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 Post subject: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-May-22 4:37 am 

Joined: 2018-Jan-10 3:33 am
Age: Egg
Hey there!

I had a question as I was browsing the new cards being released with Battlebond. How will the new Battlebond cards with their "Partner with" mechanic work in the EDH/Commander format? Will we be able to use the "Partner with" cards as our commanders, similar to the Partner mechanic we saw a few years ago? Example:

Will we be able to use both the legendary creatures Pir, Imaginative Rascal and Toothy,Imaginary Friend as our Partner commanders to create a Simic deck?

Will we be able to use both the legendary creatures Krav, the Unredeemed and Regna, the Redeemer as our Partner commanders to create an Orzhov deck? Both have the `Partner with` mechanic with each other, but the explanation of the `Partner with` mechanic doesn't exactly match the previous `Partner` mechanic.

Will we be able to use both the legendary planeswalkers Will Kenrith and Rowan Kenrith as our Partner commanders to create an Izzet deck? Both have the `Partner with` mechanic with each other, and both cards have the clause `This card can be your commander.`

This `Partner with` mechanic is causing some confusion in regards to the original `Partner` mechanic. I would love to use some of these BBD cards to create some fun dual color EDH decks, but I need some clarification first.

Here's all the current spoilers for the upcoming BBD set: http://mythicspoiler.com/bbd/index.html


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 Post subject: Re: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-May-22 11:20 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Dragon
They are Partners in the Commander 2016 sense ("Partner with" an extension of the Partner keyword) but they can exclusively only partner with each other.

The Find Your Partner With Battlebond article explains this:

Quote:
Though not in the reminder text of the mechanic, the legendary "partner with" cards that reference each other can, together, be your commanders in the Commander format! We were looking for ways to make these creatures both able to be your commander, and a variant on partner made a ton of sense. They do need to be paired up with each other (for example, Toothy and Pir can be played together; Toothy and Ravos, Soultender can't), and we were able to make some really exciting pairs this way. (And if you've been waiting for traditional monocolored partners, you absolutely will get them someday; the Commander playability is a nice bonus here on top of everything else partner with does.) You've seen one now—stay tuned for the rest!


So: yes to Pir/Toothy Simic, yes to Krav/Regna Orzhov, yes to Will/Rowan Izzet.

An example of what you can't do is make a Pir/Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker Bant deck, because Pir won't partner with anyone who isn't Toothy. Fair call of theirs on playing it safe though.

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 Post subject: Re: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-May-22 11:50 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Related; I'm loving Rowan and Will as Commanders. A little pricey maybe, but really, really good.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-May-24 8:02 am 
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I'm getting a serious "we are desperate for money so let's hold a gun to all EDH players heads and force them to buy this set" vibe from battlebond because the power scale has gone from nukes to shattering the space time continuum irreparably. Some of these cards are insane. 5 mana instant speed rise from the dark realms, 4 mana dude that lets green copy every creature they play for 2 extra mana, planeswalker rector, imperial recruiter for spells, a sorcery that makes you double cast all spells for the rest of the turn, which itself is copyable, storm's wet dream tower, archfiend of extreme douchey lameness, krav who sacs boards to draw decks, christ on a bike this set is terrifying.

Sadly though, the art in this set is kind of abysmal, every creature looks like it's set against a desktop wallpaper rather than actually in a scene and all the normal people look like the sexless hipster sjws that directed the art. And the planeswalkers have names that sound ripped right out of some crappy fanfic.

