Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Aug-24 11:20 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 1:12 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-09 10:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Library of Leng
In magiccards.info it's stated that

Quote:
10/1/2009: If multiple effects modify your hand size, apply them in timestamp order. For example, if you put Null Profusion (an enchantment that says your maximum hand size is two) onto the battlefield and then put Library of Leng onto the battlefield, you'll have no maximum hand size. However, if those permanents entered the battlefield in the opposite order, your maximum hand size would be two."


But the card doesn't say "you have no maximum hand size". It says "Skip your draw step" so even if your hand size would be 0, you wouldn't have to discard since you skip your discard step entirely. Am i right?
Also, if i put Jin-Gitaxias on the battlefield and an opponent has a Reliquary Tower under their control, by the logic stated above, does jin-gitaxias' effect replace the "no maximum hand size" or do they overlap?

_________________
Teeka's Dragon + Grafted Exoskeleton + Magebane Armor + Lure is my personal favorite combo.
Current decks: Child of Alara Tribal Enchantment Deck
Soon to be: Mishra's Double Donger Artifact Steal Deck


Last edited by Temennigru on 2012-Sep-27 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 1:15 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Sadly, you are incorrect. If you click on the autocard link and read the oracle text, you will see the library has been oracled to "you have no maximum hand size."

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 1:18 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-09 10:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Sadly, you are incorrect. If you click on the autocard link and read the oracle text, you will see the library has been oracled to "you have no maximum hand size."

The problem with that is this
Quote:
Oracle text is a database of the "modern wordings" (what the cards would say if we printed them today) of every tournament-legal card ever printed. These wordings are considered the official wordings of the cards by Wizards of the Coast and the DCI, and accurately reflect their functions. This often differs from printed text, especially on older cards. Oracle text differs from errata text in that it does not change the functionality of the card.


And this oracled text obviously changes the functionality of the card.

_________________
Teeka's Dragon + Grafted Exoskeleton + Magebane Armor + Lure is my personal favorite combo.
Current decks: Child of Alara Tribal Enchantment Deck
Soon to be: Mishra's Double Donger Artifact Steal Deck


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 1:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Jun-19 6:32 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
1) To answer your question about Jin + Tower, Jin's hand size reduction does nothing to a player who has no maximum hand size, regardless of which effect has the newer timestamp. You can't reduce something that doesn't exist.

2) There's no "discard phase" in the game to skip. There's the cleanup step at the very end of each turn, but because ending all "until end of turn" effects and such is also handled in the cleanup step, Library of Leng would cause your Giant Growth to last until the end of the next player's turn, which is obviously not the card's intended function. "You have no maximum hand size" is functionally identical to how the card was meant to be, and has been, played.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 2:48 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Filth wrote:
1) To answer your question about Jin + Tower, Jin's hand size reduction does nothing to a player who has no maximum hand size, regardless of which effect has the newer timestamp. You can't reduce something that doesn't exist.

The ruling he quoted from gatherer seems to contradict this statement.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 2:57 pm 
EDH Rules Committee
User avatar

Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Jin works differently than Null Profusion, since Null Profusion sets your hand size to a specific number, while Jin subtracts 7 from your current hand size. You can't subtract 7 from something that doesn't exist.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 4:38 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jan-23 11:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Ban Ki-moon wrote:
Jin works differently than Null Profusion, since Null Profusion sets your hand size to a specific number, while Jin subtracts 7 from your current hand size. You can't subtract 7 from something that doesn't exist.

You obv don't have kids.

Dad, can I have seven dollars? Sure honey.
Bank account is now -$7.

Only, it's never just seven dollars. :(

_________________
Spekter wrote:
niheloim wrote:
Aggravated Assault + Bear Umbra = My attempt to make my group move to ban Uril.
That's not ban-worthy, that's the spirit of EDH. Three-card combo involving the combat phase? Awesome.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 8:25 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Temennigru wrote:
The problem with that is this
Quote:
Oracle text is a database of the "modern wordings" (what the cards would say if we printed them today) of every tournament-legal card ever printed. These wordings are considered the official wordings of the cards by Wizards of the Coast and the DCI, and accurately reflect their functions. This often differs from printed text, especially on older cards. Oracle text differs from errata text in that it does not change the functionality of the card.
And this oracled text obviously changes the functionality of the card.
The Oracle text also includes any issued errata, so whatever the Oracle says is the current, official, accurate wording of any card.

_________________
Useful threads: Colorless CI landsGraveyard HateRoR's Greatest Hits
My Decks: Zombiepocalypse (Thraximundar) ♦ Thrun stands alone (voltron) ♦ Ashling the Burninator ♦ Doran beatdown (treefolk/plant tribal) ♦ Mine! (UB theft/clone) ♦ Vampire Beatdown (Edgar Markov) ♦ BW Enchantments (Daxos the Returned)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 10:38 pm 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Your "discard phase" no longer exists. You discard down to your maximum hand size as a turn-based action at the start of your cleanup step. Thus, "Skip your discard phase" is a nonsense command in modern magic. The way you keep your 20 card hand is by modifying hand size instead.

_________________
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Cryocerete (sp?)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about Library of Leng
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-28 12:25 am 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Ban Ki-moon wrote:
Jin works differently than Null Profusion, since Null Profusion sets your hand size to a specific number, while Jin subtracts 7 from your current hand size. You can't subtract 7 from something that doesn't exist.


Huh, I read it differently, but with the same result; I interpret "I have no maximum hand size" to mean "I may have an infinite number of cards in my hand". Mr Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur comes along and says "Dude, you get to have seven less cards in your hand!" To which I shrug and say "Damn!, you mean I may now only have an infinite number of cards in my hand? Sucks to be you, I guess..." Until my Reliquary tower gets strip mined, and my Library of Leng with Venser's Journal are return to dust.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: