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 Post subject: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 11:48 am 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
So this is a Dirty little 5 color combo deck that utilizes Lich as a major draw engine. While the deck could I suppose, swing with the general, who is a 6/6 afterall (and I am playing Timestretch), that’s not really what it is designed to do. The entire impetus behind building the deck in the first place was nostalgia for the OLD (and I am talking 95-97 here) vintage Lich decks. I started a thread in Strategy about this many moons ago, it can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4645

So I will start with the list and then give some AWESOME interactions. Don’t bother responding if your just going to say:
1. I am a douche/ asshole/ etc. because this is a combo deck.
2.Playing Lich is stupid since Krosan Grip kills me. (No!!! Really??)
3.I am jerk for playing some good cards like Palinchron, or Mind over Matter, or Dream Halls.
Such posts will be ridiculed, and then ignored. So without further ado:

General:Child of Alara
Mana Engines: 9
1.Azusa, LoST but Seeking
2.Squandered Resources
3.Crucible of Worlds
4.Ashnod's Altar
5.Corpse Dance
6.Nim Deathmantle
7.Cadaverous Bloom
8.Mirari's Wake
9.Palinchron

Card Drawing Engines:5
1.LICH
2.Words of Worship
3.Peace of Mind
4.Ad Nauseam
5.Illusions of Grandeur

Shield Cards: 6
1.Delaying Shield
2.Solitary Confinement
3.Sterling Grove (doubles as a tutor)
4.City of Solitude
5.Platinum Angel
6.Peacekeeper

Cheaty Face Cards/ Engines: 7 (yes, I called them that for a reason)
1.Dream Halls
2.EUREKA
3.Mind over Matter
4.Mycosynth Lattice (Used for a Colored-mana filter)
5.Darksteel Forge
6.Scroll Rack
7.Time stretch

Tutor Suite: 8
1.Demonic Tutor
2.Vampiric Tutor
3.Cruel Tutor (no downside with Lich in play)
4.Diabolic Tutor
5.Enlightened Tutor
6.Mystical tutor
7.Wargate
8.Academy Rector

Recursion Suite: 5
1.Eternal Witness
2.Replenish
3.TimeTwister
4.Reito Lantern
5.Praetor's Counsel

Utility Lifegain/ Draw: 3
1.Children of Korlis
2.Tainted Sigil
3.Temple Bell

Removal: 3
1.Hallowed Burial - This was Wrath of God until recently, thanks Gravy.
2.Damnation
3.Return to Dust

CounterMagic: 8
1.CounterSpell
2.Hinder
3.Dissipate
4.Cryptic Command
5.Force of Will
6.Pact of Negation
7.Voidslime
8.Timestop

PlanesWalkers: 1
1.Elspeth, Knight Errant

Mana Acceleration: 2
1.Sol Ring
2.Mana Vault

Kill Engines/ Cards: 4
1.Repay in Kind
2.Reverse the Sands(can double as draw with Lich)
3.Exsanguinate(Doubles as draw with Lich)
4.Blue Sun’s Zenith

Land: 38
1.Serra’s Sanctum
2.Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3.Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4.City of Brass
5.Grand Coliseum
6.Reflecting Pool
7.Cabal Coffers
8.Exotic Orchard
9.Forbidden orchard
10.Tolaria West
11.Swamp
12.Plains
13.Island
14.Forest
15.Underground Sea
16.Watery Grave
17.Polluted Delta
18.Sunken Ruins
19.Bayou
20.Overgrown Tomb
21.Verdant Catacomb
22.Scrubland
23.Godless Shrine
24.Marsh Flats
25.Fetid Heath
26.Tundra
27.Hallowed Fountain
28.Flooded Strand
29.Mystic Gate
30.Savannah
31.Temple Garden
32.Windswept Heath
33.Krosan Verge
34.Tropical Island
35.Breeding Pool
36.Misty Rainforest
37.Undiscovered Paradise
38.Reliquary Tower

