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 Post subject: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-05 11:17 am 
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Joined: 2011-Mar-29 8:30 am
Age: Drake
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch decklist below

I am trying to rebuild my Lyzolda deck, which I loved about a year and a half ago and took apart for other decks I was building at the time. Now that I am on this site I can get some other's perspectives on this deck.

I need to cut cards from the deck and add some.

I need advice on ad-value synergies that maybe I am missing...

This deck generally wants cheap creatures to eat and you constanly want to leave two up for lyz's ability so I am not trying to throw titans and big creatures into the deck unless you can make a good case for it...they usually sit in my hand because this deck uses mana to sac creatures constantly for draw and damage. I have added a knight subtheme because I love Haakon, Stromgald Scourge I think he is cool and there are some pretty good knights you can bring out from the grave useing his ablilty to play knights from the grave! :)

If you suggest a card please help remove a card because I already have too many, if you remove a card I would love your feedback as to why?

General: Lyzolda, the Blood Witch

35 Creatures

Creatures 1 drop
Carrion Feeder
Dragonmaster Outcast

Creatures 2 drop
Ashling the Pilgrim
Bloodghast
Golgari Thug
Mogg War Marshal

Creatures 3 drop
Anathemancercan be a finisher
Fleshbag Marauder
Fulminator Mage (pesky land removal)
Haakon, Stromgald Scourge (supports a knight subtheme)
Pyre Zombie
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Stinkweed Imp
Undead Gladiator
Manic Vandal (pesky artifact removal)
Phyrexian Crusader (Knight)

Creatures 4 drop
Anger
Ashenmoor Liege (Knight)
Faceless Butcher very awesome removal
Flesh-Eater Imp win condition this deck runs tons of tokens and sac creatures
Hero of Oxid Ridge (Knight)
Marsh Flitter
Mindslicerthis card is really awesome sure we all lose our hands but I play from the grave
Murderous Redcap
Sengir Autocrat - tokens
Skinrender
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed

Creatures 5 drop
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
Guiltfeeder possible win condition
Shriekmaw
Siege-Gang Commander

Creature 6 drop
Homura, Human Ascendant win condition
Skarrgan Firebird still not sure about this one...it just sounded good?

Atifacts (10 artifacts)
Sensei's Divining Top
Sol Ring
Basilisk Collar great with my general! part of me wants to putGoblin Sharpshooter in here for wrath on opponent side
Nim Deathmantle
Lightning Greaves
Heartstone cheaper general activation cost
Darksteel Plate
Mimic Vat
Loxodon Warhammer
Spine of Ish Sah this deck needs enchantment removal bad!

Recursion cards 8 maybe too many...? + my two lands, xia-dun, and haakon
Phyrexian Reclamation
Reanimate
Tortured Existence
Oversold Cemetery
Grim Harvest
Dawn of the Dead
Torrent of Souls
Beacon of Unrest

Draw
Phyrexian Arena
Necropotence
Skullclamp
Wheel of Fortune

Search - in all honesty I hate search, you go for the same junk you always do and its boring but, this deck relies alot on its general and it getting tucked would just be aweful!
Buried Alive this is for my knight subtheme go get Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and two other knights and you can recur knights all day long, "sweet suzie!"
Vampiric Tutor for my general mostly

Mass removal
Black Sun's Zenith
Nevinyrral's Disk
Oblivion Stone

Token Enchantments
Bitterblossom
Goblin Assault

misc
Bloodchief Ascension
Sarkhan the Mad
Shattering Pulse
Grave Pact

!!!!(68 non-lands is way too much obviously but, I am not sure what to cut)!!!

non-basic lands
Unholy Grotto
Volrath's Stronghold
Strip Mine
Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace


I want to run at least 36 lands but, I can't do that til I start cutting cards

any help provided is very welcome and appreciated


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-05 1:25 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-23 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I think you should take out:
Skarrgan firebird--Play fo 6, sac for 2, recur for 3. 5RRRRRR is way too much for your deck to put into reusing one creature.
Sarkhan the mad--I just don't quite think it fits. You could use the mana to sac/draw instead of the -x without taking a slot for Sarkhan, and you can't get much out of the ultimate. I guess making dragons is nice, though.
Tortured existance--With oversold cemetary, dawn of the dead, and phyrexian reclaimation, tortured existance is kind of unnecessary, while costing you a card.
Grim harvest--With oversold cemetary, dawn of the dead, and phyrexian reclaimation, grim harvest is kind of unnecessary, while costing you 5 mana (as oposed to none or 1B) every time you want to reuse it.

