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 Post subject: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-17 3:54 pm 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
Crosspost from NoGoblinsAllowed forums. Thought I'd get input from the EDH specialists over here.

I'm building Ulrich of the Krallenhorde as an attempt to get werewolves to function...at least moderately. i understand that werewolves have a huge problem in commander.
The vast majority of their power is on the night side of their card and the only way to get there is to have a turn of no spells being cast.
If you have a werewolf on the board it's pretty obvious what you're doing and usually somebody at the table has an instant or flash spell to cast during your turn to keep your werewolves tame.

My goal with this deck is to apply enough ways to bend casting timing restrictions and other things in order to get my cute puppies to transform. I have not playtested this deck. I have no idea how it will fair in my meta, but we're generally fairly chill. We do have some strong players with some strong decks, but they understand how to restrain themselves where needed.

I want this thread to focus on ways to help enable taking a turn off, usually your own turn, that also at least disincentivises our opponents from casting a spell on our turn.

I am aware that probably the best R/G general for enabling werewolf transformations is Ruric Thar, the Unbowed and I actually originally had him as the general for this deck, however, once he was spoiled, I decided really wanted to play with Ulrich so Ruric will be relegated to the 99.

R/G Cards that make it less palatable for opponents to cast spells on our turn:
Xantid Swarm is iffy because they can still cast spells during our first main phase, but it's better than nothing and prevents our spells in our second main phase from being countered, usually.
Dosan the Falling Leaf Just what the doctor ordered
Hand to Hand Doesn't stop everything, but combat tricks are at least off the table
City of Solitude older version of Dosan
Uba Mask seems awesome here too.
Heartwood Storyteller disincentivises the casting of non-creature spells. making it less likely for others to cast spells on my turn.
Forgotten Ancient punishes people in a sideways fashion for casting spells by giving me +1/+1 counters to throw around.

A corner case to force an opponent to potentially take one or more of their turns off
Brand of Ill Omen
Mindslaver and Emrakul, the Promised End both let you control a player's turn which you can use to force them to do nothing for the turn so you can flip your werewolves....or you can just use their own spells against them like you're supposed to do with those cards.

Next in our bag of tricks we would like ways to continue to advance our own board state without actually casting spells. Fortunately there are a few cards that can help with that:
Elvish Piper
Aether Vial...sigh and I just traded mine off at GPDC. oh well.
Cryptic Gateway tribal synergy!
Quicksilver Amulet
Belbe's Portal
Arashin War Beast roundabout for sure, but it technically could work.
Birthing Pod technically it's cycling a creature, but it is getting a bigger (and presumably better) one so I'm ok with trading up.
Briarbridge Patrol may be difficult, but technically possible
Call of the Wild hit or miss, not sure if I want it. Best with some kind of top of the library fixing/checking like Cream of the Crop, Druidic Satchel, Into the Wilds.
Clone Shell
Defense of the Heart solid
Game Preserve probably too symmetric
Gamekeeper wants, probably needs, a sac outlet
Garruk, Caller of Beasts middle ability
Gate to the Aether probably too symmetric
Guild Feud...fascinating
Hibernation's End
Lurking Predators Devastating.
Mercadian Lift a not busted Aether Vial
Mosswort Bridge staple
Myojin of Life's Web expensive
Norwood Priestess portal 2nd age card. XD
Pattern of Rebirth also cycling, but still good
Root Elemental Really expensive though. Probably not worth it.
Summoner's Egg probably too roundabout
Temur War Shaman
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon oh lol, like I'm actually going to be allowed to hit his ult. XD
Whisperwood Elemental
Xenagos, the Reveler once again, ult is unlikely.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Pyxis of Pandemonium drops random stuff on the table, possibly including werewolves without actually casting them.

Yeva, Nature's Herald gives our green creatures flash so we can still take off our turn, which is the point so it still fits in this category even if we're technically casting things
Vedalken Orrery see Yeva
Winding Canyons see Yeva, can be found with Ulvenwald Hydra or Realm Seekers

Impromptu Raid and Killer Instinct technically work, but I think I'm looking for the creatures to stick around so no.

Random Tutor effects that don't necessarily directly assist the stated goal of this thread, but do help us find our pieces.
Tamiyo's Journal works with Briarbridge Patrol too
Elvish Harbinger can find the piper. Sort of unrelated, but can also get Wolf-Skull Shaman and Wren's Run Packmaster.
Woodland Bellower can find lots of stuff. Can be an engine with Kiki-Jiki or Feldon of the Third Path
Fierce Empath can find Woodland Bellower...XD
Kuldotha Forgemaster can find other pieces that find pieces...not sure if worth it
Nessian Game Warden
Skyshroud Poacher can find the piper
Natural Order
Chord of Calling
Green Sun's Zenith
Citanul Flute
Fauna Shaman
Primal Command
Signal the Clans I don't know if I like this card.
Summoner's Pact
Survival of the Fittest a busted version of Evolutionary Leap
Sylvan Tutor
Worldly Tutor
Time of Need finds Dosan
Tooth and Nail
Traverse the Ulvenwald depending on delirium...
Weird Harvest probably a terrible idea...
Zoologist is the creature version of Call of the Wild.


I've been avoiding updating this until EMN hit gatherer.
Now that that's here it's time to put together a sample decklist.
Or at least a first pass at all the werewolves I would put in the deck plus a pared down version of the list of support cards.

Even if he falls short of my desires and expectations I'm still very happy that Ulrich of the Krallenhorde/Ulrich, Uncontested Alpha exists so I'm going to use him as my general.

I was torn on whether I should use the Eldrazi Werewolves from EMN, but in the end I think it's a good idea to use them because even if they are warped they are still werewolves. And also the mana intensive transformation triggers gives me something to do with my mana besides cast spells, and they also stay on their back side so it will be good to have some consistent raised power levels as opposed to ones that just flip back and forth like the entire rest of the deck does.

On a side not it really irks me that I can't reliably play Wren's Run Packmaster. It would be such a house in this deck.

Commander
Ulrich of the Krallenhorde/Ulrich, Uncontested Alpha

Werewolves (39)
Arlinn Kord
Afflicted Deserter
Breakneck Rider
Conduit of Storms
Convicted Killer
Daybreak Ranger
Duskwatch Recruiter
Gatstaf Arsonists
Gatstaf Shepherd
Geier Reach Bandit
Grizzled Outcasts
Hanweir Watchkeep
Hermit of the Natterknolls
Hinterland Hermit
Hinterland Logger
Huntmaster of the Fells
Instigator Gang
Kessig Forgemaster
Kessig Prowler
Kruin Outlaw
Lambholt Elder
Lambholt Pacifist
Mayor of Avabruck
Mondronen Shaman
Reckless Waif
Sage of Ancient Lore
Scorned Villager
Shrill Howler
Smoldering Werewolf
Solitary Hunter
Tangleclaw Werewolf
Tormented Pariah
Ulvenwald Captive
Ulvenwald Mystics
Vildin-Pack Outcast
Village Ironsmith
Village Messenger
Villagers of Estwald
Wolfbitten Captive

Explicit werewolf support cards (10)
Cult of the Waxing Moon
Full Moon's Rise
Howlpack Resurgence
Immerwolf
Moonlight Hunt
Moonmist
Silverfur Partisan
Spirit of the Hunt
Ulrich's Kindred
Waxing Moon

Wolf support (11)
Briarpack Alpha
Kessig Cagebreakers
Master of the Wild Hunt
Pack Guardian
Predator's Howl
Pyreheart Wolf
Raised by Wolves
Wolfbriar Elemental
Wolfcaller's Howl
Wolfir Avenger
Wolfir Silverheart

Feed the Pack while awesome at creating wolf tokens feels really out of place in a deck where they would mostly be eating members of their own pack so it's out.
Wolfkin Bond, while cute is not of sufficient power level for a secondary supporting tribe.

Best Support (40)
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Dosan the Falling Leaf
City of Solitude
Elvish Piper
Aether Vial
Cryptic Gateway
Quicksilver Amulet
Belbe's Portal
Birthing Pod
Defense of the Heart
Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Hibernation's End
Lurking Predators
Mercadian Lift
Norwood Priestess
Whisperwood Elemental
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Yeva, Nature's Herald
Vedalken Orrery
Ulvenwald Hydra
Realm Seekers
Tamiyo's Journal
Chord of Calling
Citanul Flute
Fauna Shaman
Primal Command
Signal the Clans
Summoner's Pact
Survival of the Fittest
Evolutionary Leap
Worldly Tutor
Time of Need
Tooth and Nail
Isochron Scepter
Uba Mask
Heartwood Storyteller
Zoologist
Forgotten Ancient
Xantid Swarm
Adaptive Automaton
Brass Herald
Chaosphere
Coat of Arms
Domri Rade
Door of Destinies
Gallows at Willow Hill
Gruul War Chant <-harder to remove pyreheart wolf effect
Obelisk of Urd
Predatory Focus <- Flavorful win condition
Shared Animosity
Titan of Eternal Fire <-Now my werewolves are exceptionally dangerous on both sides

Lands
Kessig Wolf Run
Llanowar Reborn
Raging Ravine
Skarrg, the Rage Pits
Spinerock Knoll
Winding Canyons can be found with Ulvenwald Hydra or Realm Seekers
Mosswort Bridge

MUST HAVE!
Dogpile <-Flavor Win!
Squee's Toy<-More Flavor Win!

Obviously I can't fit all of these spells into one deck, but it's a good second step that I can finally take now that EMN is fully spoiled.


Here is my first pass at a proper 100 card list. Below this list I have repeated a few of what I believe to be the stronger unused options as well as a couple other items that didn't make it into my brainstorming or update sessions above.

One thing to note before going down is that I decided to scale back the regular wolves and focus more on Werewolves so that I could fit in more of the transformation support that I wanted.

Commander (1)
Ulrich of the Krallenhorde // Ulrich, Uncontested Alpha

Tier 1 Werewolves (14)
1 x Arlinn Kord // Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon
1 x Afflicted Deserter // Werewolf Ransacker
1 x Breakneck Rider // Neck Breaker
1 x Daybreak Ranger // Nightfall Predator
1 x Duskwatch Recruiter // Krallenhorde Howler
1 x Geier Reach Bandit // Vildin-Pack Alpha
1 x Hermit of the Natterknolls // Lone Wolf of the Natterknolls
1 x Huntmaster of the Fells // Ravager of the Fells
1 x Instigator Gang // Wildblood Pack
1 x Kruin Outlaw // Terror of Kruin Pass
1 x Mayor of Avabruck // Howlpack Alpha
1 x Mondronen Shaman // Tovolar's Magehunter
1 x Sage of Ancient Lore // Werewolf of Ancient Hunger
1 x Wolfbitten Captive // Krallenhorde Killer

Efficient Werewolves (11)
1 x Hanweir Watchkeep // Bane of Hanweir
1 x Hinterland Logger // Timber Shredder
1 x Kessig Forgemaster // Flameheart Werewolf
1 x Kessig Prowler // Sinuous Predator
1 x Lambholt Elder // Silverpelt Werewolf
1 x Lambholt Pacifist // Lambholt Butcher
1 x Scorned Villager // Moonscarred Werewolf
1 x Shrill Howler // Howling Chorus
1 x Smoldering Werewolf // Erupting Dreadwolf
1 x Ulvenwald Captive // Ulvenwald Abomination
1 x Village Messenger // Moonrise Intruder

Big bruiser Werewolves (not necessarily mana efficient) (2)
1 x Gatstaf Arsonists // Gatstaf Ravagers
1 x Tangleclaw Werewolf // Fibrous Entangler

Explicit werewolf support cards (9)
1 x Cult of the Waxing Moon
1 x Full Moon's Rise
1 x Howlpack Resurgence
1 x Immerwolf
1 x Moonlight Hunt
1 x Moonmist
1 x Spirit of the Hunt
1 x Ulrich's Kindred
1 x Waxing Moon

Wolf support (4)
1 x Kessig Cagebreakers
1 x Master of the Wild Hunt
1 x Pyreheart Wolf
1 x Wolfbriar Elemental

Crucial (2)
1 x Dogpile
1 x Squee's Toy

Transformation Support(16)
1 x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 x Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 x City of Solitude
1 x Uba Mask
1 x Heartwood Storyteller
1 x Elvish Piper
1 x Cryptic Gateway
1 x Quicksilver Amulet
1 x Belbe's Portal
1 x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
1 x Hibernation's End
1 x Lurking Predators
1 x Whisperwood Elemental
1 x Yeva, Nature's Herald
1 x Vedalken Orrery
1 x Isochron Scepter

Pump/Utility/Finishers (4)
1 x Door of Destinies
1 x Obelisk of Urd
1 x Predatory Focus
1 x Titan of Eternal Fire

Lands (37)
1 x Winding Canyons
1 x Mosswort Bridge
1 x Kessig Wolf Run
1 x Llanowar Reborn
1 x Raging Ravine
1 x Skarrg, the Rage Pits
1 x Spinerock Knoll
1 x Cavern of Souls



Didn't make the cut, but still under consideration (22)
Restricts/Punishes Casting
1 x Forgotten Ancient

Cheats onto the battlefield without casting
1 x Birthing Pod
1 x Defense of the Heart
1 x Yisan, the Wanderer Bard

Tutor/Card flow
1 x Ulvenwald Hydra
1 x Realm Seekers
1 x Fauna Shaman
1 x Evolutionary Leap
1 x Foster
1 x Time of Need
1 x Domri Rade

Pump
1 x Adaptive Automaton
1 x Coat of Arms
1 x Gruul War Chant
1 x Shared Animosity
1 x Xenagos, God of Revels
1 x Homura, Human Ascendant
1 x Foe-Razer Regent...do I use it with Gruul Ragebeast too?
1 x Vigor
1 x Somberwald Alpha

Tribal more than just pump
1 x Brass Herald
1 x Gallows at Willow Hill
1 x Descendants' Path


Version 2 Update:
I've had some games with the deck and it works surprisingly ok in my playgroup. While there is plenty to add, the most useful advice I got from friends post-games was what to cut. Admittedly they named pretty much werewolves exclusively so I'm going to have to temper their suggestions with the need to keep the tribal synergies at an appropriate saturation. I discuss that in the post below dated 2016-Aug-25 6:51PM.

I've made a couple of swaps already, but there are still some other options to be considered.
Door of Destinies went out because my goal is actively to actually NOT cast my werewolves whenever possible so that seems to be at cross purposes. I'm not sure if it's correct because I inevitably do cast some werewolves, but on the other hand it does literal nothing when it enters...
Xenagos, God of Revels went in for that spot.

Village Messenger is too easily outclassed and so has been replaced by Foe-Razer Regent.

I forgot to purchase Master of the Wild Hunt so at the moment it's being placeheld by Forgotten Ancient, but I really really like how Forgotten Ancient performs in the deck so I'll probably have to find something else to cut for the Master when I finally get one.

Additionally, the responses I got for Squee's Toy and Dogpile were very positive so I'm definitely keeping them. :)

Commander (1)
Ulrich of the Krallenhorde/Ulrich, Uncontested Alpha

Tier 1 Werewolves (14)
1 x Arlinn Kord//Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon
1 x Afflicted Deserter//Werewolf Ransacker
1 x Breakneck Rider//Neck Breaker
1 x Daybreak Ranger//Nightfall Predator
1 x Duskwatch Recruiter//Krallenhorde Howler
1 x Geier Reach Bandit//Vildin-Pack Alpha
1 x Hermit of the Natterknolls//Lone Wolf of the Natterknolls
1 x Huntmaster of the Fells//Ravager of the Fells
1 x Instigator Gang//Wildblood Pack
1 x Kruin Outlaw//Terror of Kruin Pass
1 x Mayor of Avabruck//Howlpack Alpha
1 x Mondronen Shaman//Tovolar's Magehunter
1 x Sage of Ancient Lore//Werewolf of Ancient Hunger
1 x Wolfbitten Captive//Krallenhorde Killer

Efficient Werewolves (10)
1 x Hanweir Watchkeep//Bane of Hanweir
1 x Hinterland Logger//Timber Shredder
1 x Kessig Forgemaster//Flameheart Werewolf
1 x Kessig Prowler//Sinuous Predator
1 x Lambholt Elder//Silverpelt Werewolf
1 x Lambholt Pacifist//Lambholt Butcher
1 x Scorned Villager//Moonscarred Werewolf
1 x Shrill Howler//Howling Chorus
1 x Smoldering Werewolf//Erupting Dreadwolf
1 x Ulvenwald Captive//Ulvenwald Abomination

Big bruiser Werewolves (not necessarily mana efficient) (2)
1 x Gatstaf Arsonists//Gatstaf Ravagers
1 x Tangleclaw Werewolf//Fibrous Entangler

Explicit werewolf support cards (9)
1 x Cult of the Waxing Moon
1 x Full Moon's Rise
1 x Howlpack Resurgence
1 x Immerwolf
1 x Moonlight Hunt
1 x Moonmist
1 x Spirit of the Hunt
1 x Ulrich's Kindred
1 x Waxing Moon

Wolf support (4)
1 x Kessig Cagebreakers
1 x Master of the Wild Hunt
1 x Pyreheart Wolf
1 x Wolfbriar Elemental

Crucial (2)
1 x Dogpile
1 x Squee's Toy

Transformation Support(16)
1 x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 x Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 x City of Solitude
1 x Uba Mask
1 x Heartwood Storyteller
1 x Elvish Piper
1 x Cryptic Gateway
1 x Quicksilver Amulet
1 x Belbe's Portal
1 x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
1 x Hibernation's End
1 x Lurking Predators
1 x Whisperwood Elemental
1 x Yeva, Nature's Herald
1 x Vedalken Orrery
1 x Isochron Scepter

Pump/Utility/Finishers (5)
1 x Xenagos, God of Revels
1 x Obelisk of Urd
1 x Predatory Focus
1 x Titan of Eternal Fire
1 x Foe-Razer Regent

Lands (37)
1 x Winding Canyons
1 x Mosswort Bridge
1 x Kessig Wolf Run
1 x Llanowar Reborn
1 x Raging Ravine
1 x Skarrg, the Rage Pits
1 x Spinerock Knoll
1 x Cavern of Souls
1 x Flamekin Village
1 x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 x Hanweir Battlements
1 x Fire-Lit Thicket
14 x Forest
11 x Mountain


What I'm mostly hoping to hear from you guys are individual card ideas that provide cool interactions. I've searched most of the obvious ones, but maybe I missed something. For example, I found Titan of Eternal Fire by accident and Foe-Razer Regent was pointed out to me at the prerelease.

Additionally if any of the cards I've already left out feel to you like they should be in the deck please let me know. When you make such a suggestion though, could you make a recommendation on what to cut for it? and maybe why?

Of course I'm open to any and all suggestions and welcome any dialogue.


Aside:
Awwww, you guys don't get [deck][/deck] tags over here? Oh well.

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Last edited by Flyheight on 2016-Aug-25 3:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-18 7:56 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Squee's Toy?

Anyway...I think you might consider taking out Door of Destinies from your list. It pumps your guys, but with the trigger condition requiring casting creatures--something you're generally trying to avoid--you'll be fighting yourself over it a little.

While I think playing Gallows at Willow Hill would be really cool, another pump effect from Vigor or Beastmaster Ascension would be better. I didn't see the Ascension listed anywhere, but it is absurdly easy to get going (although frequently the target of destruction).

Overall, a decent start and evaluation of werewolves. I'll have to continue combing through the deck to see if there's anything else I might recommend. I haven't checked my own werewolf deck yet to see if I previously found any gems I might mention.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-18 8:29 am 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
Thank you very much for replying Segrus. ^_^

According to MaRo, the name Squee's Toy is a pun on "squeeze toy", as in a dog's chew toy. Thus why it's here.

Ooh, I did not think about that Door of Destinies non-bo I've got going on. It should definitely be replaced then. I forgot about Beastmaster Ascension. It would definitely make all my werewolves combat viable even on their day side. I'll consider it for the slot.

And your signature reminded me that I need to put my thread here on the cumulative decklist thread.

Edit: Anyone know how to get Arlinn, Embraced By the Moon to autocard to the backside of Arlinn Kord rather than to the emblem?

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-18 1:11 pm 
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Location: Midgard
I suppose I knew about Squee's Toy, so I was more trying to question--while completely understanding the flavorful aspects of it--the validity of using it. It's just...so bad outside of something like Horobi, Death's Wail, I have to question it's inclusion. I don't mean to question your flavor resolve. Hopefully you'll get some laughs out of it during a game.

After going through some cards, my only other considerations were your rather low card draw and possibly wanting some haste. Like Fires of Yavimaya or something, but really the card draw is what's important. I don't know what the right amount of it is for Gruul decks, but I also seem to fit more and more into the decks I play. Lately, Shamanic Revelation has been crazy good with both card draw and saving my butt with some life.

There's probably a number of cards I *could* recommend to take out, but I'm afraid of diluting the flavor aspects of your deck. I might be tempted to pick one of your weaker werewolves, since you're currently sitting at...something like 40-ish werewolves/wolves? I hope that helps some.

I'm not sure about the autocard. I can't seem to get it to work out for the backside of Arlinn to appear. A glitch, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-18 2:42 pm 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
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LOL fair enough about Squee's Toy. If the deck becomes so truly pressed for space that I can't fit it in I'll cut it, but for now it stays. =p

Yeah, the deck is currently lacking a lot of basic EDH staple types (like removal...) because of how hard it's focusing on getting werewolves to transform.

Haste is something I hadn't considered, but I think I can answer that with the mana base:
Hanweir Battlements <-hehehe...almost makes me want to put in Hanweir Garrison since I haven't had the chance to meld anything yet, almost. XD
Flamekin Village
Hall of the Bandit Lord

Let's see...for card draw I currently have:
Duskwatch Recruiter
Sage of Ancient Lore admittedly it's only one card
Silverpelt Werewolf should be able to draw some cards with a little trample assistance of which I have several options
Heartwood Storyteller will inevitably end up drawing a few cards
Garruk, Caller of Beasts can dig pretty deep
Hibernation's End Tutors through my deck
Lurking Predators rips creaturs off the top
Whisperwood Elemental manifests a card off the top of my deck every turn. It might not be worth a full card on each trigger, but it's something for sure.

I don't know if I can reliably count on Hermit of the Natterknolls // Lone Wolf of the Natterknolls to draw me cards.

With all that accounted for I count 8 "card flow" spells. It probably isn't enough so I'll consider Shamanic Revelation and other things.

Please do go ahead and make recommendations on what to cut. The deck isn't a complete flavor slave, I want it to actually work. Dogpile and Squee's Toy are just silly cards I thought would be funny to add. I only labeled them as "Crucial" because their role is not necessarily obvious or well defined and I thought it would be amusing.
Though I must note that I only have 27 actual werewolves (28 with Arlinn) and I count 8 Wolves/wolf token makers... I guess 36 isn't that far off from 40.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 1:04 am 

Joined: 2012-Jun-01 6:02 am
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Location: South Carolina
While I don't quite like this card because of the land destruction, where is your Price of Glory?

Other spells that make your opponents tap out or punish them for leaving mana up in preparation to play spells on your turn like mana web, tectonic instability or maybe citadel of pain can help you have a quiet turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 6:41 am 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
GraphiteGolem wrote:
While I don't quite like this card because of the land destruction, where is your Price of Glory?

Other spells that make your opponents tap out or punish them for leaving mana up in preparation to play spells on your turn like mana web, tectonic instability or maybe citadel of pain can help you have a quiet turn.
Thank you GraphiteGolem, this is exactly the sort of information I am looking for! ^_^
Oh wow those are strong hate. I don't think I've seen those cards before.
They are a non-bo with my flash enablers, but would definitely deter opponents from casting spells on my turn.

My biggest concern is how unfun these cards could turn out to be. I imagine it would only be a handful of games before I'm jumped and dragged out to a dark alley for playing these. But it's definitely good to know they exist should I end up needing to go that hard on my opponent's not being able to do things on my turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 7:11 am 

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Flyheight wrote:
My biggest concern is how unfun these cards could turn out to be. I imagine it would only be a handful of games before I'm jumped and dragged out to a dark alley for playing these. But it's definitely good to know they exist should I end up needing to go that hard on my opponent's not being able to do things on my turn.

Yeah, I feel the same way, but you're already kind of shooting yourself in the foot by playing such a tough tribe, so I figured you might get away with it.

Keep in mind that Instability and Web (and War's Toll, which I forgot) let your opponents play spells, they just need to play most/all of them all during the same phase. They're annoying, but they don't shut anyone down completely. But I am taking this deck in a completely different, non-chill direction so I'll stop now.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 7:34 am 
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To be truthful, as far as werewolves should be concerned, Xenagos is better off being your commander because he supplements your creatures quite well in terms of mechanics akin to how Kruphix works well with Eldrazi as to Pharika with snakes as Phenax with Artifacts as Athreos with Allies.

Urlich can stay in the deck though for flavor

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-21 8:22 am 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
GraphiteGolem wrote:
Yeah, I feel the same way, but you're already kind of shooting yourself in the foot by playing such a tough tribe, so I figured you might get away with it.

Keep in mind that Instability and Web (and War's Toll, which I forgot) let your opponents play spells, they just need to play most/all of them all during the same phase. They're annoying, but they don't shut anyone down completely. But I am taking this deck in a completely different, non-chill direction so I'll stop now.
Thank you for your input, it is still greatly appreciated, even if I don't end up taking the deck that direction. Honestly the fact that opponents are still allowed to play some spells makes those particular options more palatable in my eyes.

RaiRai wrote:
To be truthful, as far as werewolves should be concerned, Xenagos is better off being your commander because he supplements your creatures quite well in terms of mechanics akin to how Kruphix works well with Eldrazi as to Pharika with snakes as Phenax with Artifacts as Athreos with Allies.

Urlich can stay in the deck though for flavor
That's one thing I've never understood. Why does Xenagos, God of Revels make a particularly good commander for werewolves? Is it because the deck is supposed to be focused on attacking and Xenagos enables that by being an indestructible enchantment that lets you get aggressive? Or is there another angle I'm missing? Does being that aggressive really offset the deck's transformation weaknesses? I understand he generally turns them into sizes comparable to their backside, but it's only one creature per turn and only until end of turn...

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-01 6:44 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
How about Mishra's Helix?

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-02 1:15 pm 
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Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Flyheight wrote:
GraphiteGolem wrote:
Yeah, I feel the same way, but you're already kind of shooting yourself in the foot by playing such a tough tribe, so I figured you might get away with it.

Keep in mind that Instability and Web (and War's Toll, which I forgot) let your opponents play spells, they just need to play most/all of them all during the same phase. They're annoying, but they don't shut anyone down completely. But I am taking this deck in a completely different, non-chill direction so I'll stop now.
Thank you for your input, it is still greatly appreciated, even if I don't end up taking the deck that direction. Honestly the fact that opponents are still allowed to play some spells makes those particular options more palatable in my eyes.

RaiRai wrote:
To be truthful, as far as werewolves should be concerned, Xenagos is better off being your commander because he supplements your creatures quite well in terms of mechanics akin to how Kruphix works well with Eldrazi as to Pharika with snakes as Phenax with Artifacts as Athreos with Allies.

Urlich can stay in the deck though for flavor
That's one thing I've never understood. Why does Xenagos, God of Revels make a particularly good commander for werewolves? Is it because the deck is supposed to be focused on attacking and Xenagos enables that by being an indestructible enchantment that lets you get aggressive? Or is there another angle I'm missing? Does being that aggressive really offset the deck's transformation weaknesses? I understand he generally turns them into sizes comparable to their backside, but it's only one creature per turn and only until end of turn...



