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 Post subject: Ichor Explosion + Chant of the Skifsang
AgePosted: 2012-Dec-13 12:19 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Mar-15 12:45 am
Age: Elder Dragon
There's a debate going on in the Magic thread over at Something Awful about whether sacrificing a creature to Ichor Explosion when Chant of the Skifsang has modified that creature's power by -13 will result in all creatures getting, for example, +12/+12, if the creature was a 1/1 to begin with. Someone tested a similar effect on MTGO with Auriok Bladewarden and found that it does indeed give creatures -12/-12 with its "+X/+X" ability when it's been modified to be a -12/1.

Anyone want to clarify the rules on this for me?

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 Post subject: Re: Ichor Explosion + Chant of the Skifsang
AgePosted: 2012-Dec-13 12:58 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Sep-01 2:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
It should pump creatures.

Check the bottom of this page: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5421426

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 Post subject: Re: Ichor Explosion + Chant of the Skifsang
AgePosted: 2012-Dec-13 2:16 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
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Location: New Hampshire
For easier reference, the link he gave references this rule;
Comprehensive Rules wrote:
107.1b Most of the time, the Magic game uses only positive numbers and zero. You can’t choose a negative number, deal negative damage, gain negative life, and so on. However, it’s possible for a game value, such as a creature’s power, to be less than zero. If a calculation or comparison needs to use a negative value, it does so. If a calculation that would determine the result of an effect yields a negative number, zero is used instead, unless that effect sets a player’s life total to a specific value, doubles a player’s life total, sets a creature’s power or toughness to a specific value, or otherwise modifies a creature’s power or toughness.

which seems to indicate that the ichor explosion as a pump spell thing does in fact work. (and is extremely hilarious.)

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 Post subject: Re: Ichor Explosion + Chant of the Skifsang
AgePosted: 2012-Dec-13 4:12 pm 
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I just reread the relevant portion of the thread, and it seems that the Ichor Explosion trick doesn't work on MTGO. Does that mean anything or does MTGO just get rules stuff wrong sometimes?

I love the idea of abusing Chant of the Skifsang this way.

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crokaycete wrote:
When casting Elephant Ambush, it is appropriate to yell "I was behind the tree, you stupid bastard" to announce the spell.


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 Post subject: Re: Ichor Explosion + Chant of the Skifsang
AgePosted: 2012-Dec-13 4:16 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Well, I don't play online, so I couldn't tell you, though I've heard stories in the past about MTGO just flat out getting it wrong, so it's possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Ichor Explosion + Chant of the Skifsang
AgePosted: 2012-Dec-13 4:49 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Sep-01 2:34 am
Age: Elder Dragon
It's not a bug, since it would have to be coded to ignore negative power for this, so I assuming it might be that WotC doesn't want it to work that way. There are only 2 cards that have this interaction: Ichor Explosion and Call for Blood. Any way to get official Wizards response on the matter?

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 Post subject: Re: Ichor Explosion + Chant of the Skifsang
AgePosted: 2012-Dec-13 11:30 pm 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
MTGO has lots of bugs. Inference of whether corner case MTGO "rulings" come from deliberate coding of the right thing, deliberate coding of the wrong thing, or knock-on effects of other behavior is not reliable.

In this case, I believe 107.1b does apply, and the negative value will be retained. That would still make Ichor Explosion about the worst Overrun ever printed, but I do think it works.

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 Post subject: Re: Ichor Explosion + Chant of the Skifsang
AgePosted: 2012-Dec-14 1:21 am 
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Joined: 2011-Mar-15 12:45 am
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Turning Auriok Bladewarden into an Avatar of Woe that can kill indestructibles is definitely the more awesome use of this. (This, plus a Thornbite Staff, is something that needs to happen.)

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crokaycete wrote:
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