Switch out:
Shattering Pulse for Ingot Chewer--Ingot chewer will cost you one less as a one-shot, you can sac it to Lyzolda, and it's easily recurable without spending 4 mana (unless you like it with deathmantle). Sadly, it's not instant speed, but it's a better fit overall, I'd say.

If you stop right there and don't disagree strongly, it cuts your deck down to 100.

Put in:
Changeling Berserker--It's a knight. You pay 5R to play it (maybe from the grave), temporarily exile an EtB creature, sac it for 2 damage, and enjoy an EtB trigger. If Hakkon, repeat.
Nameless Inversion--It's a knight. Good against slivers and other tribal pump. If Hakkon, abuse thoroughly.
Blades of Velis Vel--It's a knight. Sometimes adding creature types can really help or hinder people. If Hakkon, superpump two creatures.
Phyrexian Altar--A must with the master breeder, or any token theme. With altar and breeder, you play a creature, get thrulls equal to it's casting cost, and have mana for saccing. If Hakkon, your knights (changeling berserker, anybody?) become infinitely replayable and infinitely saccable.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-06 6:31 am 
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Joined: 2011-Apr-02 4:19 pm
Age: Wyvern
Rollcage's suuggestions on removal make sense. I would definitely also go for Pyre Zombie. Very mana intensive for a small gain. Not a huge fan Sengir Autocrat but I can understand its use. I would also get rid of Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace.

Cards that might be useful:
Miren, the Moaning Well
High Market
These 2 lands as additional sac outlets. Small utility generals like yours can be taken out easily so you can always use hard to kill stuff to still use the spare creatures.

Bojuka Bog
Graveyard hate that doesn't cost you a cardslot. Too good to pass up.

Phyrexian Plaguelord
Corpse Dance (Possibly replace Dawn of the Dead)
The Plaguelord / Corpse Dance package is one of my favorite cogs in any sort fo sac/recursion deck. Your deck has enough sac effects so that the exile should almost never happen. Added bonus is that more sac effects means more Faceless Butcher abuse.

Diabolic Intent
Black is famous for its tutors and Diabolic intent is almost as good as demonic if you have spare tokens lying around.

Dimir House Guard
I always found 4 a very important converted mana cost to tutor for. Disk, Xiahou, Grave Pact. Added bonus that he can be gotten back with one of your recursion effects or when in play acts as a sac outlet if you need to stop huge non trampling bruisers.

Filth
You'd be surprised how many swamps are lying around. "Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth you say? Guess none of you can block my guys now." Especially strong since you allready are playing buried alive. And if you draw it, easily sacced.

Just a few more cards you could consider, but they are more dependant on your local playgroup and popular decks aroud your area.
Gate to Phyrexia
If artifacts are all over the place, this can be handy
The Abyss
Very good against the fattie decks, at least until the Spearbreaker Behemoth shows up
Chains of Mephistopheles
You have almost no cards that trigger extra draws and trust me that it completely wrecks those pesky blue players.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-07 9:55 am 
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Joined: 2011-Mar-29 8:30 am
Age: Drake
Thanks for the Advice!

@Rollcage

At your suggestion I am "Removing" the follOwing:
-Pyre Zombie @ (Exhumo's suggestion)
-Sarkhan the Mad
-Skarrgan Firebird
-Grim Harvest
-Tortured exhistance
-Shattering Pulse
also...
Hero of Oxid Ridge I don't Own one :)

"Adding" the follOwing:
+Ingot Chewer
+Changeling Berserker
+Nameless Inversion

I want to add:
Phyrexian Altar & Blades of Velis Vel, but can't figure out wha to Remove for them.

also adding:
+Avatar of Woe
+Avatar of Fury

b/c they both cost two when conditions are met and in EDH they usually are.

unfortunately that puts me at 66 non-land cards and I still need to hard cut 3 cards

@Exhumo

I like your suggestions
Corpse Dance is good I have used it but my creatures are pretty small for its five cost effect not to mention Lyzolda's effect cost two come into play effects taken into account and free sac engines may make this a very viable choice though...but once again what do I cut to make it worth my while? I guess I could cut Dawn of the Dead "I like your combo with Plaguelord!"

yes Dimir House Guard is awesome! my only problem is that is another search card, I don't really like too much search or your deck plays the same way evey time and yes if I use dimir housegaurd I will plobably always go for Grave Pact it is a p0werhouse and my playgroup will hate me for it :( I will still consider it, but again I need to take out cards to put some in.

