Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Oct-18 7:51 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Fairness of the General Rule
AgePosted: 2008-Apr-29 3:57 am 

Joined: 2008-Apr-29 3:37 am
Age: Egg
I'm knew to EDH and as I am a big fan of Highlander (I've written the "Singular Format" article on www.magicthegathering.com a while back trying to drum up interest in it. Link is: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/393).

I've been playing EDH for a month or so now and I have some concerns about how broken the format is in regard to the general rule. Here's two simple examples:

Merieke Ri Berit
Legendary Creature-Human
WUB 1/1

Merieke Ri Berit doesn't untap during your untap step.
T Gain control of target creature as long as you control Merieke Ri Berit. When Merieke Ri Berit leaves play or becomes untapped, destroy that creature. It can't be regenerated.


By turn 3, you can pull out Merieke, steal your opponent's creatures and with an untap effect, you can easily eat away at your opponent's forces. If Merieke is put into the graveyard (my understanding of the rules) is that she goes to the removed from game area and then for WUB plus 2 she's back at it. To set the tempo by turn 3 to make her so easy to cast and bring back seems to go against what EDH was trying to do.

Here's some craziness with Merieke that you can do:

Play Merieke, then Blasting Station and Fool's Demise on one of your opponents creatures. Steal your opponent's best creature with Merieke, play Fool's Demise on that creature and keep attacking with it. When the stolen creature is in danger of dying, sack it to the Blasting Station, untap Merike, allow Fool's Demise to bring the creature back to your control and then the Demise goes back to your hand. At this point, you'll have Merieke untapped, a Fool's Demise in hand to use again and your opponent's creature on your side. Breaking this lock is nearly impossible as the general rule allows Merieke to be played again and again.

Here's another legend that is a bit nuts for a general:


Eladamri, Lord of Leaves

Legendary Creature - Elf Warrior 2/2, GG
Other Elf creatures have forestwalk.
Other Elves have shroud.

On turn 2, Eladamri is out and he gives all the elves in your elf deck shroud and forestwalk. If he dies, at only GG, he'll easily be back in the game time and time again. In an elf deck, how hard would it be to generate GG plus 2 to get him back? Or even GG plus 4?

What I am seeing in the EDH general rules are loopholes that make the games less than fun. I would propose either a limit to the casting cost of a general so that only general with 5 or more converted mana could be played as there are a lot of weak (2/2 or 1/1) generals that aren't picked because they can do 21 points of damage but their abilities are strong.

I'd like to hear some feedback as to whether anyone has encountered similar broken generals and whether any discussions have been started to change this general rule to help balance the games. Thank you.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Apr-29 5:01 am 

Joined: 2007-Nov-22 8:50 am
Age: Wyvern
Good generals indeed but you don't take into account that Merieke has to survive a turn on the board before she can do her thing and that Eladamri does indeed protect all your Elves, but not from the plethora of boardsweepers available. Really troublesome creatures tend not to last long on the board and although these cheaper generals can be replayed more easily, after a few kills it's going to be much more difficult to keep churning them out, especially when you still have your deck to play out as well...

A good point but I don't think there is anything wrong with the general rule, especially as it's one of EDH's defining characteristics.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Apr-29 11:54 am 

Joined: 2008-Mar-23 8:22 pm
Age: Hatchling
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
The generals you reference are only really problematic in duals. In a proper multiplayer game it is hard for one general to really take down a whole table. The more enemy's you play against the worse your general gets especially if they cost +2 every time.

The one nice thing generals do that you are overlooking, is that if a game stalls out, that everyone has something to do (assuming they can play the cost). I've been in a lot of 3 player games where everyone ends up with an empty hand and a stalled board. In normal multiplayer these sorts of games can drag out for a while as just a top deck war, but in EDH everyone still has something to do so the game keeps moving and changing.

If you and your friends play mostly duals, and the cheaper generals are really distorting you play group, you could always institute a house rule where all generals under 5cc start at +2. That might solve some of the problems.

_________________
The most famous of all cycles, the Alpha "boons" were an attempt to define the colors.
Blue was defined as insanely powerful, and white was defined as timid.
Ten years later, we're still working on that.

-Mark Rosewater


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: EDH
AgePosted: 2008-Apr-29 6:51 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Jun-28 7:08 pm
Age: Drake
Congrats, you've discovered that the current EDH +2 mana per death rule heavily favors cheap generals! In fact, I summon Wort, the Raidmother in only about 25% of my games.

Merieke Ri Berit is the sickest thing ever with Thousand-Year Elixir, btw.

_________________
NorrYtt
Lead Designer - Worldwake
Lead Designer - Archenemy
Likely the designer of your EDH general


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fairness of the General Rule
AgePosted: 2008-Apr-29 8:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2006-May-09 8:05 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Mohan wrote:
Play Merieke, then Blasting Station and Fool's Demise on one of your opponents creatures. Steal your opponent's best creature with Merieke, play Fool's Demise on that creature and keep attacking with it. When the stolen creature is in danger of dying, sack it to the Blasting Station, untap Merike, allow Fool's Demise to bring the creature back to your control and then the Demise goes back to your hand.


This is already a four-card combo (you know that Merieke doesn't untap at all, right?).

If the Merieke player can get her in play, as well as some way to untap her, and not have either or both of them destroyed, that's half of the battle right there.

I've played against her- she's a decent general, but there's a number of generals who are a lot more powerful than her.

Quote:
On turn 2, Eladamri is out and he gives all the elves in your elf deck shroud and forestwalk. If he dies, at only GG, he'll easily be back in the game time and time again. In an elf deck, how hard would it be to generate GG plus 2 to get him back? Or even GG plus 4?


In typical multiplayer EDH play, Eladamri is not only not busted, but actually below average. His abilities are mediocre, and only become useful with a number of other creatures in play- a strategy that you'll find doomed to fail with the number of mass removal effects in the format. You opponents aren't going to be worried about forestwalking, shrouded elves. You are also severely handicapped with a mono-green deck.

It's great to hear what you think about the format. But, you may need to play it a bit more to get a good feel for what works well and what doesn't.

_________________
Level 2 Judge, Calgary, AB.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: