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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 4:18 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Tim Proctor wrote:
But does that mean some cards need to be unbanned? What cards on the current ban list are abusive to the format (like the Ascendant) that are banned? Kukopuffs was but has been unbanned (glad to see it banned as a Commander), Coalition Victory?

You know those people who say T&N should be banned because poop heads use it as an intsa win? Well, Coalition Victory is the exact same, except it needs a little more setup, needs a 5-color deck, and has no legit uses. Coalition Victory isn't Felidar or Test of Endurance. You can't get rid of it unless you counter it, and the user doesn't need to keep the conditions right to the upkeep, they need the conditions right as long as it takes the spell to resolve. It's less climatic than "wrath, get a token from Myr Sire(or something else, this just came to my mind first), Biorhythm, win", which is often the punchline of "unfun situations involving banned card" jokes.

Also, with shocklands, duals, fetches, and all the basic land ramp, any well-built 5-color deck can usually win the first turn they're able to cast it, so long as they have their general out.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 4:26 pm 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
pookel wrote:
P.S. Scornful Egotist laughs at your paltry 6 mana.


Scornful Egotist is a bad ass. I play him in my Patron of the Moon deck and he's worth it every time.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 4:35 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-28 9:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Damidhol, Tuhel
Epsilon wrote:
pookel wrote:
P.S. Scornful Egotist laughs at your paltry 6 mana.


Scornful Egotist is a bad ass. I play him in my Patron of the Moon deck and he's worth it every time.


Plus he's really good with Homarid Spawning Bed. I dare someone to get that card banned!

_________________
Former StarCityGames.com writer.

Most famous article: Breaking Phage

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc ... Phage.html

Personal Favorite: pWN3D: Recollections of Spectacular Defeats in Multiplayer Magic

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/mult ... Magic.html


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 4:58 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Epsilon wrote:
pookel wrote:
P.S. Scornful Egotist laughs at your paltry 6 mana.


Scornful Egotist is a bad ass. I play him in my Patron of the Moon deck and he's worth it every time.

I play him in Animar. He really serves no purpose except to pwn with Birthing Pod.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-27 10:55 pm 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Tim Proctor wrote:
Yeah, Really... I'm directing the focus of the thread here on an examples of cards that clear abuse the game state values of EDH. I'm not saying that they need banned, I don't believe that they do, but I will tell you that a 6/6 lifelink, flying for 1 mana is not supposed to happen. Does it need banned, nope, not according to the small ban list mentality.

The small ban list mentality doesn't enter into it. A 6/6 Flying Lifelink on turn 1 is simply not good enough to win a game of EDH without significant backup. Even if I play turn 1 Ascendant, it still takes me until turn 8 to deal 40 damage with it. That's a heck of a lot of time to find an answer.

(For reference, I don't play Ascendant. It gets played against me fairly frequently.)

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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Oct-01 7:19 pm 

Joined: 2009-Jul-02 4:25 pm
Age: Drake
The next person that suggests banning Survival of the Fittest is getting pistol whipped.

This is the last format in which it is a playable card, and I will kill a man in front of his own mother before I have my Survivals rendered useless.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Oct-01 7:24 pm 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
What about Survival of the Fittest? That should totally be banned.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Oct-02 1:40 am 

Joined: 2009-Jan-23 11:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
NAW. Don't ban SotF. It's like Hermit Druid; players either use it to grab random fun stuff or they tutor their combos with it.
It's not Survival that's the issue, it's the players who use it in such a repetitive way.

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Spekter wrote:
niheloim wrote:
Aggravated Assault + Bear Umbra = My attempt to make my group move to ban Uril.
That's not ban-worthy, that's the spirit of EDH. Three-card combo involving the combat phase? Awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Oct-02 3:09 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-28 9:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Damidhol, Tuhel
majikal wrote:
The next person that suggests banning Survival of the Fittest is getting pistol whipped.

This is the last format in which it is a playable card, and I will kill a man in front of his own mother before I have my Survivals rendered useless.


I would totally trade my Survivals for a handgun.

_________________
Former StarCityGames.com writer.

Most famous article: Breaking Phage

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc ... Phage.html

Personal Favorite: pWN3D: Recollections of Spectacular Defeats in Multiplayer Magic

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/mult ... Magic.html


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Oct-02 3:28 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
tempesteye wrote:
NAW. Don't ban SotF. It's like Hermit Druid; players either use it to grab random fun stuff or they tutor their combos with it.
It's not Survival that's the issue, it's the players who use it in such a repetitive way.

You don't have to grab combos for it to be repetitive. Getting the *same* answers, or the same threats every time (in addition to the ever present genesis) gets just as repetitive. Cards that repeatedly tutor are always going to make games repetitive and boring. Add the absurd power level of survival and it gets silly.

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Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Oct-02 3:33 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
kaldare wrote:
tempesteye wrote:
NAW. Don't ban SotF. It's like Hermit Druid; players either use it to grab random fun stuff or they tutor their combos with it.
It's not Survival that's the issue, it's the players who use it in such a repetitive way.

You don't have to grab combos for it to be repetitive. Getting the *same* answers, or the same threats every time (in addition to the ever present genesis) gets just as repetitive. Cards that repeatedly tutor are always going to make games repetitive and boring. Add the absurd power level of survival and it gets silly.



In all the games I've played, depending on the color of the deck (green or green/+) I've never seen Survival played fairly:

Genesis, Squee, Big Game Hunter, Eldrazi (to shuffle it all up in case of removal), and then a sac outlet for Big Game Hunter to fetch it all over again with Squee. The Genesis usually sits there for stuff like Tribe Elder/Yavimaya Elder, and other creatures with abilities requiring them to be sacrificed.

Is it hard to fight against that sort of good quality and preassure, yes. Is it impossible, no.

Is it impossible if they start splashing blue to grab mystic snakes, draining whelks, etc..

pretty much so.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Oct-02 10:00 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Joz wrote:
kaldare wrote:
tempesteye wrote:
NAW. Don't ban SotF. It's like Hermit Druid; players either use it to grab random fun stuff or they tutor their combos with it.
It's not Survival that's the issue, it's the players who use it in such a repetitive way.

You don't have to grab combos for it to be repetitive. Getting the *same* answers, or the same threats every time (in addition to the ever present genesis) gets just as repetitive. Cards that repeatedly tutor are always going to make games repetitive and boring. Add the absurd power level of survival and it gets silly.



In all the games I've played, depending on the color of the deck (green or green/+) I've never seen Survival played fairly:

Genesis, Squee, Big Game Hunter, Eldrazi (to shuffle it all up in case of removal), and then a sac outlet for Big Game Hunter to fetch it all over again with Squee. The Genesis usually sits there for stuff like Tribe Elder/Yavimaya Elder, and other creatures with abilities requiring them to be sacrificed.

Is it hard to fight against that sort of good quality and preassure, yes. Is it impossible, no.

Is it impossible if they start splashing blue to grab mystic snakes, draining whelks, etc..

pretty much so.

Not to mention what happens when it enters Mimeoplasm or Karador. It essentially becomes an infinite version of Entomb.


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 Post subject: Re: What to ban/unban next?
AgePosted: 2012-Oct-02 2:43 pm 

Joined: 2008-Apr-27 8:14 pm
Age: Drake
Joz wrote:
kaldare wrote:
tempesteye wrote:
NAW. Don't ban SotF. It's like Hermit Druid; players either use it to grab random fun stuff or they tutor their combos with it.
It's not Survival that's the issue, it's the players who use it in such a repetitive way.

You don't have to grab combos for it to be repetitive. Getting the *same* answers, or the same threats every time (in addition to the ever present genesis) gets just as repetitive. Cards that repeatedly tutor are always going to make games repetitive and boring. Add the absurd power level of survival and it gets silly.



In all the games I've played, depending on the color of the deck (green or green/+) I've never seen Survival played fairly:

Genesis, Squee, Big Game Hunter, Eldrazi (to shuffle it all up in case of removal), and then a sac outlet for Big Game Hunter to fetch it all over again with Squee. The Genesis usually sits there for stuff like Tribe Elder/Yavimaya Elder, and other creatures with abilities requiring them to be sacrificed.

Is it hard to fight against that sort of good quality and preassure, yes. Is it impossible, no.

Is it impossible if they start splashing blue to grab mystic snakes, draining whelks, etc..

pretty much so.


So I guess this is a bad time to mention my ever present SoTF targets of Genesis and Spore Frog?

Spore Frog. He wins games. Tell your friends. :)


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