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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-05 6:41 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
A post claiming that you can put Emrakul into play on turn 1 with Black Lotus (with no further explanation as to how that happens) is a bullshit post. The difference between drawing 35 extra cards and drawing 39 is insubstantial. I'm telling you, he's just screwing with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-05 8:32 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-09 10:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Grand_Abolisher wrote:

And please, humor me as to why Bruna is more broken then Griselbrand. This should be fun.

I think trevor is right.

You really don't think that being able to put ALL the auras in play at once just by swinging isn't broken? My friend made a Bruna deck. Every time she attacks the game ends.
Griselbrand just gives you the ability to chose cards from your deck.

_________________
Teeka's Dragon + Grafted Exoskeleton + Magebane Armor + Lure is my personal favorite combo.
Current decks: Child of Alara Tribal Enchantment Deck
Soon to be: Mishra's Double Donger Artifact Steal Deck


Last edited by Temennigru on 2012-Jul-05 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-05 8:33 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-09 10:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
trevor wrote:
A post claiming that you can put Emrakul into play on turn 1 with Black Lotus (with no further explanation as to how that happens) is a bullshit post. The difference between drawing 35 extra cards and drawing 39 is insubstantial. I'm telling you, he's just screwing with you.

Black lotus
Show and tell
Emrakul, the aeons torn

_________________
Teeka's Dragon + Grafted Exoskeleton + Magebane Armor + Lure is my personal favorite combo.
Current decks: Child of Alara Tribal Enchantment Deck
Soon to be: Mishra's Double Donger Artifact Steal Deck


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-05 8:44 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Black Lotus, Goryo's Vengeance, Funeral Charm


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 4:05 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
This guy is definitely trolling. There is no way even a relatively novice player could think Bruna is as busted as GB.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 6:16 am 
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Joined: 2012-Apr-01 1:06 pm
Age: Drake
Temennigru wrote:
Grand_Abolisher wrote:

And please, humor me as to why Bruna is more broken then Griselbrand. This should be fun.

I think trevor is right.

You really don't think that being able to put ALL the auras in play at once just by swinging isn't broken? My friend made a Bruna deck. Every time she attacks the game ends.
Griselbrand just gives you the ability to chose cards from your deck.

Yeah, and you and your playgroup don't own any targetted creature removal, Krosan Grips, fliers, guys with reach, Maze of Ith or Kor Haven, hand disruption of any sort, mass enchantment removal of any sort, wraths of any sort, faster aggro cards, counterspells, or fog effects? Also, do you only play duels? If not, then I question how Bruna gets the Hydra Omnivore ability, or how she gets multiple attack steps to defeat each player. Not to mention that she doesn't even have haste. And in order to make her useful, you have to saturate your deck with Auras, and if your general gets countered or killed before you get to attack, you have a plethora of dead cards.

FYI, my friend also built a Bruna deck. I have a near perfect record against it in duels and multiplayer, and the guy who built it is by no means a bad player. So yeah, she's so powerful that I can beat her.

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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 6:44 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-10 2:51 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Rittman, OH USA
Drawing cards right away and "putting cards in your hand at end of turn" is an ENORMOUS difference.
Also yadda yadda 7/7 flying lifelink etc... I was ready to argue on this until I read "Bruna is way more broken" xD

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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 8:06 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-09 10:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Grand_Abolisher wrote:
Temennigru wrote:
Grand_Abolisher wrote:

And please, humor me as to why Bruna is more broken then Griselbrand. This should be fun.

I think trevor is right.

You really don't think that being able to put ALL the auras in play at once just by swinging isn't broken? My friend made a Bruna deck. Every time she attacks the game ends.
Griselbrand just gives you the ability to chose cards from your deck.

Yeah, and you and your playgroup don't own any targetted creature removal, Krosan Grips, fliers, guys with reach, Maze of Ith or Kor Haven, hand disruption of any sort, mass enchantment removal of any sort, wraths of any sort, faster aggro cards, counterspells, or fog effects? Also, do you only play duels? If not, then I question how Bruna gets the Hydra Omnivore ability, or how she gets multiple attack steps to defeat each player. Not to mention that she doesn't even have haste. And in order to make her useful, you have to saturate your deck with Auras, and if your general gets countered or killed before you get to attack, you have a plethora of dead cards.

FYI, my friend also built a Bruna deck. I have a near perfect record against it in duels and multiplayer, and the guy who built it is by no means a bad player. So yeah, she's so powerful that I can beat her.

I forgot to mention: his deck is a control deck so creature removal doesn't work as he always counters them.
His deck is composed of 50% counterspells and 50% auras.
Also he has lots of auras that make her unblockable.
I tried to play against him with my kaalia deck (which had griselbrand at the time BTW) and he kept canceling kaalia and all the spells i cast. In the end i had nothing on the table, he put bruna, equipped lightning greaves and attacked me with 50/50 unblockable infect. Then he used Evacuation and did the same to the other player playing with us.