+Bojuka Bog is a must should be easy to make that happen.
+High Market
+ Diamond ValleyI do Own one of these or is Miren, the Moaning Well better because it provides mana?


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-07 12:44 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-23 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Jest wrote:
"Adding" the follOwing:
+Ingot Chewer
+Changeling Berserker
+Nameless Inversion

I want to add:
Phyrexian Altar & Blades of Velis Vel, but can't figure out wha to Remove for them.

also adding:
+Avatar of Woe
+Avatar of Fury

b/c they both cost two when conditions are met and in EDH they usually are.

unfortunately that puts me at 66 non-land cards and I still need to hard cut 3 cards

I think it's 4 cards, actually. If you don't add phyrexian altar and blades of velis vel, and instead cut 2 cards, you'll be set. I'd say:
Skinrender--With woe going in, you won't need this as much. As long as woe can tap, it's already done a better job for (hopefully) 2 less. In case of indestructible, you'll still have 6 or 7 other cards.
Stinkweed Imp--Same as skinrender. Unless you want the dredge out of it, but you look more focused on the saccing than the recuring, so I'd worry about dredge.

You might also cut:
Guiltfeeder--I don't like it, and I don't think it fits the deck, but I'll at least admit that it can be really damn good someimes. Especially with fear. That there is the worst reasoning I've ever given for cutting a card, but I'm pretty serious about it not fitting. Also, if you see a lot of graveyard hate, he turns to crap.
Dragonmaster Outcast--I'm not really sure about this cut (because I haven't played it, myself), but I wanted to throw it out there. It's a 1/1 that requires you to have five lands to get a token. Early, you can get dragons. Later, it can die to anything, like the stuff they would otherwise use to take care of your dragons. If you can get (or have gotten) good use out of this, I'd like to hear about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-07 1:10 pm 

Joined: 2011-Mar-03 12:40 pm
Age: Dragon
Entomb is probably pretty solid too. Not as great as Buried Alive obviously, but you have enough Knights to expect to draw one naturally, so getting Haakon seems like a fine play.

I would cut Nim Deathmantle and Skarrgan Firebird, as they seem to be the epitome of the Titan problem you mentioned. I can't really justify the mana cost of those in relation to, say, Grave Titan (which I wouldn't play).

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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-08 1:58 am 
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Joined: 2011-Apr-02 4:19 pm
Age: Wyvern
Diamond Valley also works perfectly fine. Really old cards from antiquities, arabian nights or legends are awesome. It would almost be a crime to not play them. In my decks I do consider lands that dont tap for mana as spells. I don't know at how many lands you currently are but that's something you might want to take into account.

And talking about old land cards. One I can definitely recommend in your deck is City of Shadows. You could always seem to use more mana. Tokens love going to the city. One thing that you can also do is sac/exile your general with it when she's about to die or get tucked. The counter pays for half the 2 mana penalty for replaying your general at a later stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-08 9:17 am 
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Joined: 2011-Mar-29 8:30 am
Age: Drake
I have Added and Subtracted quite a bit and have listed the cards I put in as {NEW}
this is the list so far.

it seems good but, still feels like it could be motified

...still not sure about adding Corpse Dancefive mana for the recurable + Lyzolda, the Blood Witch ability 2 mana seems like alot (7 mana total)"also the cheaper I can bring in creatures the better! Any ideas? thinking of adding Sneak Attack"

[This is the main challenge for this deck...bringing the creature in as cheaply as possible leaving plenty of mana open for Lyz effects. I would like to use her ability multiple times and bring in multiple creatures as efficiently as possible.]

General: Lyzolda, the Blood Witch

31 Creatures

Creatures 1 drop
Carrion Feeder
Dragonmaster Outcast
Greater Gargadon counted as a one drop (sac outlet) {New}
Ingot Chewer played as a one drop {NEW}

Creatures 2 drop
Ashling the Pilgrim
Bloodghast
Mogg War Marshal

Creatures 3 drop
Anathemancercan be a finisher
Fleshbag Marauder
Fulminator Mage (pesky land removal)
Haakon, Stromgald Scourge (supports a knight subtheme)
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Manic Vandal (pesky artifact removal)
Phyrexian Crusader (Knight)

Creatures 4 drop
Anger
Ashenmoor Liege (Knight)
Faceless Butcher very awesome removal
Flesh-Eater Imp win condition this deck runs tons of tokens and sac creatures
Marsh Flitter
Mindslicer
Murderous Redcap
Sengir Autocrat - tokens
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
Changeling Berserker (Knight) {NEW}


