MTG Commander/Elder Dragon Highlander
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Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11071
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Author:  obsidiandice [ 2011-Dec-03 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

Personally, I have never seen anyone play Commander with the optional sideboard rule. I assume this is the case for most people, but wanted to check if it's more common than I give it credit for.

I stopped carrying sideboards for my casual decks long before I started playing Commander, because it's a hassle to keep them separate, you don't usually want to take the time between games, and sideboarding often feels a bit like cheating in casual games anyways.

So is there any reason for this rule to remain on the books? Does anyone actually use it?

Author:  intreped [ 2011-Dec-03 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I do it to play with Wishes.

Aside from that, I could imagine using it for my Oros deck just to add more variance by siding out between 5 and 10 random nonmana cards each game. But I don't do that. I don't believe I've ever encountered anybody who uses it for anything other than a Wish-board.

Author:  Firloz [ 2011-Dec-03 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

Just for wishboard, used to put anti-graveyard cards there so that i didn't need to dedicate maindeck slots for it, but it turns out almost every time i sit down i boarded them in so i just moved them to the main.

also occasionally i'll use it for a spawnsireboard, it turns out 20 mana is pretty easy to do with him in play, and having ulamog and kozilek be mostly un-briberyable has been a boon.

Author:  Carthain [ 2011-Dec-03 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I don't use them - don't know of anybody locally who does.

Author:  Sheldon [ 2011-Dec-03 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I want to once again reinforce the idea that the optional sideboard rule isn't something you can beat other players over the head with. You can't just show up with a sideboard and a Wish suite and declare you're allowed to play it. It's an optional rule, not a part of dogma. If you want to play with the optional rule, then get the agreement of your group beforehand, please.

Author:  obsidiandice [ 2011-Dec-03 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

Sheldon wrote:
I want to once again reinforce the idea that the optional sideboard rule isn't something you can beat other players over the head with. You can't just show up with a sideboard and a Wish suite and declare you're allowed to play it. It's an optional rule, not a part of dogma. If you want to play with the optional rule, then get the agreement of your group beforehand, please.

Understood and strongly agreed with. Sideboards are a decision that should be made by the group, not by one player who wants to modify their deck between games.

My question was, are there actually groups that use sideboards? If I were to add sideboards to all of my decks when I visit new games stores and tournaments, could I ever expect to actually use them?

Based on my experience, no one uses sideboards and they should probably be removed from the listed rules (even if they are optional). But I'm curious to see if other people's experiences match up - it's certainly possible that sideboarding in EDH is more popular than I give it credit for.

Author:  Ukkmaster [ 2011-Dec-03 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I have only seen one person in any of my groups try to use a sideboard and argued it was his right to do so, to the point where he was sulky for the rest of the night when someone pulled up this site to show him the optional sideboard group rules.

Author:  Sid the Chicken [ 2011-Dec-03 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I've seen one or two people use a wishboard, and no one really tried to call them on the optional thing. Personally I'd rather see the optional sideboard concept go away altogether, and have an official "Wishboard" rule - if the intent of stopping wishes from working as printed (get any card in your collection) was to prevent them from spoiling games by making them take forever as the wish-user pored over his/her binder, then I think we could institute a reasonable variant of the sideboard rules specific for wishes. Something like;
1. The wish board shall be no more than 10 cards
2. No card in the main deck can be duplicated in the wish board
3. All cards in the wish board must match the commander's color identity
4. No two cards in the wish board may have the same english name
Basically, ensure that the wish doesn't allow the person to do anything they could have already had in the deck and it really isn't unfair or unbalancing, and I can think of very few scenarios where it isn't better to just have the card maindeck anyways. Two that spring to mind are silver bullets that are otherwise bad but solve certain problems (basically the same reason you would sideboard) and as suggested above to protect some certain cards in your deck from being abused by bribery and the like. And frankly, I'd LOVE to be able to permanently deny you Kozilek and Ulamog by pathing your Spawnsire (or even better, getting rid of it with Sadistic Sacrament).

EDIT: To emphasize, I support this being an official rule, NOT an optional rule, so there are no fights over whether it's legit to do or not.

Author:  Killane [ 2011-Dec-03 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I use a wishboard. Lots.of.people around here use the.sideboard.

Author:  Sheldon [ 2011-Dec-03 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

Quite honestly, if someone said right before we started "I'm using a sideboard," I'd say "No, you're not." I'd like them take out the Wishes and put cards from the SB first, but I think springing it on unsuspecting people is pretty crappy.

Author:  KrosanGrip [ 2011-Dec-03 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I've only ever seen them used as wishboards, and almost always asked about beforehand much like silver-border cards and banned cards.

Personally, I'd support removing the sideboard rules altogether (since they're very, very rarely used as intended) and adding wishboard rules, optional or just as part of the normal rules. The only real problem with wishes is that they take too long if you're going through all the cards you own, so having plain, clear-cut rules for them would make things much simpler.

Author:  tempesteye [ 2011-Dec-03 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I would really like to see it implemented in MTGO.
I have a feeling it would improve the meta.

Has anyone seen SB's used at major events, like any of the 'Cons or at GP's?

Author:  Sinis [ 2011-Dec-03 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I've played against people who have used Wishes, though they didn't know that sideboards are optional and apparently frowned upon. Mostly, it's been Spawnsire of Ulamog, and I've said "Well, he paid 30 mana into it without generating infinite amounts, I don't see why this isn't fun."

Most people I know ask first, and then when everyone says "sure, cool" they go ahead and play with it. Because, it's probably not going to matter, and if it does, it's only one game anyway.

Author:  intreped [ 2011-Dec-04 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

Sid the Chicken wrote:
Basically, ensure that the wish doesn't allow the person to do anything they could have already had in the deck and it really isn't unfair or unbalancing, and I can think of very few scenarios where it isn't better to just have the card maindeck anyways. Two that spring to mind are silver bullets that are otherwise bad but solve certain problems (basically the same reason you would sideboard) and as suggested above to protect some certain cards in your deck from being abused by bribery and the like.

Exactly. It doesn't seem that Wishes are "frowned upon" for power reasons or flavor reasons, when used under the existing sideboard rules. My understanding is that they aren't [O]fficially supported simply because the RC wants to keep the rules as short and simple as possible.
Sheldon wrote:
Quite honestly, if someone said right before we started "I'm using a sideboard," I'd say "No, you're not."

Interesting. What if that person phrased it differently: "Is it alright with everyone if I use a sideboard? I have Wishes in my deck." Would you still refuse?

Author:  Tantarus [ 2011-Dec-04 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Does Anyone Play with Sideboards?

I am pretty against sideboards in general, especially as wishboards. That is just someone trying to do something to get a competitive advantage 99% of the time. Usually by stocking narrow answers without wanting to clog up there deck.

Twice playing on cockatrice I have had someone try and cast a wish, and use any card from the game... When I link them a post from this site about wishing they always get butthurt and leave. And they are never trying to get anything fun, usually it is color hate like Acid Rain or something.

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