So again, the deck is really about “Going off” and using Lich plus life gain/ lose effects to make a massive draw and then win the game. The Deck doesn't really intend to pass the turn after dropping Lich, but it may happen. Here are some of the more powerful interactions, in no particular order:
1. Lich + Peace of Mind. Heh look, every card in my hand is a 1 w mana Ancestral recall, I hear that card was good enough that they banned it in EDH…
2.Lich + Words of Worship. So pay one, and skip my draw to…draw 5 cards. That’s cool. Heh I can stack that right? That means draw 1 becomes “pay 6, draw 25 cards”. Cool.
3.Lich + Illusions of Grandeur. Draw 20 cards for 4 mana with NO draw back? Sure thing. (Note here, Lich only triggers on DAMAGE, NOT life Lose. Which brings me too:
4.Lich + Ad Nauseam. Draw cards, with no downside, until it stops being fun, at instant speed.
5.Lich + Delaying Shield. I AM INVINCIBLE!!!! (so long as you don’t nuke lich that is).
Of course Dream Halls and Cadaverous bloom are used as a means to cast spells after a huge draw, especially one that was fueled off a Eureka dropping Lich plus a draw effect into play.
There is a rather ridiculous 5 card infinite mana engine using Azusa, Crucible of Worlds, Ashnod’s Altar, Squandered Resources, and either Nim Deathmantle or Corpse Dance. Of course I can also just Mirari’s Wake + Palinchron.

So what does anyone think? Anyone have any suggestions that Aren’t along the lines of “Lol, your so dumb for playing lich lol”. Questions?

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


Last edited by Courtland on 2011-May-25 9:00 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 12:09 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-08 9:21 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Lol, your so dumb for playing Lich lol

_________________
Current generals:

Thraxiumundar - Sacrifice Effects
Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Shaman Tribal Ramp
Darien, King of Kjeldor - Go Ahead and Attack
Talrand, Sky Summoner - Nothin' but Counters, Bounce & Draw


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 12:15 pm 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
FinalLogic wrote:
Lol, your so dumb for playing Lich lol


Ironic, don't you think, that you Sig mentions Junk-punching...

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 1:09 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-28 9:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Damidhol, Tuhel
Douche/Dirtbag/Jerk/Scum of the Earth etc...but only because I didn't think of it first :)

One card I don't see is Privileged Position, which can save your Lich and other stuff as well. With Sterling Grove in play you are basically untouchable! That morph wizard that redirects spells seems like it would be good here too, and can work against a Grip.

If you are into the Lich theme, there's a card in Ice Age that is like half a Lich - Lim Dul's something or other, it might be OK here, and there is another one from Odyssey or Onslaught (and Lich's Tomb as well!).

All in all it looks like fun, at least until you die - but since you are dead anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter!

_________________
Former StarCityGames.com writer.

Most famous article: Breaking Phage

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc ... Phage.html

Personal Favorite: pWN3D: Recollections of Spectacular Defeats in Multiplayer Magic

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/mult ... Magic.html


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 1:37 pm 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
IGottaBigDeck wrote:
Douche/Dirtbag/Jerk/Scum of the Earth etc...but only because I didn't think of it first :)

One card I don't see is Privileged Position, which can save your Lich and other stuff as well. With Sterling Grove in play you are basically untouchable! That morph wizard that redirects spells seems like it would be good here too, and can work against a Grip.

If you are into the Lich theme, there's a card in Ice Age that is like half a Lich - Lim Dul's something or other, it might be OK here, and there is another one from Odyssey or Onslaught (and Lich's Tomb as well!).

All in all it looks like fun, at least until you die - but since you are dead anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter!


I would also like things like Priveleged position but honestly, the deck is really tight on slots and I don't think I have room for any more shield cards unless they are REALLY amazing. There are TONS of things I would like to add that I just don't have room for (mox diamond comes to mind). As it stand now I am relying sort of heavily on Sterling grove to Shroud my Lich plus counter magic to protect it. City of solitude works too, but I only want that in play if I intend to win that turn no questions, period.

The Original type 1 lich deck that I played back in the day was Eureka + Lich + illusions of Grandeur usually followed by a second Eureka dropping big fat creatures and concordant crossroads. Obviously lich + repay in kind is a bit simpler. The deck is definitely an "ALL IN" combo thats for sure.

I would also like to note that while I have TONS of abusive-seeming draw with lich in play, I only have 2 non-lich-reliant draw spells" timetwister and ad Nauseam (in a deck with a rather shall we say "Stout" cmc).

