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 Post subject: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-22 1:56 pm 

Joined: 2016-Sep-16 11:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
This is my current Selvala deck, originally based on a deck published here, but significant deck changes have been made. I'm looking to optimize around 5-7 cards. Currently the primary weakness is that Selvala is kill on sight for my group. I run into issues hitting the 5 and 7 mana required to recast her. A bit more team protection would be useful if possible.

I'm trying to avoid multiple infinite combos, so that the deck is brutal while still being relatively fair as possible. (my local group is rough) Any other recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Commander: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds

Lands:
32 Forest
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Wirewood Lodge
Rogue's Passage
Glacial Chasm

Creatures:
Llanowar Elves
Elvish Mystic
Birds of Paradise
Fyndhorn Elves
Boreal Druid
Quirion Ranger
Pathbreaker Ibex
Heroes' Bane
Arashi, the Sky Asunder
Brawn
Polukranos, World Eater
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Ulvenwald Tracker
Realm Seekers
Archetype of Endurance
Thunderfoot Baloth
Nylea, God of the Hunt
Bane of Progress
Seedborn Muse
Terastodon
Yeva, Nature's Herald
Kalonian Hydra
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Patron of the Orochi
Ulvenwald Hydra

Optional Creatures:
Regal Force - experiment
Siege Behemoth - experiment
Genesis Hydra - never glad to see
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - anti-wrath and overrun - never used as such
Greenbelt Rampager - Phyrexian Dreadnaught instead?
Hydra Broodmaster - almost never monstrous - maybe replace?

Enchantments:
Call of the Wild
Burgeoning
Asceticism
Concordant Crossroads
Cream of the Crop
Zendikar Resurgent
Lurking Predators
Nature's Chosen
Sylvan Library
Mana Reflection

Spells:
Squall Line
Chord of Calling
Heroic Intervention
Green Sun's Zenith
Genesis Wave
Hurricane
Seek the Wilds
Natural Order
Selvala's Stampede
Stream of Life
Wildest Dreams
Tranquility
Overwhelming Stampede
Tooth and Nail - no real I win button - something better?
Attune with Aether - better options

Artifacts:
Umbral Mantle
Caged Sun
Citanul Flute
Ring of Three Wishes
Lifecrafter's Bestiary
Well of Knowledge
Swiftfoot Boots


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-22 4:14 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Definite Cuts:

Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger: I don't know what your standard of "fair" is, but in general I think that if infinite combos are over the line, he is too. The mana ramp for you is unneeded too, since you have one of the best mana producers in the game as your general.

Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre: Read Vorinclex

Greenbelt Rampager: Holy shit yes replace with Dreadnaught. 12 mana is so much better than 3.

Hydra Broodmaster: Unlike every other self-pumping creature, he can only do it once. Polukranos at least has the removal aspect to him.

Burgeoning: Exploration is much better for your deck. Burgeoning is kinda crap outside of the first turn, and you don't really have enough lands or consistent draw to make it more useful.

Stream of Life: There are better sources of life gain in green. Both cards that actually get you more life, and cards that get you life and do other things. Shamanic Revelation is almost certainly an strict upgrade, although other great options exist. Just off the top of my head I have Scavenging Ooze, Primal Command, Lifeblood Hydra, Momentous Fall, and Primeval Bounty.

Tranquility: Back to Nature is strictly better.

Attune with Aether: Almost any card in the color green is better. Especially if you take the elephant out.

The next question I have is how exactly do you want to win this game? Do you have a strong gameplan, or is it just hard ramp into a bunch of value fatties?

Either way, I personally would argue that your best bet, regardless of gameplan, is to try to get Selvala out on turn 2. With 8 cards in your opening hand, your odds of being able to do that is a little bit less than 1 in 12, meaning you'd want 13 cards in your deck to do that. The card disadvantage of those cards is almost irrelevant since you have Selvala and a bunch of other huge draw spells (and I'd suggest more). You currently have 6 sources: your five mana dorks and Burgeoning. Some others: Arbor Elf, Exploration, Elvish Spirit Guide, Jeweled Amulet, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal, Gemstone Mine, and Havenwood Battleground. Also, adding in Dryad Arbor to your mana base allows Green Sun's Zenith to become one.

After this, I think that card draw is something insanely important to a deck like yours. Most of the good card draws I actually already mentioned with the Steam of Life replacements. I'm also a huge fan of Life's Legacy, Skullmulcher, and Rishkar's Expertise. Also, Abundance forms a pretty sexy combo with Sylvan Library while still being a great card on its own.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-22 8:51 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Quote:
Also, Abundance forms a pretty sexy combo with Sylvan Library while still being a great card on its own.


