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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-11 8:02 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-11 7:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
WBC wrote:
Is there any chance for this card to be unbanned?

It has been on the banned list for years and I have never seen a coherent reason to unban it. I would seriously doubt it.

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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-11 8:03 am 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
WBC wrote:
Is there any chance for this card to be unbanned?


I'm hoping not and inclined to say not likely.


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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-11 10:16 am 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-25 1:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
WBC wrote:
Is there any chance for this card to be unbanned?

This will (fortunately) never happen. And if you read this entire thread, you will understand why that is. No more arguments are needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-11 11:38 am 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
No spoilers for the next announcement, but I wouldn't run out and buy bunch of foil Upheavals.

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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-11 12:29 pm 
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Joined: 2010-May-09 10:39 am
Age: Elder Dragon
You don't need a magical Christmas land scenario for Upheaval to be silly.
If you're in hard blue (UU is there) you may be playing Sol Ring, Mana Vault and so on. Since you are also in blue, you can be a dirty lowdown junkyard dog and Mystical Tutor for Windfall or Time Spiral or Time Reverasl or if you're really rich? Drop a Chains of Mephistopheles in between your draw spells.

If your opponents lose all their lands and so on, you keep whatever, it's going to get ugly in a hurry.

In short:
1)Gives a massive advantage to active player;
2)Completely uniteractive;
3)Isn't "Fun" in the way some big spells are.

And it's not really comparable to Obliterate since Oblit leaves certain peramanents on the board and leaves your hand "stable" instead of having you pick 2-3 lands and stuff and binning the rest.
Obliterate isn't even that good these days, tbh. I see it in Jhoira and it's eh, whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-11 11:04 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Upheaval--4UU
Sorcery

Destroy all the fun. It can't be regenerated.

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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-12 11:39 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-12 11:02 am
Age: Egg
Long time lurker, chipping in from the competitive side of multiplayer edh, you typically never get to those kinds of mana where you can cast Upheval and float mana. It is too slow agains HD, Doomsday, Imperial Animar and similar kinds of combos, it's decent agains UGx, and other big mana decks, most of the time a 6 mana timewalk, and great agains Stax and Zur (assuming you ever get to 6 mana), as they tend to bloat up the board pretty well. It is kind of Cyclonic Rift 2 in blue based control decks. But as I think has been amply explained herein this thread, should probably stay banned, given the RC's zero care about competitive edh.


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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-13 7:08 am 

Joined: 2013-Feb-03 7:15 am
Age: Drake
[Rule 4]

- BKM


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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 11:34 am 

Joined: 2013-Mar-15 8:39 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Canada, Ontario
Stonepwny wrote:
Perhaps this is a stupid question but why is Upheaval banned?


It's ok they don't know about Radiate + "return target permanent" cards = make shift upheaval.

-Jhoira player, "I'll suspend boomerang"
-everyone else, "ok..."
-Jhoira player, "I'll now suspend a whole bunch of scary creatures after suspending boomerang"
-everyone else, "sure we can deal with them"
-Jhoira player, "I'll cast boomerang for free and spend only 5 mana on it to radiate it and turn it into a make shift upheaval"
-everyone else, "*insert all the curse words here*"
-Jhoira player, "Hey look my scary creatures come out and you have no board state *STOMP*"



Also reality strobe+radiate if you don't have Jhoira and want to get it out quicker.


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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-18 5:16 pm 
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Joined: 2011-May-04 9:09 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Saskatchewan
Bull wrote:
Stonepwny wrote:
Perhaps this is a stupid question but why is Upheaval banned?


It's ok they don't know about Radiate + "return target permanent" cards = make shift upheaval.

-Jhoira player, "I'll suspend boomerang"
-everyone else, "ok..."
-Jhoira player, "I'll now suspend a whole bunch of scary creatures after suspending boomerang"
-everyone else, "sure we can deal with them"
-Jhoira player, "I'll cast boomerang for free and spend only 5 mana on it to radiate it and turn it into a make shift upheaval"
-everyone else, "*insert all the curse words here*"
-Jhoira player, "Hey look my scary creatures come out and you have no board state *STOMP*"



Also reality strobe+radiate if you don't have Jhoira and want to get it out quicker.


And then the opposing Edric player casts Simic Charm, or remove's Boomerang's target, thus countering both spells. If a person wants to ban every simulated combination of a card that is banned, we would all end up playing with Squire's and Storm Crow's, except that Islands might be banned.

If a person wants to go out of their way to create a constant need to win, that is their prerogative. I'm pretty sure I've read in a few places that some cards on the banned list are meant to be a leading example of cards that do not contribute to a social, interactive game and are advised to be avoided.


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 Post subject: Re: Upheaval?
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-19 9:23 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-02 10:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Bull wrote:
Stonepwny wrote:
Perhaps this is a stupid question but why is Upheaval banned?


It's ok they don't know about Radiate + "return target permanent" cards = make shift upheaval.

-Jhoira player, "I'll suspend boomerang"
-everyone else, "ok..."
-Jhoira player, "I'll now suspend a whole bunch of scary creatures after suspending boomerang"
-everyone else, "sure we can deal with them"
-Jhoira player, "I'll cast boomerang for free and spend only 5 mana on it to radiate it and turn it into a make shift upheaval"
-everyone else, "*insert all the curse words here*"
-Jhoira player, "Hey look my scary creatures come out and you have no board state *STOMP*


1) The unfun part of this list is Jhoira. No one ever says "I had this one game where the Jhoira player used her ability in a really interesting way that was fun for everyone"
2) It's not the effect that's banned, it's the overpowered card.

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