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 2:33 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-28 9:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Damidhol, Tuhel
Yeah, I get what you are trying to do and it sickens me gladly ;) Back in the day, I used to play Necro with Library of Leng and Ivory Tower to draw my whole deck over a couple turns then drop the whole shebang with Eureka, and Lich was my backup plan. I even wrote an article for StarCity Games on the deck. But I gotta tell ya - at least in my playgroup, if people have seen the deck once they will sit on their Grips just waiting for Lich to appear. They might even Praetor's Grasp it just to keep me away from it! Or Jester's Mask and Mindslaver or Word of Command me so I have to play it! So I always go overboard on protection for my combo pieces personally, but I understand.

How has the Lantern worked for you, by the way? I was wondering if Elixir of Immortality might be better, or a good addition at least. Reshuffling the yard + 'draw five cards' seems decent, and it's reuseable.

In any case I froth at the mouth from the allure of drawing your whole deck, taking yourself to zero, then offing the table all at once. That takes serious cajones!!

_________________
Former StarCityGames.com writer.

Most famous article: Breaking Phage

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc ... Phage.html

Personal Favorite: pWN3D: Recollections of Spectacular Defeats in Multiplayer Magic

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/mult ... Magic.html


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 3:13 pm 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
IGottaBigDeck wrote:
Yeah, I get what you are trying to do and it sickens me gladly ;) Back in the day, I used to play Necro with Library of Leng and Ivory Tower to draw my whole deck over a couple turns then drop the whole shebang with Eureka, and Lich was my backup plan. I even wrote an article for StarCity Games on the deck.


Do you have a link? I would love to look at it.

IGottaBigDeck wrote:
But I gotta tell ya - at least in my playgroup, if people have seen the deck once they will sit on their Grips just waiting for Lich to appear. They might even Praetor's Grasp it just to keep me away from it! Or Jester's Mask and Mindslaver or Word of Command me so I have to play it! So I always go overboard on protection for my combo pieces personally, but I understand.


The deck is actually really New and hasn't yet hit them upside the head. I rather assume that Grips will be held from then on (and I may wel become target Numero-uno), but I am okay with that. As I said, I can always Eureka into Lich+ city of solitude and win the game.

IGottaBigDeck wrote:
How has the Lantern worked for you, by the way? I was wondering if Elixir of Immortality might be better, or a good addition at least. Reshuffling the yard + 'draw five cards' seems decent, and it's reuseable.


My overall experience with Lantern has been good, but I am not attached to it here. In theory it will be awesome with infinite mana, beyond that... its actually odd that I didn't think of Elixir of Immortality since I am running it in Teferi (guess that shows how often I play him). No you are right, Elixir seems really, really good, I may have to give it a try in Leiu of Lantern.

IGottaBigDeck wrote:
In any case I froth at the mouth from the allure of drawing your whole deck, taking yourself to zero, then offing the table all at once. That takes serious cajones!!

For is it not written: "Go Big, or Go HOME!"?

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 3:48 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-28 9:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Damidhol, Tuhel
I can see why you'd want lantern, infinite library restocking is pretty good...maybe find something else to take out for Elixir? It would be interesting to have it in there with Doomsday and Lich in play, to recur five cards over and over again...it could be yet another combo enabler. Oh yeah, you gotta play Doomsday! You are already playing with fate, might as well go all the way!!

I looked in SCG's archives and found that article - man, am I OLD!! And I was a little bit freer with personal information than I should have been, but what the heck (!) - here it is:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/multiplayer/4622_Fun_With_Old_Cards_10_Archimedes_Euphoria_Unleashed.html

I had taken out Lich and most of my lifegain by that time and put in Necro and Bargain + Spellbooks instead, but I had much the same mana/draw engine that you run in yours. All three decks I had listed were a blast to play, but I only got away with it once each time! I think I will dust off my Eurekas again though, it's time...

_________________
Former StarCityGames.com writer.

Most famous article: Breaking Phage

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc ... Phage.html

Personal Favorite: pWN3D: Recollections of Spectacular Defeats in Multiplayer Magic

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/mult ... Magic.html


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 6:14 pm 
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Joined: 2008-May-04 6:05 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Wisconsin
My question is, what happens when Lich goes away, in the graveyard or exiled? I think you need some sort of recursion and of course Riftsweeper. Mirror Universe probably has a spot in this deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 6:54 pm 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
American_Kid wrote:
My question is, what happens when Lich goes away, in the graveyard or exiled?


Unless I have platinum angel in play I loose. Simple. Lich's errata says I loose if lich is put into my graveyard from play, but if lich WAS in play then my life total will be 0 (or less) and I will loose as soon as it leaves play as a state based effect. The goal, thus, is to not LET lich be destroyed or exiled. Drop Lich and win...or die trying.

American_Kid wrote:
I think you need some sort of recursion and of course Riftsweeper. Mirror Universe probably has a spot in this deck.


I am running LOTS of recursion (it has its own section). No, I don't have any way to get back exiled cards, so riftsweeper isn't a bad suggestion, but I can only see needing it in cases where I was jester's caped or Praetor's Grasped and they took my Lich. At the moment I think that is likely to be a rather small corner case. I may be proven wrong however.

On mirror universe. I love the card, honest I do. it makes me feel warm and fuzzy and nostalgic, almost as much as the original Lich combo. In fact mirror universe was the backup win condition in the original lich deck. The main problem is that it only kills one person. I also can't use it the turn I drop it, which means I have to time stretch to use it. If I have Lich in play, and have drawn shit-piles of cards, and am now going to take TWO more turns, I ought to be able to kill the whole table. I think mirror universe is a great card, but so is soul conduit and it isn't in the deck (though it may replace reverse the sands). Ultimately I can only run so many kill cards.

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-18 8:27 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-19 1:49 pm
Age: Dragon
A deck revolving around Lich..

Man, I haven't seen one of those since.. 2000 or so, when Vintage was still the premiere eternal format.

It's an all in combo, but thats part of the appeal!

Anyways, I think one thing you could stand to do is replace Wrath.

I know Wrath is the classic, but at least in EDH, I'd almost always go for Hallowed Burial before Wrath - as Burial deals with Generals and indestructible creatures. If you really need the two mana difference though, run Wrath.


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-19 5:42 am 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
Gravy wrote:
A deck revolving around Lich..

Man, I haven't seen one of those since.. 2000 or so, when Vintage was still the premiere eternal format.

It's an all in combo, but thats part of the appeal!

Anyways, I think one thing you could stand to do is replace Wrath.

I know Wrath is the classic, but at least in EDH, I'd almost always go for Hallowed Burial before Wrath - as Burial deals with Generals and indestructible creatures. If you really need the two mana difference though, run Wrath.


Thats actually a really good suggestion. Hallowed Burial is only 1 mana more than Wrath, and the same amount of white, so it won't change my color balance any. But I think your right. Since I am basically stalling until I can go off, burial seems the better pick since it helps neutralize early aggro Generals that can take me out of the game. I guess I need to hunt down another Hallowed Burial.

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-19 10:46 am 

Joined: 2008-Jun-29 8:18 am
Age: Drake
Have you thought of adding Platinum Emperion? That would protect your life total from becoming 0 and be better protected against krosan grip et. al.


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-19 11:07 am 

Joined: 2010-Apr-02 6:44 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Flyover Country, United States
I did think about the Empyrion for a minute. While he DOES keep my life total from 0-ing out when Lich hits the board thats basically all he does. If I have him in play, and lich, and someone Krosan Grips it, I STILL loose when the Lich hits the yard. Platinum Angel, on the other hand, keeps my ass alive through that.

_________________
My $.10

Generals:

Sharuum, the Hegemon (Currently Foiling)
Scion of the Ur-Dragon (currently Foiling)
Karn, Silver Golem
Hazezon Tamar
Zur the Enchanter
Riku of Two Reflections
Very-nearly-Creatureless Sliver Queen PLaneswalkers (under Construction)
Progenitus - Creatures are for the Weak Retired.
Child of Alara: Lich Combo (under construction)


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 Post subject: Re: Child of Alara Lich Combo
AgePosted: 2011-May-20 12:28 am 

Joined: 2011-Mar-18 10:18 pm
Age: Drake
While I abhor your deck and everything it stands for, I might still be able to suggest a card or two. :P

Would Stifle stop you from losing if Lich dies? If so, so would Trickbind.

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"You're so stupid that when I knock your head off you probably wont even notice!" - Monkey.


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