_________________
Teeka's Dragon + Grafted Exoskeleton + Magebane Armor + Lure is my personal favorite combo.
Current decks: Child of Alara Tribal Enchantment Deck
Soon to be: Mishra's Double Donger Artifact Steal Deck


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 8:44 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Temennigru wrote:
I forgot to mention: his deck is a control deck so creature removal doesn't work as he always counters them.
His deck is composed of 50% counterspells and 50% auras.
Also he has lots of auras that make her unblockable.
I tried to play against him with my kaalia deck (which had griselbrand at the time BTW) and he kept canceling kaalia and all the spells i cast. In the end i had nothing on the table, he put bruna, equipped lightning greaves and attacked me with 50/50 unblockable infect. Then he used Evacuation and did the same to the other player playing with us.

Fun tips:
1. Never allow a Bruna player to keep a lightning greaves or swiftfoot boots. Kill it on sight.
2. Gang up on him. With half his deck Aura, he won't have enough counters or mana to stop *all* of you from killing Bruna.
Follow those two rules and Bruna decks will never really win. Just in case, there is also:
3. Play things like Maze of Ith, M. Maze, and Kor Haven. Lands can't be countered.
4. If you have money to burn, acquire and play forcefield. You have a 100/100 Shroud, protection from everything? Yeah, I'll take 1.
5. If you don't have money, try stuff like Story Circle, Runes of Protection, or Martyr's Cause. Nonwhite players can try Sunstone.
6. Play uncounterable spells (Banefire, Combust, Last Word), make your stuff uncounterable. (Boseiju, Cavern of Souls, Determined), or just play stuff like Grand Abolisher, Mana Maze, Rule of Law, or Sen Triplets to screw with your opponent's answers.

_________________
Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 8:53 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-09 10:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
kaldare wrote:
Temennigru wrote:
I forgot to mention: his deck is a control deck so creature removal doesn't work as he always counters them.
His deck is composed of 50% counterspells and 50% auras.
Also he has lots of auras that make her unblockable.
I tried to play against him with my kaalia deck (which had griselbrand at the time BTW) and he kept canceling kaalia and all the spells i cast. In the end i had nothing on the table, he put bruna, equipped lightning greaves and attacked me with 50/50 unblockable infect. Then he used Evacuation and did the same to the other player playing with us.

Fun tips:
1. Never allow a Bruna player to keep a lightning greaves or swiftfoot boots. Kill it on sight.
2. Gang up on him. With half his deck Aura, he won't have enough counters or mana to stop *all* of you from killing Bruna.
Follow those two rules and Bruna decks will never really win. Just in case, there is also:
3. Play things like Maze of Ith, M. Maze, and Kor Haven. Lands can't be countered.
4. If you have money to burn, acquire and play forcefield. You have a 100/100 Shroud, protection from everything? Yeah, I'll take 1.
5. If you don't have money, try stuff like Story Circle, Runes of Protection, or Martyr's Cause. Nonwhite players can try Sunstone.
6. Play uncounterable spells (Banefire, Combust, Last Word), make your stuff uncounterable. (Boseiju, Cavern of Souls, Determined), or just play stuff like Grand Abolisher, Mana Maze, Rule of Law, or Sen Triplets to screw with your opponent's answers.

I won't put bruna-specific cards in my deck.
And we tried to destroy the greaves and gang up on him but he kept countering everything. He had a counter with buyback in his hand.

_________________
Teeka's Dragon + Grafted Exoskeleton + Magebane Armor + Lure is my personal favorite combo.
Current decks: Child of Alara Tribal Enchantment Deck
Soon to be: Mishra's Double Donger Artifact Steal Deck


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 9:48 am 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-12 3:20 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Temennigru wrote:
And we tried to destroy the greaves and gang up on him but he kept countering everything. He had a counter with buyback in his hand.

There a precisely two of those. Excepting very strange circumstances, he's very unlikely to be able to spell burst lots of stuff in a Bruna deck. (And if he's doing that, Bruna isn't your problem, Spell Burst is.)
So that leaves Forbid. Which, yeah, is the best counter imaginable in Bruna. You can't really complain too heavily about what happens when someone draws their best card. The vast majority of games, however, he simply won't draw Forbid.
And even when he does, it's not that hard to get around.
Player A casts Terastradon. Player B casts Forbid /w Buyback.
Player C casts Return To Dust in response to Forbid. Forbid is on the stack, and thus can't be used to counter RtD. Or even simpler, Player C just counters Forbid.

Temennigru wrote:
I won't put bruna-specific cards in my deck.

Which is why I mainly suggested cards that aren't Bruna specific. Forcefield is basically always good, Martyr's Cause is good in any creature deck (sac outlets are always good).

Lands like Maze of Ith, and Kor Haven are alrady considered Staples in commander by many players.
If blue is played much at all in your area, Cavern of Souls is almost an auto include in decks that likes it's commander, since it saves you from Hinder/Spell Crumple on your commander.
Boseiju and Grand Abolisher are more narrow, but still very useful depending on your deck, and the other popular decks.

