to them. I merely find it appalling that many are more concerned with playing their TOTALLY AWESOME cards than having a balanced and fun for everyone game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-12 9:30 pm 

Joined: 2010-Jan-01 9:42 pm
Age: Drake
Some players like to be competetive and don't even have fun otherwise. Hence the different gamer types (spike, johnny, timmy, voltron, griefer...etc.). Banning the cards that a competetive player would be more likely to use is silly. We would be banning things left and right and soon we would all just say "screw it" and play Standard or some other typical format.

Quote:
So the end result is, if you have lots of overpowered cards like TA and Sol Ring and other fun cards, you win the game before it even starts when playing against players with a less prolific library of cards.


This is nothing new to Magic and could be said for any format. If I run an Intro deck at a Standard GP, should I expect to do as well as someone running a highly-tuned competetive deck? Hell no. It's the same concept. Some people like to run the best decks they can possibly build, and others just want something that is fun to play. Still other want both. This still doesn't mean you get an "auto-win", it just reduces your chances drastically. And if someone plays you with their really competetive deck against your fun deck and you lose, so what? It's not like you can only play that person and that deck...

Build something good for your meta, or find people who want to play with the same level of competetiveness as you. Don't ban every card just 'cause you get stomped by it. (and by no means does TA in a deck mean you automatically win.)

_________________
DCI Judge Level 2

Current EDH Decks:

Doran, the Seige Tower : Enchantment Lockdown
Angus Mackenzie: Flicker/Blink Shenanigans
Hazezon Tamar: Sudden Army


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-12 11:28 pm 

Joined: 2010-Jan-06 11:40 pm
Age: Drake
Aaron948537 wrote:
Some players like to be competetive and don't even have fun otherwise. Hence the different gamer types (spike, johnny, timmy, voltron, griefer...etc.). Banning the cards that a competetive player would be more likely to use is silly. We would be banning things left and right and soon we would all just say "screw it" and play Standard or some other typical format.


Except EDH is supposed to be a casual format and obviously unbalanced (and expensive) cards tend to make the game harder to enjoy and harder to get into.

I have two friends that are getting into EDH. Like me, they don't have very big card libraries. But I went out and bought a few cards to pump up the power of my deck. I also have another friend with a pre-built deck of decent power (but nothing of the likes I've seen put to use), so when they ask me on how to build better, what am I supposed to tell them? Go buy cards X, Y, and Z, because they are auto-includes for a particular color and any deck without them is gimped?

I do like building decks, but given the expense of the matter I've turned to making decks out of proxies. I have one real deck, but even that still could use several cards.

Banning cards would increase deck variety as the huge mass of cards out there that aren't competitive enough would gain an edge when they're not competing with undercosted copies or more balanced cards.

Standard would offer a much more balanced playing field (aside from a couple of oddities like Baneslayer Angel), but would be excluding lots of fine cards and require monetary upkeep to stay current.

I think a good start would be banning restricted cards. They're restricted to keep from pissing off the owners of the cards too much, but they're obviously overpowered else they wouldn't be regulated. When supporting casual interests over financial ones, banning overpowered (and often expensive) cards helps overall.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-13 12:25 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jun-20 7:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Mylon wrote:
Aaron948537 wrote:
I think a good start would be banning restricted cards. They're restricted to keep from pissing off the owners of the cards too much, but they're obviously overpowered else they wouldn't be regulated. When supporting casual interests over financial ones, banning overpowered (and often expensive) cards helps overall.


If you want to do that with your local playgroup, that's a great idea. Asking everyone else to stop using the cards because your group can't afford them isn't really fair to the people who can and enjoy playing with them. For many people part of the draw of EDH is the card pool includes almost all Vintage legal cards. I can't play with Sol Ring or Demonic Tutor anywhere else except Vintage, and I've been playing Magic for over 15 years. Part of what I personally enjoy so much about this format is I can play those cards and not get thrown under the bus just for having them in my group. I also don't play retarded combo decks (outside of Sharuum which basically sits in my box 90% of the time and never gets played due to everyone hating it, and rightly so).

_________________
Current Generals:
Rafiq, Sharuum, Nekusar, Kresh, Mayael, Kaalia, Maelstrom Wanderer, Ghave, Ruhan, Mimeoplasm, Genju of the Realm, Phelddagrif, Derevi, Oloro, Jenara, Karrthus, Marath, Tariel, Riku, Karador, Numot, Damia, Sliver Overlord, Karn, Silver Golem


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-13 2:36 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Dec-22 7:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Brunswick
I fail to see the logic in banning all restricted cards. If a card is restricted you can only run one in any format. Sure there are a few that break the game pretty bad, but they're already banned. So what's the point of banning every restricted card from a format where you can only run one of any card.

_________________
Kicking your teeth in is a valid strategy.
Current decks:
Radha, Heir to Keld-Super Elfball
Retired decks:
Scion, of the Ur-Dragon-Dragons, Dragons everywhere
Wort, Boggart Auntie-Goblin Shenanigans
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer-I will Prevail


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-13 3:28 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2008-Oct-14 7:43 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Boshea wrote:
I fail to see the logic in banning all restricted cards. If a card is restricted you can only run one in any format.

*coughlegacycough*


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-15 2:03 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jun-15 2:53 am
Age: Drake
Quote:
One of the guys in my playgroup runs TA in hit Sharuum deck and it is probably the biggest threat in the whole deck. When there are several artifacts that are auto-includes in almost every EDH deck it is hardly a hop skip or jump to get any deck running blue to be annoying as crap with TA.

When my frined runs Sharuum he generally has TA every single game by T6, if not sooner, and can generally tap it for 7-10 mana at that point.

Global artiifact destruction is definately NOT an answer to this card as the decks have so much tutoring and card draw that the turn TA hits play it is usually followed up by Darksteel Forge or some Lattice/Forge/Disk combo.


null rod is really good at stopping most of the retarded shit sharuum players do


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-16 8:03 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
I dunno, if someone drops Null Rod vs me playing Sharuum, my goal will be to just kill everyone and start a new game.
The problem with Null Rod is that it doesn't stop the namesake of this thread, and a good Sharuum deck will have made that priority one.

My tutors will point to Disciple/Extractor Demon and Sculpting Steel, or if I can't, I'd just 'yard some angry flying robots and see where it gets me.
Hell, getting Lattice is fun, lands no longer tap for mana! YAY! Or if I have enough stuff out, I'll find Palinchron with some sort of tutor and gain infinite mana and see what I can do with it.
But if said Sharuum deck is relying HARD on activated abilities of artifacts, or mana artifacts, they will probably perish.

Honestly, Energy Flux hurts Sharuum a lot worse than Null Rod. The best response to Energy Flux is to go find Lattice, though :wink:

_________________
My card alter blog: The Phyrexian Renaissance


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A Healthy Discussion on Tolarian Academy
AgePosted: 2010-Feb-16 9:41 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
chimpion wrote:
They let you keep Voltaic Key/Unbender Tine and Tezzeret with Magistrate's Scepter on the board...

>.>
<.<
>.<

It was even worse.

I used Rings of Brighthearth to put two counters... let it pass around the board... came back to me, put two counters... played a beacon of tomorrows, and untapped and took too turns with the scepter, drawing into my planar portal.

No one was able to kill anything. I was playing in such a way as to allow them the option of killing stuff (tapping out and making it known I had no counters, I just wanted to threaten to win, not actually do it) but they just didn't have anything to stop me that game.

_________________
3DH4L1F3


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 140 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: intreped and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: