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 Post subject: Vhati Il-Dal's Bag of -1/-1 Counters
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-25 3:45 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-23 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I've been kicking the idea around for the past couple days and decided I'd ask for your opinions on this before I put money into the cards I don't have (19 in all, marked with *, but mostly real cheap). My original thought looking at vhati was "It would be cool to make a creature have 1 toughness with a -1/-1 counter on it", and it just went from there. He's a good combat manipulator, and I wanted to build something with him. There seems to be a stronger possability for a poison win than I first intended, but the main thing is "-1/-1 counters for everyone", with a subtheme of reanimating my opponent's creatures. I play roughly 60% 1v2-4/40% 1v1, if that matters to you.

Edit: At some point, I stoped running wither, and the deck has shifted to much toward poison to call this anything but a poison deck. Even my "reanimate the enemy" subtheme has faded. I can still do some damage without poison, but probably only enough to mop up someone else's work.

General: Vhati Il-Dal

Gives -1/-1 counters through combat: 16
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Hand of the Praetors
Reaper of Sheoldred
Ichor Rats
Putrefax
Blight Mamba
Rot Wolf
Blightwidow
Plague Stinger
Viridian Corrupter
Ichorclaw Myr
Phyrexian Hydra
Cystbearer
Contagious Nim
Necropede
Core Prowler

Gives -1/-1 counters through abilities: 13
Serrated Biskelion
Serrated Arrows
Skinrender
Carnifex Demon
Grim Poppet
Blowfly Infestation
Plaguemaw Beast
Throne of Geth
Contagion Clasp
Contagion Engine
Virulent Wound
Grim Afliction
Spread the Sickness

Feeds off of -1/-1 counters: 4
Deity of Scars
Wickerbough Elder
Protean Hydra (a -1/-1 knocks off a +1/+1, then he gets 2 +1/+1s)
Power Conduit

Other Removal: 6
Attrition
Indrik Stomphowler
Lux Cannon
Beast Within
Putrefy
Decree of Pain

Tutor/Draw: 7
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Skullclamp
Infiltration Lens
Phyrexian Arena
Diabolic Tutor
Liliana Vess
Primal Command

Recusion: 5
Necroskitter
Puppeteer Clique
Phyrexian Reclaimation
Animate Dead
Mimic Vat


Creature enhancement: 10
Tainted Strike
Berserk
Glistening Oil
Darksteel Plate
Stonewood Invocation
Rancor
Viridian Claw
Livewire Lash
Thousand-Yeah Elixir
Garruk Wildspeaker

Other: 1
Rings of Brighthearth

Land: 37
Terramorphic Expanse
Tainted Wood
Spawning Pool
Treetop Village
18 Swamp
15 Forest



I'm cheap and don't want to pay the $3 for a Contagion Engine, but it's good in a few things I want to do, so I'll probably give in soon. Technically, my buget is however much it takes to buy the listed stuff I don't have, but I could be convinced to pick up nifty things under $5.
I'd like to put in Thornbite Staff, and it would be great on Vhati, but I can't justify it on any other creature. Should I add it anyway?

If you suggest something to add, it would be very helpful if also suggest something to cut.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts/help/advice given.

Update: Purchased cards, playtested, made some changes. The deck seems to wor fairly well and is fun to play. Proliferate is king, and it enables a vess ultimate the turn she hits play.

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Last edited by Rollcage on 2011-Aug-19 4:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vhati Il-Dal's Bag of -1/-1 Counters
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-25 10:25 am 

Joined: 2011-Feb-15 2:31 pm
Age: Wyvern
Props on going at least semi-infect. I think my Glissa deck just fell in love.

Anywho, I say go for the Staff. It can allow your general to nuke everything you dont like with a -1/-1 counter, even indestructible things, it also combos very well with Rot Wolf for both end of turn shenanigans and drawing cards off of things that are about to die. And then there's Necroskitter to steal things that are about to die, too.

Mortarpod, in my experience, proved less than worth it for just 1 poison or -1/-1 counter, so I suppose that's a switch I would make.