Creatures 5 drop
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
Shriekmaw
Siege-Gang Commander

Creature 6 drop
Homura, Human Ascendant win condition

Creature 8 drop
Avatar of Woe{NEW} (mid game 2 drop)
Avatar of Fury{NEW} (mid game 2 drop)


Atifacts (11 artifacts)
Sensei's Divining Top
Sol Ring
Basilisk Collar
Nim Deathmantle
Lightning Greaves
Heartstone cheaper general activation cost
Darksteel Plate
Mimic Vat
Loxodon Warhammer
Spine of Ish Sah This deck needs enchantment removal bad!
Phyrexian Altar {NEW}

Recursion cards 5
Phyrexian Reclamation
Reanimate
Oversold Cemetery
Torrent of Souls
Beacon of Unrest

Draw 4
Phyrexian Arena
Necropotence
Skullclamp
Wheel of Fortune

Search 3
Buried Alive
Dimir House Guard{NEW}
Entomb{NEW}

Mass removal 3
Black Sun's Zenith
Nevinyrral's Disk
Oblivion Stone

Token Enchantments 2
Bitterblossom
Goblin Assault

misc 4
Bloodchief Ascension
Sarkhan the Mad
Grave Pact
Nameless Inversion (knight) {NEW}

TOTAL NON-LAND CARDS = 63

non-basic lands
Unholy Grotto
Volrath's Stronghold
Strip Mine
Bojuka Bog{NEW}
High Market{NEW}
various dual lands
Basic lands

TOTAL LAND CARDS = 36


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-10 3:27 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Apr-02 4:19 pm
Age: Wyvern
If mana is your main concern at the moment, Try out Black Market. Use that mana to play creatures and you can leave lands open.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-12 7:25 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-03 12:21 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Basel, Switzerland
The biggest problem I mostly encounter with Lyzolda are huge beaters, like for example Rampaging Baloths. This card is a nightmare for this deck because it steadily spits out creatures that outclass yours. And I run a lot more creature removal than you do.
Mostly my plan is to survive somehow until I get to drop an O-Stone or Grave Pact and sacrifice everything away, but often it isn't that easy. The thing is, the color combination of red and black is probably one of the most fair out there: it doesn't do broken plays like Genesis Wave for 10 or Traumatize into Living Death nor has it any overly strong generals that allow winning moves like Berserk on Kresh into Fling to take out 2 players. It is also very weak in mana ramp and/or acceleration, thereby completely relying on artifacts (exception is the Cabal Coffers/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth combination, but it is a) very easily disrupted and b) much weaker than in a mono black deck).
Sooo, how is your deck performing? Is your token approach successful? If this is your primary route I would definitively add Vicious Shadows, this card is nuts. Not only do you get additional value for every sacrificed creature, you also get some sort of protection against wrath effects if you got something like 10 tokens out there and opponents with 5 cards in hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-12 10:23 am 
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Joined: 2011-Mar-29 8:30 am
Age: Drake
@imRauSch

I do understand what you are saying Red/black is underpowered in compairison to some other color combinations...I have never really encountered a problem like rampaging baloths. beleive it or not I found this deck may be too much for my play group to handle, I know that sounds silly but, my removal is all recurable and grave pact is coco nuts! I did actually runvicious shadows in my old build but, people complained too much...sigh so I took it out. in fact ever since I put it back together...my play group has been groaning

I have actually considered scaling it down a bit and restricting the cards I play to a 3 and below casting cost. Now that would make it interesting! can anyone see this as working well, there are tons of great 1 drop blacks and reds that are actually pretty good. maybe it would be junk, but at least I can tell my play group hey all my stuff is only three casting cost and below, what more do you want from me? could be a good challenge...let me know what you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda the blood witch Re-Vamped
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-13 2:13 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-03 12:21 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Ok, in this case our playgroups apparently differ a lot. Grave Pact doesn't live too long around here, and huge beaters are the norm. And the recurable removal, right.. Tormod's Crypt, Ground Seal, Nihil Spellbomb, Withered Wretch, Stonecloaker, do I need to continue?
I even thought about adding back Myojin of Night's Reach, which I cut because people were too upset about him. But as it is at the moment I feel like I need a preemptive answer to those broken plays.
Looking forward to the the black chancellor from New Phyrexia, this will be a good addition.

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