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 Post subject: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 8:53 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-04 10:04 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Chester, NH
Felidar Soverign is a white 6-cast creature from Zendicar with the following ability: "If you have 40 or more life, you win the game."

No way some w/b deck will fill up on tutors and just win every game on turn six.

RC/Moderator Edit: We'll be considering it (and Iona) once we have some really experience with them. For the same reason we unbanned Rofellos to test it out, we don't want to ban anything without trying it first.

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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 8:54 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-08 6:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rouen, France
Thaze wrote:
Felidar Soverign is a white 6-cast creature from Zendicar with the following ability: "If you have 40 or more life, you win the game."

No way some w/b deck will fill up on tutors and just win every game on turn six.


I think there's a testing period to be gone through first no?

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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 9:04 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-13 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Monmouth, OR
Jesus Christ, people should just stop crying out for pre-emptive bans before the set has even been fully spoiled.

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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 9:22 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
I don't see anything that would cause us to emergency ban it. If players demonstrate that it's broken, then we'll consider it for December.

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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 9:27 am 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-19 6:32 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
I'd say it's more likely to cause problems in G/W than W/B. Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, and Grim Tutor don't quite synergize with the life requirement, while Wordly Tutor, Congregation at Dawn, and (especially) Primal Command don't require you to gain life from somewhere else. Just saying.

I'm not afraid of the card at all. If the player can reach 6 mana and go a full turn cycle without taking damage or having the Sovereign removed, none of his opponents probably deserved to win anyway.

EDIT: You're also going to be really pissed when someone steals this guy with Bribery or something. ;P Hell, an EOT Treacherous Urge on this would be a very cool and simple way of winning a game. Now I'm hoping that this card will see play. I've always wanted to play the Urge in a deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 9:42 am 

Joined: 2008-Jun-20 7:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
If you can resolve this before someone can either do a few points of damage to you or kill it before you get an upkeep, then you deserve to win.

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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 11:10 am 

Joined: 2009-Aug-03 8:55 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I feel stupid reposting what I did at MTG Salvation, but there are ton of "ban" threads going on here too. I'll bold the gist in blue for short attention spans like me.

Unless the EDH guys have played often against someone, they really can't use their ban list suggestions beyond "Well, 40 people seem to think X, we better test it." Anonymous internet recommendations will continue to flourish as the format grows... The format powers are better off ignoring them or at best taking them with a full shaker of salt.

Moreover, EDH inherently gives each playgroup full authority to decide their fate. It's just most players don't want to undertake a leadership position and the "official" ban list is a crutch. I don't mean that badly, because I think this crutch is extremely vital to fledgling playgroups. Afterall, crutches help people walk. Or think of it as a toddler grabbing onto a coffeetable. (Yeah, that's much less offensive... Ah, I don't mean this to be patronizing.) :P

My suggestion is to make due with the suggested list at first, but if you think your group is ready to diverge from it, ditch the crutch and walk.

We each know our own group(s). Few players have a global view that behooves deciding changes on the official list. Sure, chime in with an idea, but if it isn't taken, understand there's a bigger picture the EDH dudes are seeing.


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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 11:44 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-09 4:17 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary, AB
ludd_gang wrote:
My suggestion is to make due with the suggested list at first, but if you think your group is ready to diverge from it, ditch the crutch and walk.


I need a QFTx50 button.


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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 11:49 am 
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Joined: 2008-Sep-15 10:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Portland, OR
If you're going to suggest a card for banning without any testing to back it up, the least you could do is spell the card's name right.


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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 12:09 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jun-21 11:49 pm
Age: Dragon
Thaze wrote:
Felidar Soverign is a white 6-cast creature from Zendicar with the following ability: "If you have 40 or more life, you win the game."

No way some w/b deck will fill up on tutors and just win every game on turn six.


I'd be more worried about Entomb-Animate Dead shenanigans. If nobody's taken even a point off you (including yourself - painlands, fetchlands, shocklands, etc.) by turn 6 and this guy survives a full turn cycle, your opponents are probably doing something wrong. Same thing on turn two, though ... bit harder to deal with.

This is one I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see cause problems, but let's actually see it cause said problems before we axe it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 2:29 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-04 10:04 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Chester, NH
You're all acting like this deck sits there until turn 6. Firstly, we're talking white here. White has enough gain/prevention/lifelink/removal to make sure that they stay above 40. Like what was said above, so what if he dies? That's the second half of what black is for. Just pop him back at eot.

I'm not saying to ban it preemptively, but you gotta watch out for this thing as soon as Zendikar is released. It's one of the cheapest combos I've ever seen, especially considering the fact that it's only one card.

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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 2:49 pm 

Joined: 2008-Sep-21 11:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
read the entire card.

it only triggers at the start of your upkeep.

so if test of endurance isn't banned why would this card be ?

there are instant bring a critter out of your graveyard spells, for the as an instant at the eot I .. makeshift maniquen - the 5 cost white one is skipping my mind.

or instants / effects that allow you to get it into play orrey / flash etc.

But folks still get a phase to respond.

If it was a ledgend I'd agree, but a critter not so much.


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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 3:16 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
odit wrote:
But folks still get a phase to respond.

Actually, this is the one reason I think it might be better than Test of Endurance: it's possible that they don't. I'm looking at end step Worldly Tutor/Congregation at Dawn + Impromptu Raid, or end step Eladamri's Call + Sneak Attack, or, as you mentioned, end step Entomb + Makeshift Mannequin/Miraculous Recovery.

The only way I know of to get that kind of cheats with the Test is either Vedalken Orrery or Academy Rector. It's also a little harder to remove the Test but also a lot harder to recur the Test.

I'm not particularly worried about the Sovereign, but I think it's worth keeping an eye on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 3:24 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jul-04 10:04 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Chester, NH
You seem to forget that you start at 40 life, not 50. Also, you seem to be forgetting cards like silence that make it so your opponent can't respond.

As another trick, don't forget [card]Scout's Warning[/card].

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Current EDH:
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Rune-Tail, Kitsune Weenies

Current type 2:
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Mono black aggro
Wolflord
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 Post subject: Re: Ban Felidar Soverign!!!
AgePosted: 2009-Sep-14 3:32 pm 
EDH Rules Committee
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Best thing about someone playing an "I win the game card" is that you can just keep playing without them afterward.

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