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 Post subject: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Queen)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-04 12:35 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
This is a 5-color combo /tapout control deck that uses a Sliver Subtheme. I was running Horde of Notions for a long time as General, but found it wasn;t a sufficient threat, or (more often) a good enough wall to protect my Planeswalkers and the things that really matter. I switched to Sliver Queen (a better body, faster clock by 1 turn, and producer of a stream of chump blockers), and quickly realized the deck wanted Winged Sliver to make her a Flying Threat/Wall. From there, the conclusion that Sliver Overlord would to a better job of this (by tutoring up the Winged Sliver) quickly led down a small Sliver package. I don't like most of the combat Slivers though, so this isn;t a traditional Sliver deck. Here's the list, I'll talk about the choices afterward:

General:

Sliver Queen(Japanese)

Planeswalkers (7)
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Sorin Markov
Venser, the Sojourner
Tezzeret, the Seeker(Foil)
Jace the Mind Sculptor
Elspeth, Knight Errant(Foil)
Garruk Wildspeaker

Rediculous (3)
Rite of Replication(Foil)
Genesis Wave(Foil)
Blatant Thievery

Combo Elements (10)

- Subcatagory - Recursion
Eternal Wittness(5th dawn Foil)
Reveillark(Foil)
Mnemonic Wall (Foil)
Riftsweeper (Foil)
Karmic Guide

-Subcatagory - Trigger/Ability Abuses
Doubling Season (Foil)
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker(Foil)
Rings of Brighthearth(Foil)

-Subcatagory- Sacrifice outlets
Goblin Bombardment(Foil)
Claws of Gix(Timeshifted Foil)

Equipment (5)
Sword of Light and Shadow
Lightning Greaves (Foil)
Skullclamp(Foil)
Winged Sliver(Japanese)
Firewild Sliver (Foil)

Sweepers (6)
Massacre Wurm
Decree of Pain
Obliterate (Foil)
Contaigion Engine(Foil)
Wrath of God(Textless Foil)
Damnation(Textless Foil)

Spot Removal (8)
Angel of Despair
Duplicant (Foil)
Faith's Fetters (Foil)
Oblivion Ring(Foil Shards)
Bant Charm(Japanese Foil)
Archon of Justice
Swords to Plowshares(FOIL!)
Maze of Ith (Judge Foil)

"Oh-Shit" Button (3)
Mindbreak Trap(Foil)
Mana Drain (english signed)
Cryptic Command (promo foil)

Card Draw (7)
Future Sight (Foil)
Mamory Jar(Foil)
Mulldrifter(Foil)
Timetwister
Sensei's Divining Top(FTV Foil)
Consecrated Sphinx
Arcanis the Omnipotent

Tutor (5)
Trinket Mage(5th Dawn Foil)
Survival of the Fittest(Korean)
Mystical Tutor(Foil)
Demonic Tutor(Angels vs Demons)
Vampiric Tutor(Foil)

Mana Ramp/Fixing (9)
Primeval Titan
Mana Reflection (Foil)
Mirari's Wake (Foil)
Gilded Lotus
Oracle of Mul Daya(Japanese Foil)
Crucible of Worlds (Foil)
Prismatic Omen(Japanese Foil)
Gemhide Sliver(German Foil)
Sol Ring (Judge Foil)

Lands (36)
All Revised Duals
All Onslaught/Zendikar Fetchlands
1 Each Basic Land (all Zen full art Foil, Plains and Island Asian)
Godless Shrine
Hallowed Fountain
Temple Garden
Breeding Pool

City of Brass(Judge Foil)
Reflecting Pool(Tempest)

Volrath's Stronghold
Strip Mine(Foil)
Minamo, School at the Water's Edge (Foil)
Reliquary Tower(Foil)
Temple of the False God(Foil)


Choices

For my flagship EDH deck (I also have a Gethfor a change of pace and a Vendillion Cliquefor 1v1 tournaments only because it's very douchy), I wanted a deck that can assume any role and play well in multiplayer and duels. Sliver Queenis a fast clock that can become evasive quickly and is suported by a strong equipment package, allowing it to assume an aggro role when appropriate. The rest of the deck is built on synergies and is great at controlling the board and comboing out.

Synergies

The Sliver Package - Overlord often tutors up Winged Sliver first if I have a 'Walker or two on board to protect. Then it gets the Queen. Necrotic Sliver allows an endless stream of Vindicates, and Gemhide is excellent fixing and Ramp with the Queen, plus there are some non-obvious infinite combos with it, ie:
Queen+Gemhide+Doubling Season+ Lightning Greaves = infinite (tapped) Slivers. Add Mana Reflection and it becomes infinite mana and infinite attackers or infinite damage with Goblin Bombardment or Infinite life with Claws of Gix.
I added Firewild sliver because I wanted a Sliver's gain Haste effect and another sac outlet. It can get really good for general damage as well.