If by "put bruna-specific cards" you mean, "I'm not willing to change my deck at all", then you're more or less just being a whiny toddler. Formats and environments change. You have to be willing to change with them; It's simply a part of magic.

_________________
Current Commander Decks:
Alesha, She who Smiles at Death.....Atraxa, Praetors' Voice.....Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.....Gonti, Lord of Luxury.....Karametra, God of Harvests.....Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.....Kozilek, the Great Distortion.....Prime Speaker Zegana.....Rubinia Soulsinger.....Thrasios, Triton Hero + Vial Smasher the Fierce

My general commander philosophy: Using your opponent's degenerate cards against them is far more satisfying than playing degenerate cards yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 10:36 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-15 12:02 pm
Age: Drake
Temennigru wrote:
I forgot to mention: his deck is a control deck so creature removal doesn't work as he always counters them.
His deck is composed of 50% counterspells and 50% auras.
Also he has lots of auras that make her unblockable.
I tried to play against him with my kaalia deck (which had griselbrand at the time BTW) and he kept canceling kaalia and all the spells i cast. In the end i had nothing on the table, he put bruna, equipped lightning greaves and attacked me with 50/50 unblockable infect. Then he used Evacuation and did the same to the other player playing with us.

I think you should be glad that guy is playing bruna and not a commander that is actually good. God forbid that guy try uril or skittles. Or give that dude griselbrand the general and you'll find out why he was banned. ^_^

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Current Generals:
Child of Alara: Sideboard, the deck
Heartless Hidetsugu: Does what every other Heartless deck does.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain: Rebel Elf Ball
Patron of the Kitsune: Foxes are a strong tribal, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 11:52 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-09 10:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
brainface wrote:
Temennigru wrote:
I forgot to mention: his deck is a control deck so creature removal doesn't work as he always counters them.
His deck is composed of 50% counterspells and 50% auras.
Also he has lots of auras that make her unblockable.
I tried to play against him with my kaalia deck (which had griselbrand at the time BTW) and he kept canceling kaalia and all the spells i cast. In the end i had nothing on the table, he put bruna, equipped lightning greaves and attacked me with 50/50 unblockable infect. Then he used Evacuation and did the same to the other player playing with us.

I think you should be glad that guy is playing bruna and not a commander that is actually good. God forbid that guy try uril or skittles. Or give that dude griselbrand the general and you'll find out why he was banned. ^_^

The 3rd person who was playing was playing a griselbrand deck. And still we both lost without being able to play. And i didn't think his griselbrand deck was as broken as you people say it is.

_________________
Teeka's Dragon + Grafted Exoskeleton + Magebane Armor + Lure is my personal favorite combo.
Current decks: Child of Alara Tribal Enchantment Deck
Soon to be: Mishra's Double Donger Artifact Steal Deck


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 11:56 am 

Joined: 2012-Apr-09 10:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
kaldare wrote:
Player A casts Terastradon. Player B casts Forbid /w Buyback.
Player C casts Return To Dust in response to Forbid. Forbid is on the stack, and thus can't be used to counter RtD. Or even simpler, Player C just counters Forbid.


That's exactly what happened (except for the terrastodon part). Then he used counterspell on the return to dust.
I'm telling you. There's no way to beat his deck. He has all the standard mana ramps for commander (signets, gilded lotus, mana vault, etc.) and LOTS AND LOTS of spell counters. He counters everything, then casts bruna, attacks and wins the game.

_________________
Teeka's Dragon + Grafted Exoskeleton + Magebane Armor + Lure is my personal favorite combo.
Current decks: Child of Alara Tribal Enchantment Deck
Soon to be: Mishra's Double Donger Artifact Steal Deck


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 Post subject: Re: Why was griselbrand banned?
AgePosted: 2012-Jul-06 12:05 pm 

Joined: 2012-Apr-09 10:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
kaldare wrote:
Which is why I mainly suggested cards that aren't Bruna specific. Forcefield is basically always good, Martyr's Cause is good in any creature deck (sac outlets are always good).

Lands like Maze of Ith, and Kor Haven are alrady considered Staples in commander by many players.
If blue is played much at all in your area, Cavern of Souls is almost an auto include in decks that likes it's commander, since it saves you from Hinder/Spell Crumple on your commander.
Boseiju and Grand Abolisher are more narrow, but still very useful depending on your deck, and the other popular decks.

If by "put bruna-specific cards" you mean, "I'm not willing to change my deck at all", then you're more or less just being a whiny toddler. Formats and environments change. You have to be willing to change with them; It's simply a part of magic.

I'm also not putting 100 dollar cards in my deck. I will NEVER spend more than 15 dollars in a single card.

_________________
Teeka's Dragon + Grafted Exoskeleton + Magebane Armor + Lure is my personal favorite combo.
Current decks: Child of Alara Tribal Enchantment Deck
Soon to be: Mishra's Double Donger Artifact Steal Deck


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