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 Post subject: Re: Vhati Il-Dal's Bag of -1/-1 Counters
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-25 2:55 pm 
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Joined: 2010-May-25 1:10 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Nomad Outpost, Tarkir
As someone who's play Vhati il-Dal(props on the general choice, glad I'm not the only one) I can say I've been less than satisfied with Thornbite Staff. It's the equip cost. It's clunky and I hate paying the cost. Thousand-Year Elixir is even better, ability haste is good and it can untap any creature, though it got eventually cut form my list as well. If you want repeated kill, may I suggest darkblast as a dredgeable terminate with Vhati? Kills anything without a buff.

I actually wrote a primer for Vhati over on MTGS if you'd like to take a look. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=285511

Enjoy!

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 Post subject: Re: Vhati Il-Dal's Bag of -1/-1 Counters
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-25 6:33 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-23 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
3drinks wrote:
I actually wrote a primer for Vhati over on MTGS if you'd like to take a look.

Yeah, after I posted this I thought to check Filth's list of generals for Vhati, and found your link to that primer. It looks good, but there are a few Vhati-happy cards I can't use in this build, like Night of Souls' Betrayal and Pestilence stuff, since I have several small creatures.

Reading it again, I want to get a Geth, Lord of the Vault and Crypt Rats (which I forgot existed) in here. Maybe a Coffin Queen. I also find myself lacking black sweeps, both in deck and in collection. As for Darkblast, I don't have the mentallity to dredge without building around it.

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 Post subject: Re: Vhati Il-Dal's Bag of -1/-1 Counters
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-25 11:10 pm 
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Joined: 2010-May-25 1:10 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Nomad Outpost, Tarkir
Rollcage wrote:
3drinks wrote:
I actually wrote a primer for Vhati over on MTGS if you'd like to take a look.

Yeah, after I posted this I thought to check Filth's list of generals for Vhati, and found your link to that primer. It looks good, but there are a few Vhati-happy cards I can't use in this build, like Night of Souls' Betrayal and Pestilence stuff, since I have several small creatures.

Reading it again, I want to get a Geth, Lord of the Vault and Crypt Rats (which I forgot existed) in here. Maybe a Coffin Queen. I also find myself lacking black sweeps, both in deck and in collection. As for Darkblast, I don't have the mentallity to dredge without building around it.


Oh snap, I forgot I made an update to it on http://www.AZmagicplayers.com but I didn't reflect that on MTGS. I swapped out Crypt Rats for Thrashing Wumpus as from what I can tell, Wumpus is just better. Even if you put just one into rats, they still die. Wumpus you can pump up to two into each turn, and still keep him around to tell the tale.

Night of Souls' Betrayal is a very powerful card(it's that interaction I originally built the whole deck around) it will prove invaluable when against b/r wort, boggart auntie or similar decks like rhys the redeemed. I'd recommend you run it, but if not, you can always use Ascendant Evincar instead(I personally think Evincar isn't as efficient since it doesn't work on black creatures though). If you're worried about them dying, just remember you can always recur them(well, I can, since I play lots of recursion including the grand daddy of recursion in volrath's stronghold) or, alternatively, just don't commit to the board. i.e. don't play your coffin queen if the correct play is to drop the enchantment and start keeping dudes in check.

As for the dredge thing, it's understandable, I play only two dredge cards(the other being of course life from the loam though I've considered nightmare void for the pinpoint hand disruption) knowing that I can get whatever I dredge out back at some point if I need it. True there are times when you get unlucky and get a bad dredge...but that doesn't stop me because the re-usability of the cards is amazing(I'm sure I don't need to explain to you the power of an active Loam). The key is the dredge number. I used to play golgari grave-trollbut the dredge 6 just got to me. dredge 3 is much more manageable, and on top of that, will usually get me at least one more land in the 'yard to make for a better LftL.

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MTG: Commander (I play Mardu and Mardu Accessories)

Alesha, Who Smiles at Death [Duel-Commander]
Kaalia of the Vast [Traditional 1v1 Primer]
Drana, Liberator of Malakir [Sui Black]
Zurgo Bellstriker [AiR]


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