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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-19 11:43 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-18 9:17 am
Age: Drake
Location: Luna
tarnar wrote:
I have no reason to believe it would be banned at 4WW.


The effect is just as broken. It's a wrath, plus discard, plus land balancing. The effect as a sorcery is flat out OP. Even at 4WW it would be overpowered.


Sek'Kuar wrote:
balance is not good enough to ban...it's a group format... you wreck other peoples hands and boards yes but what are you going to do with your wrecked hand and board.... you would have to win faster then anyone else finding an answer... just not good enough in my opinion...unban it it's a FUN card to play with and the point of the format is to have FUN


EXACTLY!

Yes its a wrath, so is wrath. Yes its potentiall a mind twist and an armageddon.

But, best case scenario:

You have no cards in hand, Zuran orb and 15 land. You float your mana, sac your lands and cast your balance. What general are you gonna play that wins before someone can recover and kill it?

Next turn any opponent can drop a plains and stp it. Worst case scenario your opponent can play swamp and Innocent Blood.

The larger the game the larger the chance of someone playing a blocker.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-19 12:05 pm 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Simon Jester wrote:
What general are you gonna play that wins before someone can recover and kill it?


Zur, ya noob! I...already told joo dat! *yeish*

Edit: Feel free to argue the point, but it's just your inexperience that's leading you to believe you can recover from no lands, no cards and zur on the board. It won't happen, and if it does you're a cheatyface bastard.


Last edited by warble on 2009-Mar-19 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-19 12:07 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-11 9:29 pm
Age: Drake
Location: duluth
oh yeah thats right... zur+balance=win.. your right i forgot the rulings on that auto-win con.. thanx for pointing that out


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-19 3:27 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
Simon Jester wrote:
tarnar wrote:
I have no reason to believe it would be banned at 4WW.

The effect is just as broken. It's a wrath, plus discard, plus land balancing. The effect as a sorcery is flat out OP. Even at 4WW it would be overpowered.

No, it would be MUCH MUCH harder to abuse because you'd have to commit more land to the board or you wouldn't be able to play it soon after another sweeper effect or you wouldn't be able to play it at the end of another set of plays or back it up with control spells or anything.

Balance is broken because it says '1W' in the corner. That makes manipulating the 'symmetry' significantly easier.

I maintain that a 4WW version of this spell would not be banned.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-19 6:48 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-28 12:17 am
Age: Drake
Location: Massachusetts
tarnar wrote:
I have no reason to believe it would be banned at 4WW.


That's not really relevant. Balancing Act isn't banned, and it's a 2WW Balance variant that could be pretty competitive.

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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-20 8:56 am 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
RobPro wrote:
That's not really relevant. Balancing Act isn't banned, and it's a 2WW Balance variant that could be pretty competitive.

I think it's very relevant. Balancing Act is fixed, both cost-wise and mechanic-wise. Balancing Act says 'permanents & hands', Balance says 'lands, creatures & hands'. I can play Balance and end up with permanents on the table while you have none. I can't do that with Balancing Act.

Still, I don't think the Balance mechanic is too broken for EDH. It's the cost. That's the point I'm trying to make when I say a 4WW Balance would most likely be legal in EDH.

Balance at 1W is the problem.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-20 9:12 am 
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Joined: 2008-Apr-15 9:42 am
Age: Drake
Location: Waterloo, ON
I'm still doubtful how seriously broken this card is.
It's not much worse than any other board clearing effect, even though the caster could work itself to an advantage.
My question now becomes, what kind of deck would really abuse it?
I may want to run it in my Hanna deck, or a Zur deck could use it to their advantage. But I can't see it doing THAT much.
Everything in this thread is hypotheticals.
Let's see some solid concepts as to why it should remain banned.

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Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed; Wort, Boggart Auntie; Jhoira of the Ghitu; Multani, Maro-Sorcerer; Rafiq of the Many; Heartless Hidetsugu; Wort, the Raidmother; Braids, Cabal Minion; Vendillion Clique; Captain Sisay;


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-20 9:13 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
It's definitely the cost. 1W is just way too little. At 1W, it can end the game early. At 2WW, there is more time to provide a reasonable response/defense.

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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-20 11:07 am 

Joined: 2008-Jan-25 8:26 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Calgary
Zur and Rafiq decks will happily play Balance. Equipment and enchantments on the board are staying there.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-20 11:13 am 

Joined: 2009-Mar-19 5:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
Simon Jester wrote:
Who casts Balance on turn 1? Or turn 2?


The guy who suspended a Greater Gargadon.


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-20 1:39 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-11 9:29 pm
Age: Drake
Location: duluth
gargadon will not win a group game all by himself.. unless your opp all draw nothing i guess...


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AgePosted: 2009-Mar-20 4:49 pm 

Joined: 2009-Mar-19 5:01 pm
Age: Wyvern
Sek'Kuar wrote:
gargadon will not win a group game all by himself.. unless your opp all draw nothing i guess...


Yes, and after a nice big splurge that empties your hand, nothing is what they'll have. Gargadon with 5 suspend counters vs people with 0 creatures, 0 land and 0 cards will take at least two players out of the game before it can be stopped.


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-02 2:54 pm 

Joined: 2007-Dec-11 9:29 pm
Age: Drake
Location: duluth
i own balance.. i've played with balance if every format it was legal in.. never once did balance force my opp to NOT EVER DRAW for the rest of the game.. how bad are the decks in your area where you go balance...i win....


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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-02 3:52 pm 
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Sek'Kuar wrote:
i own balance.. i've played with balance if every format it was legal in.. never once did balance force my opp to NOT EVER DRAW for the rest of the game.. how bad are the decks in your area where you go balance...i win....


I am in this boat. Board wipers are prevalent enough that you should be able to recover from them, whether they come out on turn 2 or turn 10. The only difference between balance wiping everything on turn 1 or turn 10 is that there are fewer resources left in your deck to recover with.

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AgePosted: 2009-Apr-02 5:28 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jan-08 10:10 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Colorado
balance is way too undercosted for EDH. its insanely good, and a format where balance is in every white deck would just be unfun


Last edited by Crescent Fresh on 2009-Apr-03 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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