Reveillark + Karmic Guide+ Goblin Bombardment - infinite damage.

Genesis Wave+ Mana Ramp + most of the cards in the deck are permanants - I rarely whiff on a Wave, and have had situations where in Wave my entire deck into play, then use Elixir of Immortaility to refill my library or use Kiki-Jiki + Eternal Wittness to regrow and cast Timetwister to refill my library and hand. This card is one of my favourite spells in the deck. Once, I Waved my whole deck into play, floated some mana, cast Timetwister, tutored up the Wave again, and spat my whole deck back out onto the table again. A Stylish win from what can be a boarderline douchy deck.

Doubling Season + Planeswalkers - Bolas comes in and goes Ultimate right away. With Contaigion Engine most of the walkers can go off (and even survive) on casting with the Season in play.

Rings of Brighthearth + lots - this card is just the stone cold nuts in this deck. Between the Planeswalkers, Kiki-Jiki, the Fetchlands, Saffi, Sliver Overlord, even Sensei's Top has been relevant.

Crucible + Strip Mine + Rings - yes it's one of the more douchy things the deck can do, and I don't normally go this route, but it's there if I need it. Add Oracle of Mul Daya for even Douchier behavior. (this is a play i reserve for Tournaments, or if someone is being a real Dick one-vs-one).

Kiki-Jiki + ETB triggers - Kiki loves him some Acidic Slime, Duplicant, Mulldrifter, Primeval Titan, Wittness, etc.... This can get really stupid in a Reveillark loop. Add Rings of Brightheart for extra fun!

etc, etc, etc....

Oh, and I keep Pestermite in the sideboard. When it was in the deck, every game turned into - find Survival, Get Kiki-Jiki and Mite in the yard, get 'Lark, Kiki-Mite. While I do like to have a combo or two available, I don;t want a deck with only one clear optimal line of play every game. That said, soemtimes people show up with nasty decks and the gloves must come off. Without Mite, Survival is not an instant win. I like it better that way.
Edit: Jan 13th

Dropped some of the utility lands, including Valakut, for a Reliquary tower (I often end up with tons of card in hand) and 1/2 of the Ravnica Dual lands cycle in the colors I msot often find myself wanting in multiples. The mana base is more consistant now.

I also dropped a few lesser removal spells and such like for a Cryptic Command and a Mana drain.

Edit: Jan 24th

Sliver Overlord made the deck too consistant. It was too easy to combo out once I added the Firewild Sliver, and every game was starting to go the same way. I like a powerful deck, but I want games to be variable and fun, so I switched generals.

Wargate was very meh. I found I wanted one more Giant Bomb spell, and I had a Japanese Foil Time Stretch laying around, so I made the cut. Now the deck has the ability to go infinite on every axis, whcih I like, but requires 3-5 cards for every combo, which I also like.

Edit: Feb 28th

This is getting close to the final version of the deck. I hated Time Stretch, it never did what I wanted to do so I cut it. I added in a Riftsweeper becuase I got tired of my favourite cards getting exiled. I also had one game where it enabled an insanely luckly turn- It was late into the game. I had a big board that consisted of, among other things, Survival of the Fittest, Future Sight, Mana Reflection, Goblin Bombardment and a bunch of land and Slivers, including Gemhide Sliver.

I floated a ton of mana and cast Decree of Annhillation. Subsequent to the Decree, I managed to draw some cards, search up Reveillark, Karmic Guide, and Riftsweeper, get all my exiled cards back, then cast a big enough Genesis Wave to put every permanant in my deck on to the battlefield. I then cast Timetwister and ended the turn with all my stuff in play and a full grip. I love playing a deck that can do stuff like this :twisted:

I also cut Tower of the Magistrate (moved to SB) for Minamo. Pseudo-vigillance is really good with the Queen, and it has some nice interactions with Kiki-Jiki and the like. Plus I picked up a foil one and needed a space for it. Yes I'm silly.

Edit: March 2nd

Ok, I think I've arrived at the final version. Sliver Overlord was super boring and actually underperformign in the deck, so I cut him, and without him, natural selection was also pointless. Finally, Elixir of Immortality was redundant- I was only using it on the occaision that I Genesis Waved for my entire library, in which case I can just use Eternal Witness or new inclusion Mnemonic Wall to get back Timetwister (not that I need to, since that situation results in several infinite combos and a clear win). I added in Archon of Justice, mainly as the deck wanted a flying rattlesnake and another exile effect, blatant theivery since I like at least one way to gain control of permanants and this one is the best available bar none, and Mnemonic Wall, as an earlier blocker was desirable and the deck is at its most powerful when recurring absurd bombs.

Edit: March 22nd - see new post- all future edits will be in new posts

_________________
Current Commanders:

Norin the Wary (chaos control)
Talrand (mono-U tempo/Proteus Staff combo)


Last edited by Killane on 2011-Apr-07 8:35 am, edited 12 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-05 8:52 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
To be Pimped

This section is for my own benefit so I can keep track of what I have left that I "need" to pimp the deck fully to my standard (at least English Foil or better, Asian for any non-foil available cards):

Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker - need to upgrade to foil
Sorin Markov - need to upgrade to foil
Venser, the Sojourner- need to upgrade to foil
Jace the Mind Sculptor - need to upgrade to foil (ouch)
Garruk Wildspeaker - need to upgrade to foil
Karmic Guide- need to upgrade to foil (will be hard to find)
Sword of Light and Shadow - need to upgrade to foil
Massacre Wurn- need to upgrade to foil
Decree of Pain - need to upgrade to foil
Angel of Depair - need to upgrade to foil
Archon of Justice - need to upgrade to foil
Demonic Tutor - need to upgrade to foil
Primeval Titan - need to upgrade to foil
Gilded Lotus - need to upgrade to foil
All Revised Duals - need to upgrade to FBB or full art boarderless alters (ouch)
All Onslaught/Zendikar Fetchlands - need to upgrade to foil
Godless Shrine - need to upgrade to foil
Hallowed Fountain - need to upgrade to foil
Temple Garden - need to upgrade to foil
Breeding Pool - need to upgrade to foil
Reflecting Pool(Tempest) - need to upgrade to foil Shadowmoor
Volrath's Stronghold - need to upgrade to Korean (ouch)

Timetwister - need to upgrade to Beta (very ouch)

_________________
Current Commanders:

Norin the Wary (chaos control)
Talrand (mono-U tempo/Proteus Staff combo)


Last edited by Killane on 2011-Apr-05 1:44 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-05 3:36 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-02 3:12 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Seattle Area
Mana Echoes is amazing with the queen or any other slivers coming into play, and Aura shards along with the sliver that does the same thing should be an auto include.

Other than that, it looks good!

_________________
Current Generals:
Kaervek
Oloro
Karametra

Recently had 16 EDH decks stolen from me, so im rebuilding slowly and im back up to 3.


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-05 4:04 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jan-04 3:39 pm
Age: Drake
Mindbreak Trap seems questionable. Mana Drain appears strictly better given your "budget."

The relative utility of Survival of the Fittest is unclear to me without having played the deck. In particular, your odds of having a critter in hand before your general comes online seem fairly low. Would Eladamri's Call be reasonable instead?

I'm also surprised that you don't run Mana Crypt despite having plenty of colorless mana outlets.

Return to Dust vs Aura Shards is a question of your ability to crank out critters and your meta's demands for instant-speed removal. I'd also consider Maelstrom Pulse in that slot. We have several token lovers locally, not sure what your meta looks like.

Given the omission of Mind Twist, I assume there are no duels?


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-05 7:48 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
I have run Drain in the Trap slot before. I have had a number of issues with being Obliterated recently, and there is a local Storm deck as well. It may go back, espeically now that the 3rd concern (Emrakul) is no longer an issue. I do have a Drain without a home right now (since no one plays Vintage anymore and my other Drain lives in my Clique deck).

While the odds are somewhat low, Survival gets really dumb both mid and late game. Since most games last for many turns, the first few (say, 5, before Generalissimo gets online) don't make as much of a difference as the last few. Survival + Rings is just incredibly stupid, and often results in instant wins by chaining into (ultimately) Reveillark, Saffi, and something else really dumb (like duplicant, or Kiki-Jiki). They loop through Bombardment infinitely.

And yes, I could make this even more consistant by adding Pestermite. I do so when there are large numbers of douche decks at the table, or when playing competitive duels. Survival then turns into: GGG, evoke 'LArk, win.

I like Mana Crypt as much as the next guy, and sure I've got one (what self-resepcting TPS player doesn't), but where would it fit in? The color-fixing of Coalition Relic (combined with the synergy with Doubling Season and Rings of Brighthearth) makes it a better choice in this deck, and all the other mana ramp is actually better in the long game. I've literally sat with a Crypt at one point, compared it to every single slot in the deck, and decided they all fill their role better. If I could run 101, Crypt would be in.

I'm still up in the air on Shards vs Return to Dust. I wish Harmonic Sliver was a "may" but I have WAYYY to many good artifacts/enchantments to run it. There are not that many Token decks (and no good ones) around here, so Pulse it out.

AS an aside, I do like to keep the deck as permanant-heavy as possible. I hate whiffing on Genesis Waves lol. Obviously from the list though, I don't take this to extremes.

The main deck is for Muliplayer and most duels. If I'm in a tournament that I REALLY want to win (or the opponent is running Zur, Sharrum, Azami, Asuza or Clique), Then I have Identity Crisis as my Mind Twist of Choice out of the board. Same with Pestermite, Karmic Guide, and a Dimir House Guard to turn Survival into an instant win. I also run a Sword of Body and Mind, and a few flexable slots.

Of course, if it's that critical I usually pull out my highly optimized Clique deck. It's.... unfair, to say the least. I've lost with it, sure. Twice. Once on a mulligan to 4 (not one land before 4 mana, or anything remotely worth keeping in hope of drawing a land. Highly improbable), in which the game was still close, and once in a mirror match with another Clique deck played by a superior player (local ex-pro).

You're... rather good at math, Duck. What would you say my odds of drawing at least one creature by turn 4 are?

_________________
Current Commanders:

Norin the Wary (chaos control)
Talrand (mono-U tempo/Proteus Staff combo)


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-06 10:58 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-04 3:39 pm
Age: Drake
Killane wrote:
I have run Drain in the Trap slot before. I have had a number of issues with being Obliterated recently, and there is a local Storm deck as well. It may go back, espeically now that the 3rd concern (Emrakul) is no longer an issue. I do have a Drain without a home right now (since no one plays Vintage anymore and my other Drain lives in my Clique deck).

If Obliterate is your main concern, I'd consider running both. Drain just seems dumb with all of the powerful outlets you have for the mana.

Quote:
While the odds are somewhat low, Survival gets really dumb both mid and late game.

Fair enough. That's the same reason I run Survival over Call.

Quote:
I like Mana Crypt as much as the next guy, and sure I've got one (what self-resepcting TPS player doesn't), but where would it fit in? The color-fixing of Coalition Relic (combined with the synergy with Doubling Season and Rings of Brighthearth) makes it a better choice in this deck, and all the other mana ramp is actually better in the long game. I've literally sat with a Crypt at one point, compared it to every single slot in the deck, and decided they all fill their role better. If I could run 101, Crypt would be in.

I'd actually consider it in a land slot since you don't need a land in hand to drop it. Valakut and Tower of the Magistrate appear to be the most unusual inclusions. Many of your cards are so much better two turns earlier (see: Garruk, Primeval Titan, Elspeth, and your other acceleration) that leaving this out in favor of a land with conditional utility is questionable.

Quote:
I'm still up in the air on Shards vs Return to Dust. I wish Harmonic Sliver was a "may" but I have WAYYY to many good artifacts/enchantments to run it. There are not that many Token decks (and no good ones) around here, so Pulse it out.

What's the difference between a Return to Dust and a Harmonic Sliver sitting in your hand when there are no targets?

Quote:
The main deck is for Muliplayer and most duels. If I'm in a tournament that I REALLY want to win (or the opponent is running Zur, Sharrum, Azami, Asuza or Clique), Then I have Identity Crisis as my Mind Twist of Choice out of the board. Same with Pestermite, Karmic Guide, and a Dimir House Guard to turn Survival into an instant win. I also run a Sword of Body and Mind, and a few flexable slots.

My thought on assembling late game combos is that most players will be trying to do it and some generals lend themselves to it better than yours. My local meta isn't as competitive, but I don't think assembling a many card combo in the late game is the best choice against generals that are effectively one-card combos with your opponent's entire deck? That's the reasoning behind my Armageddon strategy: an opponent who can't do anything is a goldfish no matter what their strategy is.

Quote:
Of course, if it's that critical I usually pull out my highly optimized Clique deck. It's.... unfair, to say the least. I've lost with it, sure. Twice. Once on a mulligan to 4 (not one land before 4 mana, or anything remotely worth keeping in hope of drawing a land. Highly improbable), in which the game was still close, and once in a mirror match with another Clique deck played by a superior player (local ex-pro).

Thankfully, anti-casual decks are not a concern in my playgroup.

