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 Post subject: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 7:31 am 
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Joined: 2011-May-02 11:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I had this pop up on MTGO, and I wasn't sure if it behaved correctly.

I had Soul Sculptor and Windborn Muse when a player tried to Rend Spirit my Muse.
I then tried to protect it with the Sculptor, and it still died.
The card image didn't still say 'Spirit' anywhere, it just said 'Enchantment', so I thought this would save it.

Was I wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 7:43 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
The_Dr_B wrote:
I had this pop up on MTGO, and I wasn't sure if it behaved correctly.

I had Soul Sculptor and Windborn Muse when a player tried to Rend Spirit my Muse.
I then tried to protect it with the Sculptor, and it still died.
The card image didn't still say 'Spirit' anywhere, it just said 'Enchantment', so I thought this would save it.

Was I wrong?

I'm pretty certain that's a fail on the part MTGO. Soul Sculptor's Gatherer rulings show this:

Quote:
10/4/2004: The creature stops being a creature (or any other permanent type) and is just an enchantment with no abilities.
4/1/2008: A "creature spell" is any spell with the type Creature, even if it has other types such as Artifact or Enchantment. Older cards of type Summon are also Creature spells.

This seems like pretty clear evidence the Windborn Muse is no longer a creature whenever Rend Spirit tries to resolve, which means it becomes an illegal target upon resolution of the spell and the spell is countered.

EDIT: and who the heck plays Rend Spirit anyway??

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 7:50 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Yes. That is a MODO bug. "Spirit" is not an enchantment subtype, so Muse will lose it.

Also, who runs Rend Spirit?!

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 7:52 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
crokaycete wrote:
Also, who runs Rend Spirit?!

People that want to kill Windborn Muse?

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 8:07 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
i used to run it in my 5 colour spirit combo deck, but only to kill my own legendary dragons to make them proc. Rend Flesh was a 4 off of course but the rend spirit was a 2 off. (I didn't realise there were awesome sac lands at that time that would serve a better purpose)

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 8:17 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
crokaycete is correct. Relevant rule below:
205.1a.
Some effects set an object's card type. In such cases, the new card type(s) replaces any existing card types. Counters, effects, and damage marked on the object remain with it, even if they are meaningless to the new card type. Similarly, when an effect sets one or more of an object's subtypes, the new subtype(s) replaces any existing subtypes from the appropriate set (creature types, land types, artifact types, enchantment types, planeswalker types, or spell types). If an object's card type is removed, the subtypes correlated with that card type will remain if they are also the subtypes of a card type the object currently has; otherwise, they are also removed for the entire time the object's card type is removed. Removing an object's subtype doesn't affect its card types at all.


I'm guessing MTGO doesn't actually remove creature subtypes when something becomes a non-creature, but people don't normally notice because it basically never comes up.

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My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 9:03 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
It's actually very relevant in BNG limited because of the interaction between Raised by Wolves and Nyxborn Wolf not being a Wolf when bestowed.

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 9:22 am 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
I play Rend Spirit and Eyeblight's Ending. They're pretty versatile.... or were until Murder and Hero's demise were printed.

EDIT: take that back... I play Rend Flesh... I need to read better.

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 10:40 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
crokaycete wrote:
It's actually very relevant in BNG limited because of the interaction between Raised by Wolves and Nyxborn Wolf not being a Wolf when bestowed.

Just curious, does that interaction work correctly?

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 11:10 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I don't think it's on MODO yet. But it's definitely not a Wolf when it's an Aura in paper Magic.

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 11:50 am 
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Joined: 2013-May-29 9:57 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Atlanta, GA
MTGO be buggin' all the time. I remember there was this one time right after Theros where Agent of the Fates' heroic trigger was proccing off ANY players spells OR abilities. He jumped up to 25 tickets for like two days before they fixed it.

Another one was after Dragon's Maze was released, Council of the Absolute would allow you to name any card, including creatures and lands. That one took a week to fix.

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 Post subject: Re: Weird Soul Sculptor Question
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 12:55 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
Some bugs turn into griefer outlets. I don't know how it happens but I once was in a game that went:

One guy: Thieves' Auction
Me: Sigh, what a time waste.

Auction starts to resolve. First player drops. Spell stops resolving, all permanents remain exiled.

(or something like that, this was years ago)

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