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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-03 8:15 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Mar-08 1:27 am
Age: Wyvern
Tim Proctor wrote:
papa_funk wrote:
DudeItsCorey wrote:
The Committee is full of Blue Mages and Hate Green Mages.


Trying to think of any member of the RC who is primarily a Blue mage. Ban-Ki Moon, maybe?

You all are, you subjugate people cause your hearts are full of hate. I demand color equallity and demand that this color profiling stops. Oh and the slurs used by the RC need to stop, it is not okay to call green mages 'leafsnoots'.


Leafsnoots UNITE!

As a green mage I demand more bannings to equalize the colors! Survival of the Fittest! Ban it! But seriously, that thing is busted.

It does seem like there's a which hunt for the best green cards, and while I agree that sylvan should probably be banned, I can still think of things that are far more broken or oppressive. Just because green is experiencing some whacky color bleed doesn't mean other things can't be banned too.

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Build your deck brick by brick or the wolf's gonna blow it down.



My goal is to make every color deck that could possibly contain green. It's a work in progress, and still not a single tooth and nail (I consider that a win)


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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-06 2:20 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-02 10:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
DudeItsCorey wrote:
I get the power level of Primetime and Sylvan P. But how are those banned and Conx Sphinx is left to run rampant?

Silencer wrote:
Yeah, and they banned trade secrets which I never probably seen broken. I hardly ever saw that play. It's a fair draw 4 opp draws 2, unless you're playing against a moron or he has an instant combo which he wants to draw


The mistake you guys are making is thinking that cards are banned for power level. If they were the banned list whould be huge since the format is inheritly broken.

Sheldon wrote:
The Banned List for Commander is designed not to balance competitive play, but to help shape in the minds of its fans the vision held by its founders and Rules Committee. That vision is to create variable, interactive, and epic multiplayer games where memories are made


If you really want to know the reasoning behind all this "weird and illogical behaviour" of the RC, you can do so here.

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Teneb, the Harvester
Heartless Hidetsugu
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Reaper King
Ruhan of the Fomori
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Ol
oro, Ageless Ascetic
Roon of the Hidden Realm
Nekusar, the Mindrazer



Sapling of Colfenor
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Niv-Mizzet the Firemind
Ghost Council of Orzhova
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary



Child of Alara
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Rith, the Awakener
Brion Stoutarm
Experiment Kraj
Razia, Boros Archangel
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Wort, Bogart Auntie
Kaalia of the Vast
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls


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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-06 11:31 am 

Joined: 2013-Feb-03 7:15 am
Age: Drake
Aggro_zombies wrote:
Man, where were all these people complaining about how the RC is all blue mages when they banned Academy, Tinker, and Gifts?


Heck, an improved banlist hitting the most egregious problem cards throughout most of the 10+ playgroups I've been in (this has been discussed a lot in my most recent playgroups, as it should) utilizing the criteria that the RC claims to use would unban Painter's Servant and ban:

2 white cards (Humility, Serra Ascendant)
5 blue cards (Consecrated Sphinx, Deadeye Navigator, Mana Drain, Palinchron, Power Artifact)
4 black cards (Demonic Tutor, Imperial Seal, Necropotence, Vampiric Tutor)
1 red card (Worldgorger Dragon)
5 green cards (Earthcraft, Gaea's Cradle, Hermit Druid, Oath of Druids, Survival of the Fittest)
9 colorless cards (Ancient Tomb, Crucible of Worlds, Grindstone, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Mishra's Workshop, Sol Ring, Strip Mine, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale)

Note the equal number of blue and green cards.

And looking at the current ban list, how many blue cards and how many green cards are on there? Oh hey, 10 blue cards counting Erayo and Coalition Victory and 8 green cards counting Rofellos and Coalition Victory. Nope, clearly green is hit much much worse than blue by the current ban list.

The current ban list counting Generals is 40 cards long. Given the sheer number of cards legal in the format and the higher number of possibilities in what is supposed to be a slower, more casual multiplayer field, the ban list really should be longer.

That said, I support the current ban list to some degree, and agree with the ban of Sylvan Primordial for the sake of variety in the format and less unpleasant games. I do not think that the RC has done the best job that they possibly could. But I also do not think that they have done a bad job, or even not a good job.