Quote:
You're... rather good at math, Duck. What would you say my odds of drawing at least one creature by turn 4 are?

You have considerable tutoring and you could mull aggressively. The better question is the relative utility of digging hard for a creature. Just the raw stats on getting NONE of your 11 creature cards from your 99 card deck: (88! / 77!) / (99! / 88!) = 0.25391412 = 25%


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-07 1:05 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
Thanks for the Math.

Harmonic Sliver can be problematic not with sitting in my hand, but if churning out lots of Slivers with the Queen.

Tower is awesome at un-equipping stuff. That's my fav use. People always forget about if.
Valakut is VERY questionable indeed. It's kind of a "pet card" type thing. The deck isn;t supposed to be super optimized to the Nth degree (again, that's what Clique is for). Then again is is appealing. Very appealing. I'll give it some thought. Nice suggestion!

Drain is very dumb. Maybe I'll sit back down and see if I can find room. (grumbles)lol

_________________
Current Commanders:

Norin the Wary (chaos control)
Talrand (mono-U tempo/Proteus Staff combo)


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-07 2:17 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jan-04 3:39 pm
Age: Drake
Killane wrote:
Harmonic Sliver can be problematic not with sitting in my hand, but if churning out lots of Slivers with the Queen.[/card]

You have many sac outlets, one of which is a sliver. Again, without playing your deck I'm underqualified to comment, but it would surprise me if you couldn't find a way to kill it.

Quote:
Tower is awesome at un-equipping stuff. That's my fav use.

I just ordered one. Completely missed that interaction.

Quote:
Valakut is VERY questionable indeed. It's kind of a "pet card" type thing. The deck isn;t supposed to be super optimized to the Nth degree (again, that's what Clique is for). Then again is is appealing. Very appealing. I'll give it some thought. Nice suggestion!

Glad I could help. Even with pet decks, winning is usually more fun than not.

Quote:
Drain is very dumb. Maybe I'll sit back down and see if I can find room. (grumbles)lol

Drain is painfully dumb and you definitely have the colorless outlets.


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-13 11:35 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
update- dropped some utility lands for better fixing, added Mana Drain and Cryptic Command

_________________
Current Commanders:

Norin the Wary (chaos control)
Talrand (mono-U tempo/Proteus Staff combo)


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-14 1:06 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jan-04 3:39 pm
Age: Drake
Promise of Power now seems like the weakest card in the deck. I don't supposed you'd cut that for the Mana Crypt?

The rest looks very solid.


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Overlord)
AgePosted: 2011-Jan-17 9:20 am 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
LOL no. Promise of Power has been Amazing for me on many occaisions. Draw 5 for 5 mana is awesome, the life loss is rarely relevant, adn there are times when I don;t want to opposing players to get what they want out of a Timetwister. The deck is good at drawing cards, but only just barely- I would nto want to go any lower on draw effects.

_________________
Current Commanders:

Norin the Wary (chaos control)
Talrand (mono-U tempo/Proteus Staff combo)


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Queen)
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-14 10:00 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-04 3:39 pm
Age: Drake
Any interest in the new MBS Sword of Feast and Famine? Getting to untap seems pretty sick in your deck.

I'm also interested how Wurmcoil Engine would perform in your deck?


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Queen)
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-14 1:01 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
Yeah, I just dropped far too much money on a legacy deck after I got REALLY FUCKING TIRED of running counterbalance, so I've been trying to trade for the new sword but I've had no takers so far at any value I'd care to consider. I agree the untap seems really really sick here.

Wurmcoil Engine would likly be pretty decent, it's just a good card all around, but I'm not a big fan of running big beaters unless they are : A) completely insane (Primeval Titan) or B) Slivers (the Overlord and the general). I think i'd include Legion before Wurmcoil, but right now it's languishing in the sideboard.

_________________
Current Commanders:

Norin the Wary (chaos control)
Talrand (mono-U tempo/Proteus Staff combo)


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Queen)
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-15 7:16 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-04 3:39 pm
Age: Drake
My thought on Wurmcoil was pretty much the same until I tried it. The resistance to sweepers and ability to stop Eldrazi single-handedly turns out to be pretty relevant.


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 Post subject: Re: 5 Color Control with a Sliver subtheme (Sliver Queen)
AgePosted: 2011-Feb-15 2:39 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-28 8:44 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Hamilton, ON
IDK what I'd take out for it though. Everything is so synergistic at this point.

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Current Commanders:

Norin the Wary (chaos control)
Talrand (mono-U tempo/Proteus Staff combo)


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