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 Post subject: Re: obsidiandice on Tuck
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-04 8:04 pm 

Joined: 2009-May-05 9:45 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: Acworth, GA
Matt wrote:
Tim.

My entire point is strategy based. The least disruptive strategy for everyone else is to target the guy that crosses the line. Avoiding splash damage on less targeted plays is better for the non offenders.

It is totally a people problem, but that is what happens when you expand the people that play the format. This format has changed drastically since 2011. It went from a Judge format and established playgroups to mainstream. Some people call this 100 card vintage which isn't true because the cards that define vintage are banned. 100 card legacy is maybe better, but tiny leaders is much more that case. This is the infinite combo, time stretch format now. Those guys outnumber the rest of us and the RC has their heads in the sand over it.

Yet, the RC banned Eroyo. Under the guise of not letting competitive stuff influence it, that should never have happened. They are very inconsistent, and this rule is out of touch with the mainstream appeal of the format. This is a format where people get drunk on power a lot. We can preach social contracts of drinking responsibly, but it isn't going to happen. Why are there tons of pages discussing Prophet and this is the change they made? They are out of touch with the reality of a format where WOTC is printing spell crumple and Prossh.


Unless you are primarily a Magic Online player, I just don't buy this. I would imagine you could claim the majority of younger players are "drunk on power," and sure, in some areas those are the majority of players that play at local game stores. This does not mean they are a majority of players. Even this message board does not represent the majority of players, as younger players are more likely to be active than older, and more competitive players are more likely to be active than the casual. Demographics is a thing, and needs to be in your thoughts before you claim broad assumptions like you are wont to do.

Even your Prophet point is moot, the thread is long because it is a discussion, with people on both sides. As a counter point, out of a couple hundred decks through playgroups locally, I know of zero Prophets being played.

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 Post subject: Re: obsidiandice on Tuck
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-05 10:16 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-15 2:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Denver, CO
Matt wrote:
It is totally a people problem, but that is what happens when you expand the people that play the format. This format has changed drastically since 2011. It went from a Judge format and established playgroups to mainstream. Some people call this 100 card vintage which isn't true because the cards that define vintage are banned. 100 card legacy is maybe better, but tiny leaders is much more that case. This is the infinite combo, time stretch format now. Those guys outnumber the rest of us and the RC has their heads in the sand over it.


I don't know where you're getting this impression. I make an effort to play Commander at a lot of different game stores and tournaments across the US, and find that fun casual games far outnumber spiky, developed metas.

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 Post subject: Re: obsidiandice on Tuck
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-05 1:04 pm 

Joined: 2014-Dec-16 6:04 am
Age: Drake
obsidiandice wrote:
Matt wrote:
It is totally a people problem, but that is what happens when you expand the people that play the format. This format has changed drastically since 2011. It went from a Judge format and established playgroups to mainstream. Some people call this 100 card vintage which isn't true because the cards that define vintage are banned. 100 card legacy is maybe better, but tiny leaders is much more that case. This is the infinite combo, time stretch format now. Those guys outnumber the rest of us and the RC has their heads in the sand over it.


I don't know where you're getting this impression. I make an effort to play Commander at a lot of different game stores and tournaments across the US, and find that fun casual games far outnumber spiky, developed metas.


Jaws seems to have the problems I do, but maybe it is more localized. I don't view these guys as spikey or developed metas. They just like going crazy in this space. They are adults with good jobs but don't have a lot of financial responsibility. They have foil decks full of expensive cards and want games to end in 30 mins or less. They can all outspend me by an order of 10 so if I was a suit at WOTC, these are the guys I'd be marketing to in the Commander space. That seems like a conflict for you on the RC because they all have foil time stretches and like to cast them as much as possible.

My friends that have moved run into the same problem in other markets. The only place I've heard of with a really good environment is around Ft. Hood, but the guys there worked really hard to make it happen. They'd use points systems to run off people that want to mow everyone down quickly and not care about the loss of that person's sales because keeping a friendly game equaled better overall sales. Stores around here don't use point systems well. If anything, they promote killing everyone quickly.

Maybe my experience is overly affected by the military influence around me and the folks I know? I don't think that is the case as the guys with the expensive, fast paced decks aren't in the military.


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 Post subject: Re: obsidiandice on Tuck
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-05 3:03 pm 

Joined: 2015-Mar-24 3:32 pm
Age: Drake
Matt wrote:
obsidiandice wrote:
Matt wrote:
It is totally a people problem, but that is what happens when you expand the people that play the format. This format has changed drastically since 2011. It went from a Judge format and established playgroups to mainstream. Some people call this 100 card vintage which isn't true because the cards that define vintage are banned. 100 card legacy is maybe better, but tiny leaders is much more that case. This is the infinite combo, time stretch format now. Those guys outnumber the rest of us and the RC has their heads in the sand over it.


I don't know where you're getting this impression. I make an effort to play Commander at a lot of different game stores and tournaments across the US, and find that fun casual games far outnumber spiky, developed metas.


Jaws seems to have the problems I do, but maybe it is more localized. I don't view these guys as spikey or developed metas. They just like going crazy in this space. They are adults with good jobs but don't have a lot of financial responsibility. They have foil decks full of expensive cards and want games to end in 30 mins or less. They can all outspend me by an order of 10 so if I was a suit at WOTC, these are the guys I'd be marketing to in the Commander space. That seems like a conflict for you on the RC because they all have foil time stretches and like to cast them as much as possible.

My friends that have moved run into the same problem in other markets. The only place I've heard of with a really good environment is around Ft. Hood, but the guys there worked really hard to make it happen. They'd use points systems to run off people that want to mow everyone down quickly and not care about the loss of that person's sales because keeping a friendly game equaled better overall sales. Stores around here don't use point systems well. If anything, they promote killing everyone quickly.

Maybe my experience is overly affected by the military influence around me and the folks I know? I don't think that is the case as the guys with the expensive, fast paced decks aren't in the military.
no... that sounds about right...
the ones with the $1000usd+ decks are typically the ones with more money than sense.
that or 20 year vets of the hobby.
in my area we have 3 metas. And the only ones complaining about the new tuck rule are the hyper competitives. The ones whose decks are affected the least by this change.


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 Post subject: Re: obsidiandice on Tuck
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-06 12:44 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Damian Magecraft wrote:
the ones with the $1000usd+ decks are typically the ones with more money than sense.


Some of us have $1000+ decks just because we've been playing magic forever.. I don't spend all that much money on magic these days, yet my commander decks are all rather expensive, simply because I have a large enough collection that if I want something, I can trade for it.

Damian Magecraft wrote:
in my area we have 3 metas. And the only ones complaining about the new tuck rule are the hyper competitives. The ones whose decks are affected the least by this change.

I've noticed it's mostly the people who are most invested in the format who resent the change... and yeah, I think I might be more about resenting change then anything else. I was quite annoyed at first, but that had more to do with the terrible explanation for the changes then the changes themselves. Now that better explanations have been given, and I've actually played with the changes, I'm rather indifferent to them. Yes, it changes the effectiveness of a few cards that were previously staples, but people adjust.

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: obsidiandice on Tuck
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-06 2:51 am 
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Joined: 2006-Dec-31 12:26 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
kaldare wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
the ones with the $1000usd+ decks are typically the ones with more money than sense.


Some of us have $1000+ decks just because we've been playing magic forever.. I don't spend all that much money on magic these days, yet my commander decks are all rather expensive, simply because I have a large enough collection that if I want something, I can trade for it.

You know -- his very next line was "that or 20 year vets of the hobby." ... which you seemed to argue against him for the part of his post you quoted, but also agree with his next line which you seemed to have missed.


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 Post subject: Re: obsidiandice on Tuck
AgePosted: 2015-Apr-06 4:13 am 

Joined: 2015-Mar-24 3:32 pm
Age: Drake
Carthain wrote:
kaldare wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:
the ones with the $1000usd+ decks are typically the ones with more money than sense.


Some of us have $1000+ decks just because we've been playing magic forever.. I don't spend all that much money on magic these days, yet my commander decks are all rather expensive, simply because I have a large enough collection that if I want something, I can trade for it.

You know -- his very next line was "that or 20 year vets of the hobby." ... which you seemed to argue against him for the part of his post you quoted, but also agree with his next line which you seemed to have missed.

meh...
Its called cherry picking for a fight.
you get used to it.
I just ignore it and move on.


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