Well combined with Obelisk of Urd and Coat of Arms, your creatures will be mega buff and if you figure a way to replicate his ability, you can have indestructible werewolves.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulrich of the Krallenhorde - Werewolf Tribal
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-25 3:51 pm 

Joined: 2016-Jul-17 2:12 pm
Age: Wyvern
OK. I have had some games with the deck. It functions very well and I'm happy with that, but it is exceedingly underpowered.

I also got some experience playing with different cards in the deck and got some appreciation for some of them. As for some of the others...well...I have a better idea of what can safely be cut. I also know more of what the deck needs.

I went ahead and updated the decklist in the original post. It's not really all that different, only a card here and there, but I figure it's best to have a clear starting point to what I'm working with for this post.

Definitely Out
1 x Wolfbitten Captive//Krallenhorde Killer <-though passable in 1v1, it's underpowered in multiplayer which is primarily what I play when I break out EDH.
1 x Hinterland Logger//Timber Shredder <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x Kessig Forgemaster//Flameheart Werewolf <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x Kessig Prowler//Sinuous Predator <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x Lambholt Pacifist//Lambholt Butcher <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x Smoldering Werewolf//Erupting Dreadwolf <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x Village Messenger//Moonrise Intruder <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x Gatstaf Arsonists//Gatstaf Ravagers <-underpowered in multiplayer
1 x Tangleclaw Werewolf//Fibrous Entangler <-underpowered in multiplayer, though not by too much I think
1 x Uba Mask <-While I do have ways around it, it just hurts me so much too
1 x Isochron Scepter <-too inconsistent
1 x Dosan the Falling Leaf <-nonbo with yeva and orrery
1 x City of Solitude <-nonbo with my entire deck plan (didn't realize it also shuts off abilities during opponents turns too)

Things strongly considered to add:
1 x Forgotten Ancient <-penalizes my opponents for flipping my werewolves back by making my team bigger
1 x Vildin-Pack Outcast//Dronepack Kindred <-I think the backside on this is big enough to warrant adding
1 x Taurean Mauler <-is a self growing "werewolf"
1 x Chameleon Colossus <-is a "werewolf" that can pump itself to titanic proportions
1 x Wolfir Silverheart <-is a gigantic wolf that makes another creature huge too
1 x Pathbreaker Ibex <-Win condition
1 x Spine of Ish Sah <-non-creature removal, can technically be recurred either by being caught in an artifact wrath or if I get really cute with Afflicted Deserter//Werewolf Ransacker
1 x Chaos Warp <-non-creature removal, hits indestructible things
1 x Batterskull <-Ulrich now gains me life each time he flips to his backside, he can also kill bigger things.
1 x Call of the Wild <-cardflow without casting a spell once it's down
1 x Caged Sun <-mana ramp and more pump
1 x Homura, Human Ascendant <-pump and flying, I can just fight it with Ulrich to put it in the 'yard
1 x Abundance <-cardflow without casting a spell once it's down
1 x Sylvan Library <-cardflow without casting a spell once it's down
1 x Staff of Nin <-Cardflow without casting a spell once it's down and a little damage
1 x Asceticism <-protects my creatures, I am a creature based deck and find that I work best once I have achieved a critical mass of puppies. This helps me achieve that critical mass
1 x Vigor <-protects my creatures and grows them at the same time. Particularly funny with Ulrich as it turns basically into a one sided fighting monster who grows with every hit.
1 x Krosan Grip <-noncreature removal
1 x Genesis <-cardflow without casting a spell once it's in the yard

I'm also going to find a few fun lands to swap in, like Okina, temple to the Grandfathers, but I haven't gone through and decided what I want yet.

Unfortunately the list right now is 13 out to 19 in, so there's definitely more progress to be done.
Does anybody have any thoughts on further cuts or if I shouldn't add some of the cards in my list?

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