Holy shit yes it does. That's hilarious.

For lifegain, don't forget predator's rapport

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-23 1:29 am 

Joined: 2016-Sep-16 11:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
Thank you for the ideas. Just some follow up thoughts on how the deck currently runs. Right now, it comes out explosively. People have commented "Blink and you lost the game". I do want to cut down on the mana curve slightly when possible as I am overly dependent on Selvala to reach the higher mana costs.

Additional thoughts.
Ulamog is intended to be mill protection and a final battering ram against untouchables. Repeated Annihilator is effective against 'you can't hurt me' decks. The anti-mill is needed in my playgroup.

Stream of Life assists in a secondary win condition. While the other life gain ideas are effective, the goal was to gain 20+ life and drop Hurricane. Scavenging Ooze is a definite include given the graveyard decks I run into on a constant basis.

Greenbelt was a gimmick - hope to draw 3 cards for 3 mana. Never really happened.

Life's Legacy was in the original deck. Removed as I never cast it. Rishkar's Expertise however looks like an amazing replacement.

I've been told I'm basically playing 'Green Deck Wins'. There are times I ramp stupidly fast and early to the point I feel mercy is needed. (Turn 4-5 lethal on one person) Some of the cards are only in there in response to specific weaknesses. With Ring and Flute - Seedborn/Yeva/gather response and/or nightmare fuel every turn.

I like some of your replacements and will be looking for those cards- I just need good creature ideas. Thank you for your suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-23 3:49 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I guess I should rephrase my original question. Is your primary win condition your Hurricane-type effects, or turning creatures sideways? I'm specifically asking because if it's the former, then a bunch of your cards become useless, like Brawn or Siege Behemoth, and several others all slightly worse as well.

As for the lifegain, the cards that I and Spectrar mentioned are great for pure lifegain. Another one that I think is almost always better than Stream is Feed the Clan. Other options like it are Gnaw to the Bone, Loxodon Warhammer, Nissa Revane, Nylea's Disciple, Nourishing Shoal, Pelakka Wurm, Pristine Talisman, Retreat to Kazandu, and Wellwisher.

Also, as for Tooth and Nail, it has no real "I win" combos right now. However, if you include Avenger of Zendikar, Regal Force then becomes an excellent partner for it, usually drawing you at least 7 cards. My pet card Skullmulcher also combos with Avenger pretty decently too.

I'll take your word for Ulamog being needed as an anti-mill card. In that case, I'd actually recommend Kozilek instead. He's less mana to cast, gets you more mana off Selvala, and drawing 4 cards is insanely good in a deck like this.

Finally, I cannot believe I forgot to mention this, but the best possible land for any green deck is Gaea's Cradle. The fact that you have so many mana dorks makes it even better.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-23 4:56 am 

Joined: 2016-Sep-16 11:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
Sorry if I was unclear. Hurricane effect is the secondary win-con when turning creatures sideways is not effective. Two hurricanes, stream of life and glacial chasm are the cards devoted to this.

My primary question is the manner of your life gain choices. Most of them are slow/incremental or one shot effects. I frequently have 50+ mana to throw around, so the intention was to Stream-Hurricane (look Ma - I'm playing red) and tell the Constant Mists player to take a hike. Predator's Rapport might be a better choice as it's cheaper and instant speed and works well with any creature combination where I'm looking at a 40+ Hurricane.

Question regarding Avenger - I frequently find that I'm only playing with 4-6 lands on the table. I'm not sure it has the desired goal at such a low land count? The library manipulation in the deck frequently means I'm building my creature base extremely rapidly - dropping multiple lands to build the tokens is a bit slower than the deck normally runs. (likely to be wiped due to someone trying to clean up my table)

One of the considerations I made was creatures where power is roughly equal to the mana spent to cast them. I leaned away from an 5/5 utility for 8/9 mana unless the effect was absolutely needed. (Bane of Progress)

At $200+ dollars, I can't afford a Gaea's Cradle right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-23 8:26 am 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Holy shit Cradle has gone up in price. Last time I checked it was in the $60 range. Never mind then.

The thing about life gain is you really don't need much of it, just enough to put you ahead. Unless you've just been repeatedly hammered all game, it seems unlikely that the X in Stream should ever be higher than 10. Even in the case that it should, Nourishing Shoal is basically the same card except at instant speed and you can sometimes cast it for free.

