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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-29 11:25 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-13 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Monmouth, OR
You also have cards like Beseech the Queen and even transmute cards that can work in a pinch to be makeshift tutors.

Lim-Dul's Vault is also pretty good stuff as well. Many good tutors exist that can be appropriately substituted for Grim Tutor.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-29 12:28 pm 

Joined: 2009-Sep-10 1:57 am
Age: Wyvern
Opinion wise, LoA should be unbanned I have mine sitting here collecting dust since i broke up my vintage deck and sold parts of it.

I run Black in a lot of my decks for EDH and staple to any black deck is Phyrexian Arena, I believe LoA has way more conditions to meet just to get an extra card per turn. while Phyrexian Arena you lose a life. oooo one life per turn scarry....

Speaking of Expensive cards that ARE NOT banned chaos orb is preety fun =]


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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-29 3:29 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Oct-14 7:43 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
AzureShadow wrote:
Turn three godhand win with Rofellos requires him, umbral mantle, and two acellerants. Worldgorger win on turn two or three or whatever requires entomb, animate dead, an instant speed kill, and an x spell. Also assuming missing no land drops on both.

Why do you need accelerants?
Turn 1: Forest
Turn 2: Forest, Rofellos
Turn 3: Forest, Umbral Mantle, equip, pump Rofellos an arbitrary amount of times, swing for lethal.


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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-29 3:58 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
xinrain wrote:
NOT banned chaos orb

Chaos Orb is not legal in EDH. It isn't "banned" per se, it's just not useable.


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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-29 4:46 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jun-20 7:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
http://www.dragonhighlander.net/rules.php

EDH bans all non-Vintage legal cards, including Chaos Orb.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-29 8:47 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Jul-09 11:42 pm
Age: Drake
Guys, I don't think Worldgorger is banned for the potential combo win. I think its banned on the draw factor more than anything. I mean have any of you ever played against the old T1 dragon deck? If it ever looked like it was going to loose it would just draw the game with its unending loop. That violates the unfun rule. Add in the combo win and it seems like a no brainer.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-29 10:24 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jun-21 11:49 pm
Age: Dragon
xinrain wrote:
I run Black in a lot of my decks for EDH and staple to any black deck is Phyrexian Arena, I believe LoA has way more conditions to meet just to get an extra card per turn. while Phyrexian Arena you lose a life. oooo one life per turn scarry....


You believe wrong. Keeping 7 in hand, especially when you're drawing two a turn, isn't hard. Arena costs you 1 life per turn. Library costs you 1 mana per turn. I know which I'd rather pay, and it ain't the life. (If you desperately need the mana, you can always forgo the extra draw that turn. Arena doesn't give you that option if you're at 1 life.) Throw in that Library is colorless and would be an auto-include in every deck, and you begin to see the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-30 3:30 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-08 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Northridge, CA
I think the Library issue can be compared to Mana Drain in EDH. Does Mana Drain make every deck with blue in it better? I would say yes. But how many people feel the need to absolutely have a Mana Drain in their EDH decks? I know I'm the only one in my playgroup that has one, no one gives me crap about it, and at the same time no one feels like they are at a disadvantage because they don't have one, in fact I lose more games than I win.

That being said, if Library is unbanned are there going to be people who put one in every deck? Probably, but those people are going to be few and far between, the rest of us will go on playing without, or maybe having just one LoA. Also, is Library really going to win the game in a multiplayer format, where the majority of decks are packing a Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, and/or Strip Mine? Probably not. Most decks are using those cards as an answer to Maze of Ith or Volrath's Stronghold, it really just gives them another target.

I also personally don't really buy the argument of a perceived higher cost of entry into the format. The great thing about the format is that people can play how they want to play, and decks function at different levels with varying degree of power in cards. The reason Vintage has the price stigma, is because, with exceptions, decks can't compete without certain pieces of power. EDH decks function without Library, and will continue to do so even were it unbanned. I think its a safe enough card to unban in this singleton format.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-30 12:40 pm 
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Joined: 2006-May-09 4:17 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary, AB
Mana Drain is more likely to be banned than Library is to be unbanned.

(The former is pretty unlikely)

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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Oct-30 4:36 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-08 11:27 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Northridge, CA
I kind of figured that the card isn't going to be unbanned. But unlike the decisions that are made for the Vintage B/R list, I trust the decisions made by the EDH committee, as I know they are testing these cards to see what is ban-worthy. And thank you for keeping Mana Drain safe :D I can say that though I would love to see it unbanned, that may ultimately be because I own one, and would love to use it in my Vorosh deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Nov-01 7:49 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-02 10:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Im surprised to see the people against LoA being banned find the card "not that great" or "not that great compared to card x"

LoA as you're first drop is insane card advantage at 0 cost. I've seen alot of games where someone drops a Thawing Glaciers first turn. This ensures a landdrop every turn till about turn 13-15. This gives you insane (card) advantage. Now consider that card advantage doubled (no replaying your Glaciers, hell you dont even need to use mana for it) and it gets a little rediculous.

Im sorry for the people that have a LoA and really want to play it, but overpowered cards and games won based on luck are a Vintage thing, not EDH.

PNineFTW wrote:
in fact I lose more games than I win.


which makes you very unique in this multiplayer environment :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Nov-09 9:56 pm 

Joined: 2009-Sep-06 9:26 pm
Age: Wyvern
I'd love to play LoA, but I'm surprised how much people are downplaying it. When you have it and you're playing properly, you either have 6, 7, 8, or 9 cards in your hand at all times. You plan on playing exactly two cards a turn or discarding. That really is more than enough to win the game, even in multiplayer.


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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2009-Nov-29 5:13 am 

Joined: 2009-Oct-23 9:37 pm
Age: Wyvern
AzureShadow wrote:
Yes, I know they're both banned in vintage


This bugged me; they aren't banned in Vintage, they're banned in Legacy and only restricted in Vintage. For some reason I felt this clarification to be important.

With that said, all of the reasons mentioned are good reasons that Library should remain banned. If you look at a lot of unsanctioned Vintage tournaments, the cost factor is the main reason people are permitted x number of proxies (in some tournaments, certainly not all). The last thing I want to see in EDH is a basic land with LoA scrawled across it. That isn't the primary reason obviously, but all of the better reasons have already been stated.


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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2010-Jan-15 9:50 am 

Joined: 2010-Jan-13 10:54 am
Age: Hatchling
Image

Library needs to be considered for unbanning. Keep in mind, we're playing 100 card decks, and we're limited to ONE copy of each card. I see my Library of Alexandria maybe 15% of my games. If I don't see it in my opening 7, it's power goes down drastically as the game progresses. It's just one of those nostalgic cards I love seeing as I shuffle.
Also, the argument of it's monetary value hurting it's chances of being unbanned is ridiculous. I bought my Library for $80 for EDH. To play competitive standard you need 4x Baneslayer Angels. That's $180. Unless you're me, and have 4x foil. ;)
I'm going to be bitter with Sheldon and co. until this card is unbanned. I win 90% of my games with Sorin and Magister Sphinx. Ban them for god sakes.


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 Post subject: Re: Worldgorger and Library ban questioning
AgePosted: 2010-Jan-15 7:57 pm 

Joined: 2010-Jan-06 11:40 pm
Age: Drake
I think it's quite amusing that drawing an extra card per turn is so important. It just goes to show how much of the game is based around having the right card at the right time.


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