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 Post subject: Re: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-May-24 2:31 pm 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
* 5 mana instant speed rise from the dark realms,
-- No. It only applies to creatures that died that turn. Anything that was previously in the graveyard stay there (unlike rise from the dark realms)
* 4 mana dude that lets green copy every creature they play for 2 extra mana,
-- Okay... so they can pay 1G .. and then that creature's controller gets the copy of the creature. When you're not playing team, it just gives all your dudes 1G kicker of make a token copy. It's neat.. but nowhere is it a "lets green copy every creature"
* planeswalker rector,
-- I haven't seen the original rector see play for so long. This one will be neat and fun, but it has the exact same weaknesses as the original
* imperial recruiter for spells,
-- CMC 2 or less seems a lot less dangerous than a creature with power 2 or less to me. Spells are often balanced based on CMC, while with power of 2 you get ridiculous things like Seedborn Muse, Kiki-jiki, or Mystic Snake.
* a sorcery that makes you double cast all spells for the rest of the turn, which itself is copyable,
-- Which also applies to all your opponents as well. Seems like a significant drawback in a multiplayer free-for-all.
* storm's wet dream tower,
-- A narrow card for a narrow deck. Whats the one from kaladeshblock -- aether resevoir? does a similar kind of thing that draws less hate (as life gain is usually more tolerable than damage) But who doesn't run artifact distruction. And for a storm deck (I'm not familiar with commander builds) how many other good artifact targets do they present?
* archfiend of extreme douchey lameness,
-- A copy of Wound Reflection that is easier to remove because it's a creature? (sure, opponents can't gain life, and this only affects your opponents -- but creatures are so much easier to interact with on average than enchantments.)
* krav who sacs boards to draw decks,
-- He doesn't seem that good to me. He's somewhat strong, but not what you seem to be making of him.


But it reeeally seems like you're screaming that the sky is falling for no real reason. I suggest you sit back, take a deep breath, and actually read over the cards before screaming away at the rise in power level.


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 Post subject: Re: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-May-25 4:11 am 
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Joined: 2016-Nov-27 2:39 pm
Age: Dragon
Carthain wrote:
(stuff about all the cards not being remotely as bad as described)

But it reeeally seems like you're screaming that the sky is falling for no real reason. I suggest you sit back, take a deep breath, and actually read over the cards before screaming away at the rise in power level.

Hear hear. That criticsm of the cards, art, and set release is just way over the line into the ridiculous.

I'm looking forward to this team-up stuff & using it for diplomacy in commander, and I enjoy the art a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-May-25 11:38 pm 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake
Gath Immortal wrote:
I'm getting a serious "we are desperate for money so let's hold a gun to all EDH players heads and force them to buy this set" vibe from battlebond because the power scale has gone from nukes to shattering the space time continuum irreparably. Some of these cards are insane. 5 mana instant speed rise from the dark realms, 4 mana dude that lets green copy every creature they play for 2 extra mana, planeswalker rector, imperial recruiter for spells, a sorcery that makes you double cast all spells for the rest of the turn, which itself is copyable, storm's wet dream tower, archfiend of extreme douchey lameness, krav who sacs boards to draw decks, christ on a bike this set is terrifying.

Sadly though, the art in this set is kind of abysmal, every creature looks like it's set against a desktop wallpaper rather than actually in a scene and all the normal people look like the sexless hipster sjws that directed the art. And the planeswalkers have names that sound ripped right out of some crappy fanfic.

1. Thrilling Encore is not Rise from the Dark Realms. The new card only works on creatures that died that turn.
2. 4-mana creature-copying dude gives token to the controller of the copied creature, not all to you.
3. Agree with Arena Rector though not nearly as powerful as Academy Rector.
4. Spellseeker is fine. We survived Muddle the Mixture and Merchant's Scroll, didn't we?
5. Agree partially with Bonus Round. That looks like it could spawn its own deck in competitive edh, but in casual, opponents can copy their Counterspells, and I think most players will find that a simple Reiterate is safer than allowing the opponents to double cantrip that turn.
6. Sentinel Tower is just a worse Aetherflux Reservoir. It's fine.
7. In a format with Protean Hulk and Razaketh, Wound Reflection on a body is nothing.
8. I don't think Krav is that OP by himself since 1 card:1 creature at 1 mana per exchange is not the most broken way to gain card advantage, but I will say that he definitely shouldn't have been given a partner.

9. Were you there for Ixalan and Kaladesh at all?

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 Post subject: Re: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-Jun-02 6:16 am 
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Gath Immortal wrote:
I'm getting a serious "we are desperate for money so let's hold a gun to all EDH players heads and force them to buy this set" vibe from battlebond because the power scale has gone from nukes to shattering the space time continuum irreparably.


Sorry, had to reread this over the sound of Earthcraft cranking out value oblivion.

