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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 1:23 pm 

Joined: 2012-Mar-31 11:52 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Just a heads up, Troll and Toad are slow to update, so they're still showing old Koko prices. I snagged the last copy for $8, but there's a FtV for $14 and a foil for $25 still available.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 1:30 pm 

Joined: 2012-Sep-18 1:23 pm
Age: Hatchling
I like alot of people have zero respect for the banning of prime time. Frankly, I neither need nor want cards banned because they are staples in a given strategy even if they are amazing. I think this shows how out of touch the rules committe is. If you sit down to a game I'm going to play him I encourage others to also play what they want without reference to the banned list.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 1:42 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-14 11:11 pm
Age: Dragon
dkohaut wrote:
I like alot of people have zero respect for the banning of prime time. Frankly, I neither need nor want cards banned because they are staples in a given strategy even if they are amazing. I think this shows how out of touch the rules committe is. If you sit down to a game I'm going to play him I encourage others to also play what they want without reference to the banned list.


Actually most the response seems to be positive. I think this just shows how out of touch you maybe with the EDH community. I want to play my Black Lotus maybe I should just add it in my decks and play it anyhow. I don't think it is degenerate. Playing without a banned list is just a silly idea. And will lead to nothing good. Are you really that butthurt about not having a boring and over played card like prime time?


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 1:44 pm 

Joined: 2012-Sep-18 1:33 pm
Age: Hatchling
Meanwhile in the land of powerful ramp cards...

Sol ring, mana crypt and Mana vault remain unbanned.

O.o


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 1:54 pm 

Joined: 2012-Sep-18 1:23 pm
Age: Hatchling
Tantarus wrote:
dkohaut wrote:
I like alot of people have zero respect for the banning of prime time. Frankly, I neither need nor want cards banned because they are staples in a given strategy even if they are amazing. I think this shows how out of touch the rules committe is. If you sit down to a game I'm going to play him I encourage others to also play what they want without reference to the banned list.


Actually most the response seems to be positive. I think this just shows how out of touch you maybe with the EDH community. I want to play my Black Lotus maybe I should just add it in my decks and play it anyhow. I don't think it is degenerate. Playing without a banned list is just a silly idea. And will lead to nothing good. Are you really that butthurt about not having a boring and over played card like prime time?


I have a play group of about 8 regualar players most of which have 3+ decks. We collectively have a large number of decks that have prime time. I know my group and they will certainly want to play their titans. So I say play what you want. Given the number of people that have expressed sadness over the banning ignoring it seems completely valid. Now if you want a more controversal statement this makes me wish wizards was administering the banned list instead of the committe but I expect that to be an unpopular position.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 2:10 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Aug-06 1:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: USA
Go ahead bro. You play your freshly banned Prime Time and I'll play with the now unbanned Kokusho with some Recurring Nightmare in a B/W deck so I can search them both up and abuse the crap out of them ;)

Someone on Sheldon's article already compared it to fricken 9/11. So yah... much chilling needs to happen.

_________________
A few of my EDH Generals:
~ Mayael the Anima - Mayael the 5-Power Stompy
~ Marath, Will of the Wild - An EDH Teacher deck (Tribal Beasts)
~ Rhys the Redeemed - Tokens... Why do they keep coming!?
~ Bosh, Iron Golem - Legend of the Iron Giants
~ Damia, Sage of Stone - All Creatures Great & Small


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 2:15 pm 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
The internet put the hyper in hyperbole (although as a 9/11 veteran who lost friends and colleagues, it's difficult to not find that particular comparison offensive).

We knew this would be a polarizing decision. I'm fine with letting folks vent. I would, however, not mind seeing a "Here's why this is an unhealthy decision for the format" argument as opposed to "This sucks because I abused the hell out of that card!"

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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 2:34 pm 
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Joined: 2008-May-04 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wisconsin
PT - Never played with it. Was planning to, and I now I won't. Happy I won't be seeing it except in peoples binders.

Worldfire - Never saw it; never want to see it except in peoples binders.

Koko - Just bought 4x foils at $22ea. Nuff' said.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 2:44 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Aug-10 12:17 am
Age: Drake
Location: California, USA
I'm interested in trying out Koko and I am entirely unsurprised to see worldfire go.

I'm so very very happy to see the last of prime time, that card has plagued me and my group for a long time now. We maintain an unofficial ban list to supplement the committee's and I pushed very hard to get everyone to ban the titan. I convinced a majority of the group that it had to go but we require a super-majority of 2/3 to actually ban anything and we were a single vote shy. Speaking as someone who bought a foil titan for her foil mayael deck, I couldn't be happier to dump the thing in a box and forget about it.

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"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman." -Éowyn, daughter of Éomund


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 2:45 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Aug-06 1:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: USA
Calling it right now within a year Kokusho is back on the banned list.