The Avenger I mentioned merely to potentially combo with other cards. It sucks with Selvala, but it's amazing with Regal Force (and makes T&N much stronger). It also interacts nicely with other cards I mentioned like Revelation, and if it lasts a turn cycle it adds in a ton of damage off cards like Ibex and Kamahl. The fact that multiple land drops can turn the tokens huge is just a very thin layer of icing on the cake.

On that note, have you considered including any sac or bounce outlets to protect Selvala? One card that I like in almost every green deck is Erratic Portal.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-23 10:58 am 

Joined: 2016-Sep-16 11:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
I love the idea of Erratic Portal - I don't know that I would cast it much, but it is a really cool idea defensively and offensively. (over aggressive personality - prefer to boost offense over defense)

I think Predator's Rapport is the best option for life gain. Even with untap effects to get the 41+ mana, I should at a minimum have an 8/8 or greater so that's 16 life for 3 mana at instant speed. Given that I typically choose to cap Heroes' Bane at 2048 (it's stupid in this deck), I could easily use the Ring to pull up the missing half of Squall Line/Rapport at end of any turn. In my playgroup, Selvala gets a lot of aggro/hate. Too many WTF - it's only turn 5 dude or that's a 32/32 you're swinging at me - situations

The Avenger is probably a pretty good idea - especially as a Tooth/Nail target. I'll have to try it out as it has better synergy with Pathbreaker etc than Siege Behemoth.

Thank you very much for the assistance. I'll have to make some of these changes and see how the deck works out. Given the total changes are relatively small, I'll assume I'm heading in the right direction.

***Why does she get so much hate? With most of the full team assembled - the following occurred in one full go around the table. Move to combat - Cyclonic Rift. Flash in Bane of Progress to punish the blue player with lots of artifacts for doing so. Recast all creatures before combat starts, and return Heroes' Bane back to 2048/2048 - drawing cards while doing so and recovering and recast Concordant Crossroads before end of turn. Next player does nothing- cast Regal Forces. Following player attempts to swing a 40/40 using Rogue's Passage. Kill it and all other creatures on the table via Polukranos. Next turn is blue player who recovers Cyclonic Rift - at end of the next player's turn I cast Terastadon aiming at Blue player's untapped islands. Mass scoop. (I had 5 lands total for game)

She honestly deserves the hate.***


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-24 12:32 am 
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I'm sortof ambiguous about Selvala- so my commentary might not align with Uktabi's- but his evaluation is very good.

Selvala, Heart of the Wilds- Going to be honest with you, I prefer her as one of the 99 in a broader "Power Matters" deck, like Yasova Dragonclaw (one of my favorite commanders.) Mono color commander decks tend to get super pigeonholed into a singular strategy unless they're ridiculously broken. Still- it's your deck :) If you dig the General, you can make her work.

Ring of Three Wishes and Tooth and Nail- Honestly, I wouldn't play the Ring outside of something like a Tajic, Blade of the Legion, Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer or Depala, Pilot Exemplar list. Green and Black have no lack of powerhouse tutors like T&N or Primal Command. I would emphatically recommend putting Craterhoof Behemoth in here, because it is the ultimate T&N target.

Ulamog, The Infinite Gyre- This is really up to your playgroup. I find Eldrazi titans sortof distasteful outside of colorless decks. But, by the time it should even matter, any opponent should reasonably be able to recover from an Ulamog being planted. Since you aren't packing Eye of Ugin, Sanctum of Ugin, Shrine of the Forsaken Gods or Gaea's Cradle- and your colors prevent you from getting Fires of Yavimaya or Urabrask the Hidden- I wouldn't really call this a party foul.

Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger- I actually don't see an issue with playing this, unless your operative strategy is purely mana denial. I've often found this card to be far less offensive than Seedborn Muse and her ilk. The most egregious thing that Vorinclex does outside of dedicated mana denial strategies- is the extreme memory games he creates. If your playgroup can keep up with his second trigger, then it really shouldn't be a problem. The meaner Praetors like Jin and Vorinclex do paint a huge target onto you though- so if you do play them, plan on eliminating players within the next 2 turns.

Wildest Dreams- I really wouldn't bother. You can just play Greenwarden of Murasa

Umbral Mantle and Well of Knowledge- While I get the logic here, for going infinite or digging for an infinite combo, I'm not entirely sure this is necessary.

Swiftfoot Boots- Just play Lightning Greaves or something else entirely. Umbral and Greaves gives you a 3 mana infinite damage Voltron swing.