Honestly, the set's cumulative power level is less than the regular yearly commander product. Even with the high scale reprints, the new cards do cool things, and are multiplayer focused. It's definitely aimed at Commander enthusiasts- but I don't see any individual piece of or combination of pieces on display that shake the vintage cardpool. Even the not-actually-duals are underwhelming when given a few moments of consideration (if they were enemy colored with dual typing, they would be much more exciting, and sought after. Even without dual typing EVEN, having more enemy colored fixing would be super helpful for many builds.)

I somewhat agree about the art though. I think the cardart is unappealing because there seems to be absolutely no color muting at all in many of the pieces on the subject... Something that is usually considered bad technique by virtue of making it difficult for the audience's eye to follow. Many of the pieces are visually confusing pastel hell- I still have a hard time looking at Najeela's art and knowing how to contextualize any of it except for the hatchwork done to imply a shape in her face.

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 Post subject: Pumpin' the breaks
AgePosted: 2018-Jun-02 11:46 am 

Joined: 2017-Jun-13 4:56 am
Age: Drake
Before this thread goes off the cliff I will drop a brief PSA. This is Gath Immortal talking. He has voiced these opinions regarding every set I've ever seen him discuss. It's overpowered, it's unbalanced, cards in it require banning. The SJW jab is the first I've seen, but maybe I haven't been paying enough attention :P

My biggest concern atm is fairly mild. Last One Standing seems inconvenient to randomize if you don't have a computer handy. To that end I recommend http://www.Random.Org for all your sufficiently unpredictable determination needs.

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 Post subject: Re: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-Jun-11 9:24 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
MMLgamer wrote:
1. Thrilling Encore is not Rise from the Dark Realms. The new card only works on creatures that died that turn.

5 mana is still really cheap for "Bring all the things back that you just blew a sweeper on, and all on my board".

MMLgamer wrote:
Spellseeker is fine. We survived Muddle the Mixture and Merchant's Scroll, didn't we?

Muddle and Scroll aren't trivially easy to relentlessly blink or reanimate. I'm not saying Spellseeker is broken, but it's a little dishonest to compare it to existing tutors without remembering that it's a creature.

MMLgamer wrote:
I don't think Krav is that OP by himself since 1 card:1 creature at 1 mana per exchange is not the most broken way to gain card advantage, but I will say that he definitely shouldn't have been given a partner.

You might want to re-read that one. It's pay one black and sacrifice X to gain X draw X and pump X. Not a 1:1 exchange rate on mana. All you need is "something" in black/white that spams tokens and you can draw a ridiculous amount of cards, and/or deck your opponents rather handily. Again, not saying it's broken/bannable, but still... that thing seems really dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: New Battlebond cards
AgePosted: 2018-Jul-02 2:54 pm 

Joined: 2015-Dec-22 4:41 am
Age: Drake
Quote:
MMLgamer wrote:
Spellseeker is fine. We survived Muddle the Mixture and Merchant's Scroll, didn't we?

Muddle and Scroll aren't trivially easy to relentlessly blink or reanimate. I'm not saying Spellseeker is broken, but it's a little dishonest to compare it to existing tutors without remembering that it's a creature.
Blink and reanimate effects are not trivially easy to include in a deck that hopes to make great use of Spellseeker. Also, it's not dishonest to compare Spellseeker with other tutors at all. The fact that it's on a body may justify the fact that it's more than 2 mana. The biggest abuse of its card type I can see is with Inalla and Brago, but only because they are commanders. I don't think its combo potential with non-commander blink and reiteration effects is significant enough to justify calling this a broken card.

Quote:
MMLgamer wrote:
I don't think Krav is that OP by himself since 1 card:1 creature at 1 mana per exchange is not the most broken way to gain card advantage, but I will say that he definitely shouldn't have been given a partner.

You might want to re-read that one. It's pay one black and sacrifice X to gain X draw X and pump X. Not a 1:1 exchange rate on mana. All you need is "something" in black/white that spams tokens and you can draw a ridiculous amount of cards, and/or deck your opponents rather handily. Again, not saying it's broken/bannable, but still... that thing seems really dumb.

I didn't say it was a 1 card:1 creature + 1 mana exchange. I said 1 card:1 creature at 1 mana per exchange. If this were a mono-black commander, it would be competing with Chainer, Sidisi, Erebos, Yahenni, etc. Sidisi in particular can be used to fetch a Necropotence or an Ad Nauseum.

Of course, it's not mono-black.
...

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