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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-06 4:00 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
osieorb18 wrote:
2 white cards (Humility, Serra Ascendant)
5 blue cards (Consecrated Sphinx, Deadeye Navigator, Mana Drain, Palinchron, Power Artifact)
4 black cards (Demonic Tutor, Imperial Seal, Necropotence, Vampiric Tutor)
1 red card (Worldgorger Dragon)
5 green cards (Earthcraft, Gaea's Cradle, Hermit Druid, Oath of Druids, Survival of the Fittest)
9 colorless cards (Ancient Tomb, Crucible of Worlds, Grindstone, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Mishra's Workshop, Sol Ring, Strip Mine, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale)


The vast majority of those cards are generally not problematic, and most certainly do not fit the RC's criteria. I was going to go card by card, but your list is just too ridiculous to justify that. I'll just list a few point:
*Cards don't, and shouldn't, get banned in this format just because they act as part of a combo. Trying to regulate combo simply can't be done without wreaking the format, and the RC has chosen (wisely), to not start down that rabbit's hole.

*Expensive cards aren't banned just for being expensive. They have to also be universally powerful enough that, if they were worth a dime, they'd be in the vast majority of decks that could play them. This applies to all the power that's banned, and to Library. It does not in any way apply to, say, Tabernacle, Mana Drain, Workshop, or Seal.

*Cards aren't banned for being efficient tutors.

*They aren't banned for accelerating by a couple of mana either, even if they're really good at it.

*Crucible of Worlds? What? Are you crack? In what world are you living? I can't even imagine your justification for that one.


The only cards that even deserve scrutiny, IMHO, are Deadeye, Cradle, and Survival.

Survival, because it makes every game it comes down identical, the exact same way Gifts Ungiven did. It should have been banned long ago.
Dead-eye because it tends to wreak games regardless of it's owner's intentions, and it sees a rather high level of play. People do tend to learn quickly what it does, so maybe social pressure keeps it under control in most places. It does in my group, but I've also seen plenty of groups it has done bad things to. I'm on the fence on this one... I wouldn't mind a ban at all, but I'm not sure it's actually needed.
Cradle, because it's incredibly ubiquitous and is getting more and more expensive. I don't think it's expensive enough to require a ban, yet. But it merits attention, and all it takes is another Legacy deck wanting it (Or Elves going on a winning streak), and it could $250.

_________________
Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-06 4:23 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
@osieorb: Have you ever tried playing with the Duel Commander ban list?

It seems like it'd be more likely to deliver the experience you're looking for.

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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-06 5:28 pm 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
kaldare wrote:
What? Are you crack?
So, I miss words all the time when I type. (ALL the time. In nearly every post.) But this one is hilarious to me.

Osieorb, stop ruining the lives of the residents of our inner cities and funding gang warfare. Just cut it out. I'm serious.

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Spectrar Ghost wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-06 7:02 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
humility? Ruining games? Really!? I literally cannot imagine how that is possible.

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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-06 7:43 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-16 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
niheloim wrote:
humility? Ruining games? Really!? I literally cannot imagine how that is possible.

Player 1 has Inflated Ego
Player 2 plays Humility
Player 1 realizes he isn't god's gift to the game and concedes.


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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-06 10:33 pm 

Joined: 2013-Feb-03 7:15 am
Age: Drake
This list was mainly based off of discussion with people in my current metagame. It's not something that necessarily should apply to every group.

Kemev: In my group's discussion, the french ban list is one thing we have looked at for reference. There are several people in the group that specifically have french decks.

kaldare wrote:
The vast majority of those cards are generally not problematic, and most certainly do not fit the RC's criteria.


That's a matter of opinion, but I'll agree to disagree.


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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-06 10:54 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
Its not opinion actually. Most of the cards listed are not generally problematic.

Many of them can be obnoxious or sometimes pernicious, but that's not the general state for them.

Same applies to fitting the criteria for banning.

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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 4:48 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
niheloim wrote:
Its not opinion actually. Most of the cards listed are not generally problematic.
That's exactly what an opinion about them would be. The opposite of opinion would be fact.

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sir squab wrote:
My... history of buying Magic cards is probably a tapestry of bad financial decisions >_>
niheloim wrote:
No, I think he's right. I'm just all butt-hurt over prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-07 5:02 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
What?

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 Post subject: Re: SP gone so when do I get back PT
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-08 7:39 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Tim Proctor wrote:
niheloim wrote:
humility? Ruining games? Really!? I literally cannot imagine how that is possible.

Player 1 has Inflated Ego
Player 2 plays Humility
Player 1 realizes he isn't god's gift to the game and concedes.

Player 1 responds with Cognitive Dissonance, realizes Player 2 is holding him back and is unworthy of playing in the presence of such a true master of Magic, the Gathering, thus Player 1 has no choice but to leave these low-lifes behind and picks up his cards and leaves the table, still considering it a victory in his mind.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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