What I would try to fit in...
Boon Satyr- Flash, a-aaaaah
Whisperwood Elemental- Allows you to diversify your card advantage and cheat things into play. If it's a hydra that will be a 0/0, then you get to keep a 2/2.
Garruk, Primal Hunter- Again, diversifying card advantage
Thragtusk- All around utility- allows you to gum up the board easily
Greenwarden of Murasa- The recursion your General wants. Also, a great choice for T&N if any win buttons aren't advantageous.
Craterhoof Behemoth- You're playing mono G, it's alright to pack the king of alpha strikes


Treetop Village- Really, there isn't a good reason not to be packing this. It's very affordable. Your deck really should be running on 37 land. Being less greedy with your mana base means being more consistent, especially since your General has a draw engine built in.
Blighted Woodland and Myriad Landscape- Exploding mana sources, oh my
Nissa, Vastwood Seer- If you can afford it, this card is an ideal combination of land drop fixing and utility
Cultivate and Kodama's Reach Your general costs 3, then 5, then 7 etc. This means that Cultivate and Reach often straight up ensure your next land drop and cast.
Nissa's Pilgrimage- Another Cultivate variant.
Quicksilver Amulet- This enables much bigger plays. Probably better here than in Mayael the Anima

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-24 10:18 pm 

Joined: 2016-Sep-16 11:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
Hey Mr Degradation, I looked over your suggestions and feel I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with most choices.

Selvala opens up a lot of nonsense that simply isn't available to most decks. My goal each turn is how to generate as much mana as possible, and the best usage of that mana. While one could argue most decks do the same thing, the scale tends to be different. Instead of 5-10 mana, I'm looking to generate 20-2000+ mana. By turn 5-6.

As an example of how this deck works - consider the following:
Selvala
Heroes' Bane (4/4)
Kalonian Hydra (4/4)
Pathbreaker Ibex
1 untapped forest.

This is lethal for 1 player, likely lethal for a second, and the 3rd player is on life support - probably scooping.

With this type of play available, the deck becomes more of how do I get these setups out, how do I protect them, clear the path, and recover when needed. The cards used should do something more than just be a large body. With that said, I'll run through some of the suggestions and associated reasoning.

Ring - let's me tutor for non-creature answers. What good is Heroic Intervention if it's buried in 70 cards? I frequently use Ring to grab my Flute - leading to Seedborn/Yeva combo.

Craterhoof - I've considered this card, but I'm not feeling it. When I really only have 3-4 creatures on the table, his impact isn't very high. (highly creature destructive playgroup) I feel Avenger is more useful due to the repeated combos with Pathbreaker/Overrun effects. But even Avenger could be debated in this deck due to build time on the tokens and frequently low land counts.

Ulamog is happiest inside my library. Just enough heavy mill effects/decks in my local group that people stuff an Eldrazi into the deck just to counter them. Casting him is a rarity. Ulamog vs Kozilek is an interesting argument of destruction answer vs card draw.

Umbral Mantle is my token infinite combo - just to give me a snowball's chance against the turn 4-5 combo out decks. I don't tutor for it unless it's a feel bad, lets get this over with game. Well of Knowledge - card draw that nobody else is likely to use - possibly draw and play my deck in 1 turn. Wildest Dreams seems to be the most efficient recovery tool at this time. Greenwarden is a good option, but would replace an already existing creature.

Didn't like Greaves as it prevents things like Nature's Chosen and Umbral Mantle from working.

Arguments against the creature suggestions:
Boon Satyr - See Yeva.
Whisperwood Elemental - friend constantly plays Elesh Norn decks.
Garruk - was in deck originally - removed as it was never played or felt clunky in the deck.
Thragtusk - 5 life won't help a lot. I removed Hangerback Walker as I never wanted to play it, even with the anti-wipe effect built in.
Greenwarden of Murasa - actually considering this one

Lands:
Treetop - comes into play tapped and would never give me card draw. 3/3 body doesn't feel big when I'm tossing 16/16 Kalonian Hydras around.
Blighted Woodland - possibility. Myriad comes into play tapped.
Nissa - one off effect. By the time I reach 7 lands I've either been shut down or currently playing Archenemy with the table. I would be interested in a repeatable Cultivate effect.
Quicksilver Amulet - possibility. Not sure I need a put in from hand card as most of my existing card set is dig from library followed by flashing in with Yeva.


I appreciate the suggestions, and don't mean to be overly critical. I've been using this deck for a few months, and simply know where the weaknesses are, and cards that have been cut for various reasons. I think I'm at one of the hardest points of deck construction as I'm trying to find the last 4-5 'right' cards for the deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-25 2:59 am 
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Also, I feel dumb for not thinking of this earlier: what about Giant-Growth-type effects? Specifically I like the ideas of Aspect of Hydra, Become Immense, Berserk, Blossoming Defense, Gather Courage, Groundswell, Inner Calm, Outer Strength, Invigorate, Might of Old Krosa, Mutagenic Growth, Phytoburst, Prey's Vengeance, Primal Bellow, Revenge of the Hunted, or Wirewood Pride.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-25 5:03 am 

Joined: 2016-Sep-16 11:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
When I originally constructed the deck, I did consider Giant Grow effects. Basically I just couldn't find room. Right now the deck functions amazingly well without and adding them would require finding 6-8 replacement cards.

Just not sure I want to go in that direction.

I've already made a number of changes based on ideas posted here. I'm basically down to 3 creatures to be changed up:
Vorn
Siege Behemoth
Hydra Broodmaster

I've got 4-6 card ideas so this will take some thinking. Sadly it's not possible to make a deck that does everything perfectly.


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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-25 5:40 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I've had big success with Hydra Broodmaster. Throwing out 19 19/19 Hydras to accompany their 26/26 mommy on turn 6 makes an impact. I wouldn't dare remove it from my deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-25 6:50 am 
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crimson wrote:
I appreciate the suggestions, and don't mean to be overly critical. I've been using this deck for a few months, and simply know where the weaknesses are, and cards that have been cut for various reasons. I think I'm at one of the hardest points of deck construction as I'm trying to find the last 4-5 'right' cards for the deck.


It's all good :D Most of my suggestions come from the experience of playing against/trying Roffellos and Yisan decks- and brewing Yasova. Like I said, it's your deck- you should do what you want to. However, this is just good natured discussion- so I would like to provide counterpoints, with respect to your opinion to illustrate. At the very least, I hope these posts are entertaining or thought provoking.

I've found that as I develop as a player, decks that feel complete have to be somewhat redrawn. Maybe you're far beyond where I am in player development- in which case, the discussion will still be fruitful.

crimson wrote:
As an example of how this deck works - consider the following:
Selvala
Heroes' Bane (4/4)
Kalonian Hydra (4/4)
Pathbreaker Ibex
1 untapped forest.


You're obviously looking to take initiative- and my suggestions appreciate that. However, in EDH, for as much as we try to "program" our decks to do something, we simply cannot expect things to just go our way or work frequently. In this format, we know that our opponents will frequently try to slow us down, especially if we get an explosive start. Maybe your playgroup is disruption-light, and you're seeking to take advantage of that if possible; but outside of that specific scenario, I find that not diversifying sources of card advantage is a mistake, even inside of the most aggressive EDH lists.

crimson wrote:
Ring - let's me tutor for non-creature answers. What good is Heroic Intervention if it's buried in 70 cards? I frequently use Ring to grab my Flute - leading to Seedborn/Yeva combo.


One of the things we learned quickly with Roffellos is that clumsy artifact tutors almost always fall short of drawing stacks of cards. Answers are just things in your deck that you build with redundancy so that when you draw X cards, you're likely to find one or more. Furthermore- when a deck strings tutors together without creating significant tempo, it often opens you up to getting time walked pretty harshly, even if your General makes seemingly/literally infinite mana. Citanul Flute is likely in your deck because it's redundant with Green Sun's Zenith, Natural Order, Chord of Calling, and Tooth and Nail- but it doesn't also push out more board- and neither does Ring. Which, while acceptable on it's own, makes it especially bad if you're stringing them together. In contrast, you could just be playing Evolutionary Leap or Fauna Shaman over the Ring, and just have higher EV just by having better redundancy. Also, there's Birthing Pod and Worldly Tutor.

crimson wrote:
Didn't like Greaves as it prevents things like Nature's Chosen and Umbral Mantle from working.


All you need to sidestep that is another body to put Greaves on- which your deck is stuffed with. If the opponent answers the target for the equip ability, your general can still generate mana to play another body- if Selvala/Token Maker is answered after the equipment shifts, you can tap her for mana to play her, and then equip the boots for free to give her haste. The opportunity cost of any of this occurring strikes me as less likely than the opportunity cost of playing the Boots over the Greaves- especially since you aren't trying to Voltron.

