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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-04 12:12 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
I don't like the idea of someone tuning their deck against mine at the start of the game - it would take too long for them to pick what to cut and insert their Sid hate. That said, I find wishes to be less powerful than existing tutors already legal if used in the context of having a wishboard, as I outlined above. If your answers are in your wishboard, the are LESS ACCESSIBLE than if they are in the deck - you have to draw the wish to use them. So lets say I'm playing... well basically any of the decks in my sig, and you have Burning Wish in the deck and Ruination in the wishboard. I would rather have to worry about you drawing into the wish and then needing to spend the mana to cast the wish and the spell you want than having you just topdeck that Ruination or any of the far more numerous tutors that could get it from your maindeck and play it any day of the week. Same with Spawnsire - I have a hard time believing that it would break EDH to allow someone to have singleton copies of Eldrazi that aren't in their maindeck in their spawnboard.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-04 10:58 pm 

Joined: 2010-Dec-08 4:52 pm
Age: Wyvern
Seeing how this is a conversation about sideboards, my playgroup has an issue; One player uses wishes, and upon my request he use a sideboard rather than his collection. He has taken the liberty in creating a sideboard of more than the maximum. He manages (somehow) to reuse wishes multiple times and hence decided to play with an overgrown sideboard.

So the advice I'm searching for is this; how do I confront him about this? I believe in rules and continuity, hence when it comes to bending the rules I'm rather inflexible because it creates friction at the table. My playgroup is also conflicted, some people think it's interesting, where others think that it's obnoxious. I feel guilty as well because I forced him to play with a sideboard or without. I will take Sheldon's example next chance I get, however, I am certain that the player will just ignore me. So what should I do?


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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-04 11:06 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Awd_ish_evil wrote:
So what should I do?
I think you have to sit down with them and say, "Hey, these aren't official rules". Then, you have two options.

1. If you're cool with him using a wishboard, tell him "So, we need to hammer out exactly what a sideboard is, and then we're going to stick by that."

2. If you're not cool with him using a wishboard, tell him "So, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with you using this stuff."

Warning: You might have to compromise.

BTW, how is he recurring wishes? Riftsweeper and Pull from Eternity?

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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-04 11:25 pm 

Joined: 2010-Dec-08 4:52 pm
Age: Wyvern
Sinis wrote:
Awd_ish_evil wrote:
So what should I do?
I think you have to sit down with them and say, "Hey, these aren't official rules". Then, you have two options.

1. If you're cool with him using a wishboard, tell him "So, we need to hammer out exactly what a sideboard is, and then we're going to stick by that."

2. If you're not cool with him using a wishboard, tell him "So, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with you using this stuff."

Warning: You might have to compromise.

BTW, how is he recurring wishes? Riftsweeper and Pull from Eternity?



That's exactly how he's reusing them, i recognize a compromise is what's going to happen. I'm just wondering what other people would do in my situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-04 11:56 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-14 11:11 pm
Age: Dragon
Awd_ish_evil wrote:


That's exactly how he's reusing them, i recognize a compromise is what's going to happen. I'm just wondering what other people would do in my situation.


Why not just show him this thread and say sorry no wishes. They are only playable with a 10 card side board and only when everyone agrees to allow them.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-05 9:56 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Awd_ish_evil wrote:
Sinis wrote:
BTW, how is he recurring wishes? Riftsweeper and Pull from Eternity?



That's exactly how he's reusing them, i recognize a compromise is what's going to happen. I'm just wondering what other people would do in my situation.
I, personally, don't care whether people use wishboards or not, though I do think people ought to be restricted to 15 cards outside the game.

As for recurring his wishes, I could hardly care. That's massively time consuming and inefficient; I'd be surprised if it was winning them any games.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-05 10:17 am 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
Sinis wrote:
As for recurring his wishes, I could hardly care. That's massively time consuming and inefficient; I'd be surprised if it was winning them any games.

Agreed. I have, from time to time, cast Living Wish for Riftsweeper, then shuffled the Wish back in. If someone thinks 2GG for a Grizzly Bear with a one-time effect of "Shuffle your library." is busted, I would hate to see that person's reaction when I cast Civic Wayfinder . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-06 11:41 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
As was stated above, if wish boards became legal, even with a 10 card limit, people are just going to use them for 9 hose cards and one card that actually fits their deck's theme (so it's always useful). They're not going to do anything interesting, but rather just allow people to LEGALLY build a narrow "hate list" for their meta.