Whether I believe my own claim or not is up for debate. :)

_________________
A few of my EDH Generals:
~ Mayael the Anima - Mayael the 5-Power Stompy
~ Marath, Will of the Wild - An EDH Teacher deck (Tribal Beasts)
~ Rhys the Redeemed - Tokens... Why do they keep coming!?
~ Bosh, Iron Golem - Legend of the Iron Giants
~ Damia, Sage of Stone - All Creatures Great & Small


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 3:04 pm 

Joined: 2012-Sep-18 1:23 pm
Age: Hatchling
Kokusho and primeval titan are very much of the same type. Both are easy to abuse and both are alot of fun to play if your not abusing them. In a format that is so easily broken I can't think of a valid reason to bann cards of this type. It is well established that the format can not be balanced without massive banning which isn't going to happen. So whats the point? Just to tone down ramp? Banning an extremely popular card that is a face of the format to slightly shift the meta seems crazy to me. How many decks that aren't ramp decks are being modified just to make ramp slighly worse? I feel that when a card reaches the level of multi archetype staple it should be given a little deference as it is so widely played. This banning just seems completely random to me but then again my group has a total of one mono green ramp deck I believe.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 3:10 pm 

Joined: 2009-Apr-21 3:38 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Palm Springs Area, CA
This looked like a job for (cue the fanfare) the social contract!

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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 3:17 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Sep-30 4:57 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
As someone who owns a multitude of titans, I am happy to put them away. Green was ridiculous for far too long thanks to Prime time. He was always the first target for a tutor or reanimation spell.

Chainer found a new friend with Koko puffs being unbanned though.

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TheAardvark wrote:
This just in: EDH players (Magic players in general, really) are selfish and don't care what others view as fun unless it coincides directly with their own idea of what is fun.

In related news, water is wet.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 4:37 pm 

Joined: 2009-Sep-28 1:08 pm
Age: Hatchling
I don't like what the ban on Primeval Titan means for Commander. This is the first time that a card has been banned for just format-warping. Now, you say this is a criterion for being a banned card, yes? That's true, but there's a difference between format-warping and -breaking and I think only the truly serious offenders/breakers need to be banned. There are many format-warping cards in Commander. Sol Ring. All of the good 1- and 2-mana tutors. Consecrated Sphinx. Gaea's Cradle. Cabal Coffers/Urborg. There are even cards that still are legal yet are very strong due to the mechanics of Commander. Serra Ascendant. Magister Sphinx. Sorin Markov. All of these are heavy hitters in the format that have been untouched for years. Why? First, because what is a good format without strong cards? Legacy as a format would perish if Brainstorm was ever banned. Second, because Commander is a social, self-adjusting format. We shun the mass LD cards, the "oops, I win" infinite combos, and the really expensive Time Warp functional reprints. We all complain (myself included) about cards we hate all of the time (seriously, die in a fire Reveillark)...but usually the playgroup adjusts. Not the case with Prime Time, it seems. So instead of self-adjusting that behavior, we have judgment from on high crammed down our throats.

And there is no way that many cards down the road will not suffer the same fate. Many cards that have been untouched that I mentioned are now in jeopardy. Why is Sol Ring still legal? You say its crucial to the identity of the format, yet I'd argue that Prime Time was too. And at least I could interact with Primeval Titan. I could counter it, I could steal it, I could clone it! In fact, it seems the fact that interacting with Primeval Titan was a bad thing, but it was better than Sol Ring. By the time most people can interact with Sol Ring, it is way too late. Something like 80% win rate for the guy that opens on Sol Ring. Ridiculous. And what about tutors? I mean, in a way they enabled Primeval Titan too! People didn't magically draw Primeval Titan every game, they tutored for him! Primeval Titan was banned for enabling "broken stuff" with lands, so why are cheap tutors untouched?

Do you see this slippery slope? Do you see why I'm mad enough to post my opinion on three different Internet sites?

Of course, I could always ignore their decision, as it is a casual format after all. The direction the Rules Committee is taking, however, is one that potentially will open the floodgates to a whole host of bannings of cards that simply should be self-regulated by the players who don't want to play with the more powerful cards of the format. Also, I'm planning on playing as much mass LD as is prudent in my decks because someone has to counter "the overrepresentation of heavy ramp strategies". I'm not talking about cards like Decree of Annihilation and Jokulhaups that also wipe creatures but Armageddon and Catastrophe seem really nice when my Voltron-ed Kemba controls the battlefield.


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 Post subject: Re: September Ban List Discussion
AgePosted: 2012-Sep-18 5:16 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-02 7:33 am
Age: Hatchling
People are so touchy. Titan had to go, every game it showed up it gets cloned, stolen or killed right away. Minimum it ramped 2 lands and removed a kill spell from someones hand. People put it in every deck that had green just because you can tutor up any busted land you want.

If you need to ramp that badly play some more ramp spells, replace primetime with Epic Ramp Spell.


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