[quote= "crimson"]turn 4-5 combo out decks [/quote]
Aside from the consistency issues with these decks, you are kindof pigeonholed by simply playing mono G, so if a combo deck starts to go off- you'll have to just rely on teaming up with a policing deck at the table.

crimson wrote:
Boon Satyr - See Yeva.

Unfortunately, you can't really have enough flash redundancy in many EDH decks. Even with Vedalken Orrery AND Yeva, cards like Boon Satyr, Restoration Angel, Stonecloaker, Voidmage Husher etc. still shine. Ontop of that, Boon Satyr allows Selvala to pump more mana out of a creature, and if the creature is answered, the Boon Satyr still supplies a solid 4 (ontop of possibly proc'ing a draw.)


crimson wrote:
Whisperwood Elemental - friend constantly plays Elesh Norn decks.


I get the meta call, but in situations of silver bullets vs. card advantage, I prefer to be the guy building CA. As someone who frequently plays Norn, being pressured into playing the Norn to stabilize often sucks.

crimson wrote:
Treetop - comes into play tapped and would never give me card draw. 3/3 body doesn't feel big when I'm tossing 16/16 Kalonian Hydras around.


This is true, but Treetop is a manland that lets you break even when Selvala taps for mana. The body isn't huge, but the ability to produce granular pressure even as the inevitable waves of wipes come down keeps you from having outright dead turns. Since your deck doesn't choke on mana, answering the Village puts the opponent at a disadvantage because you are developing Hydras. It's a utility land that plays several angles and still produces G mana- and since none of your other lands come into play tapped, it's unlikely to cause you mana problems.


:D Had a blast reading your post, hope you're having a blast playing the deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Selvala - final optimazation thoughts?
AgePosted: 2017-Mar-25 8:37 am 

Joined: 2016-Sep-16 11:05 pm
Age: Wyvern
Rather than creating a massive page buster of replies - I'll just address your points. Agreed on good natured discussion.

First, I would not place either of us ahead of the other - if anything it sounds like you have more experience. I just have more experience with the card interactions in my deck and the frequently occurring combinations I see/seek. (won a game with Kalonian/Heroes' while swinging at a player hiding behind Glacial Chasm - by Chord'ing for Patron of the Orochi)(Gen Wave for the win)

My typical play style with Flute/Ring is to pull up the answers I need right now. First target for Flute is always Seedborn - just so that I can pull out Yeva the following turn, then Archetype. If nobody is removing my board at this point, go for Heroes' and Pathbreaker. This is one turn around the table and unanswered will kill most tables. I do however play a heavy creature removal playgroup - so I expect my dead creature count to climb pretty quick. (Ulamog does double duty here) I also favor pulling my creatures without sacrificing existing creatures.

The main theme you might be missing from my deck is library manipulation. I've pointed out my low land count - this is typically due to my library manipulation coming into play and I choose to push lands away - I don't need them after 5-6 lands (or less) I favor finding specific answers or repeatable cheats (Lurking Predators) The Ring gives me exactly what I need when I need it. I don't need to draw cards when I'm dropping exactly what creature I want at the end of any turn.

I'm actually thinking about taking out the Boots. One card dedicated to protection just isn't consistent enough. Would rather get something like Abundance, which fits the deck better.

You would be shocked how often I end up playing police in mono green. Terastadon and Bane of Progress shuts down a lot of shenanigans. Your creatures are cute - let me introduce them to bigger ones. (why answer a mess when you can be the bigger threat?) Anti-Air spells for those going airborne or simply killing them faster. Alternatively - people look at what I've got on the table and start asking who is going to answer that nonsense or if I would mind looking at someone else's spot. I'm the biggest threat at the table - people need to answer me. (The most horrifying question you can ask anyone playing Commander - What's your life total?)

I've heard of green toolbox decks and I feel this is the general direction I've taken most of my creatures. They either provide stupid size and mana, or they answer something specific. That's the main reason I'm not super interested in Boon Satyr. He's only interesting in the 3-4 mana range of play. Afterwards he's very bleh by himself. (even as an enchantment)

The Elesh Norn player is actually the one who consistently beats me - he's had years to tune most of his decks and is 90% answer/10% win type deck construction. He says Selvala annoys him slightly - and it's obvious he's got his eye on her the second I pull her out. Another player keeps Deflecting Palm specifically for my nonsense. :(

The deck is definitely fun. The power level is just short of competitive level decks, and is fairly beatable. I have to be careful who I play it against as some players simply can not handle the development speed of the deck. But it's so much fun to wreck tables. :/


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