Thumbs down.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-06 11:45 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
You guys should've seen my old Wish Deathboard (for Death Wish, obviously.)

10 disgusting, DISGUSTING, things.
Why?

Becouse paying half my life to end someone is amazing :D


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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-06 11:52 am 
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Joined: 2010-Aug-17 12:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Nashua/Salem, NH
trevor wrote:
As was stated above, if wish boards became legal, even with a 10 card limit, people are just going to use them for 9 hose cards and one card that actually fits their deck's theme (so it's always useful). They're not going to do anything interesting, but rather just allow people to LEGALLY build a narrow "hate list" for their meta.

Thumbs down.

Agreed. People have commented that wish boards are inefficient, but they feel like an easy way to cheat 10 or so cards that are hardly playable in the majority of cases, but ridiculously powerful in select cases.

I would never want to play with someone with a wish board.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-08 10:06 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
trevor wrote:
As was stated above, if wish boards became legal, even with a 10 card limit, people are just going to use them for 9 hose cards and one card that actually fits their deck's theme.

Yes, some people will behave that way. If those who cannot self-regulate are the only people you play with, then I totally understand your opposition to Wishes. However, if those are the only people you play with, I imagine Wishes are actually the least of your problems.
shmebula wrote:
I would never want to play with someone with a wish board.

Blanket statements like "never" are always going to be wrong.

Heh.

More tangibly, I only run Wishes in two of my decks so far, Jenara (Cunning Wish) and Intet (Burning Wish and Living Wish). Here they are:


If you seriously would refuse to play against me on the grounds that paying 2 or 3 mana more for any of those cards (none of which are repeats of cards in the main deck) is somehow overpowered, then you would be needlessly cutting yourself out of having what could be a fun game.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-08 11:01 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-08 9:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I've played hundreds of EDH games all across the country, and I've never seen anyone do sideboards.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-08 11:04 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-08 9:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Interestingly, the mulligan rule varies regionally. Some people do strict mulligan with the first one free. Some do mulligan where the cards go off to the side until you're done, then they're shuffled. Some people do partial paris with a full draw the first time. Some do strict partial paris. Some do partial paris where the cards go on the bottom rather than being shuffled back in.

Also, some places have the first player draw a card, and some don't.

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Thraxiumundar - Sacrifice Effects
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Darien, King of Kjeldor - Go Ahead and Attack
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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-09 12:35 am 
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Joined: 2008-Aug-15 9:31 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Considering that wishes were played in standard, extended, etc in the "hose you game one" way I'm saying, I have no doubt that at least new players would build wish boards full of Boil, Acid Rain, Flashfires, Conversion, Karma, Magus of the Moon, etc. I know it's the first thing that came to my mind when I clicked on this thread and read "wish board" and I doubt I'm alone. Therefore I think it's reasonable to assume that it's an inevitability of making wish boards legal.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
AgePosted: 2011-Dec-09 5:14 am 
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Joined: 2010-Aug-17 12:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Nashua/Salem, NH
intreped wrote:
If you seriously would refuse to play against me on the grounds that paying 2 or 3 mana more for any of those cards (none of which are repeats of cards in the main deck) is somehow overpowered, then you would be needlessly cutting yourself out of having what could be a fun game.

The way I see it is you're paying a 2-3 mana tax to add a tutor to your deck to find one of 10-15 cards that would never fit into your main deck, but can be an amazing answer to something you're otherwise not prepared to handle. I'd rather you just replace the wish with one of your targets, shuffle up and deal.

The Spawnsire wish board is even more ridiculous.

And sure, maybe some day in the future I change my mind, but I will not play with someone with a wish sideboard today or in the foreseeable future.

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Mayael the Anima
Kresh
Sharuum
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
Garza Zol
Edric
Damia
Zedruu
Ashling the Pilgrim
Karona, False God
Grimgrin
Rhys the Redeemed
Kaervek
Wrexial
Bruna
Melek
Brigid
Stonebrow
Jor Kadeen
Mimeoplasm
Balthor
Yeva
Kira
Progenitus
Vish Kal
Animar
Kaalia
Ghave
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