Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Mar-26 8:41 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-14 4:43 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Well, since most know I am an avid detester of Kaalia of the vast as commander creature, I've taken the time to experiment with cards i posses online that will royally screw your average Kaalia deck. Now lacking the funds and access to a real computer at the moment, I cobbled together this deck with whateve creatures that are sadistic enough to deal with Kaalia in multiplayer setting. Mind you some cards in this deck are slightly redundant and would preferably be replaced by a reanimator.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1ddwqSa5i5EM0JXeTJUazUxdlE/view?usp=drivesdk

So what are your thoughts? Is it too aggressive or is the right touch to deal with Kaalia dhenanigans?

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-14 9:37 pm 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I have no idea because the provided deck list is untagged, unsorted, and therefore unreadable. Do check out the suggestion thread pinned in this subgroup on how best to present a decklist.

Strategy-wise, any deck that is built specifically to combat a single commander or archetype will suffer greatly against others. As you'll be facing two other commanders in an average game, it's rarely a good idea. A small package of cards to adjust to your meta is probably enough.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 1:35 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
It's hard to go through, but it looks like most of the cards don't really hurt Kaalia. A lot of stuff like Endless Ranks of the Dead and Exquisite Blood seem to do nothing. Grimoire of the Dead is far slower than even a kaalia deck without ezpz mana rocks.

Walking Atlas? Cellar Door? Worldslayer? Warp World? Explorer's Scope? Most of those are not very good and especially not very good if this is an anti-Kaalia deck. I seriously mean no offense but this is exactly why you even have problems with Kaalia. You have almost nothing to spot remove Kaalia.

Basilica, Carnarium, Temple of the False God, Forsaken Shrine, and Terrain Generator are all insanely slow. And i'm not saying you need to jam the 8 most powerful mana rocks ever conceived, but you really could do with 3x Signets, Fellwar Stone, Coldsteel Heart. I'd say Thought Vessel and Mind Stone but i think you need the colors since you have no duals/fetches.

But Temple of the False God and Forsaken Shrine are seriously way too slow, and you don't need them for the mana curve of your deck.

You need Swords to Plowshares, Condemn, Path to Exile, Disfigure, Lightning Bolt... Um, Innocent Blood, Fleshbag Marauder (and he has like 2 clones?). There's a lot of stuff at 2 mana is well.
Could also try some kind of board wipes. Wrath of God, Tragic Arrogance, and Day of Judgment cost like 0 dollars.

You don't need Open the Armory, most of the equipment is not worth searching for and should be cut.

I assume the Kaalia player is using Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves? Play artifact removal for those nasty equipments and for the early mana rocks. You can combo with another player to hit the Boots and then they hit the Cleric. Or the other way around.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 3:01 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I don't mind the RavKaroos, personally. Though they certainly shouldn't be your best duals. I wouldn't touch the Temple of the False God or Shrine of the Forsaken Gods with a tan foot pole though, at least outside an Eldrazi deck.

Edit: the original Karoos gotta go too. At least the Ravnica versions allow a tapped land to be bounced; the originals put your tempo back by two mana when they drop, which is unacceptable when you'd actually want them.

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 7:41 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Serious question: What does this deck do? How does it work, and how does it defeat Kaalia? I see so little synergy it's hard to make a recommendation. I'd like to help, but I need to know what you want the deck to do in order to give help.

Edit: Some of my recent posts had a patronizing tone; it seems like you have decided to jump in the deep end, and aren't responding to suggestions that maybe you aren't ready. So let's look at this deck, it's plan, and your choices, and see how we can help you improve.

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 8:01 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Serious question: What does this deck do? How does it work, and how does it defeat Kaalia? I see so little synergy it's hard to make a recommendation. I'd like to help, but I need to know what you want the deck to do in order to give help.

Edit: Some of my recent posts had a patronizing tone; it seems like you have decided to jump in the deep end, and aren't responding to suggestions that maybe you aren't ready. So let's look at this deck, it's plan, and your choices, and see how we can help you improve.


Tariel, Reckoner of souls is the commander and there is actually a number of combinations in here to start off with. Like I said some cards are redundant, but there is a number of combinations in here that work well together.ill point out some of the combinations

Blood artist and seeker combined, along with crypt ghast's extort, with exquisite blood generate life to cushion damage. Olivia Voldaren is crowd controlling some of the smaller creatures while working get larger and allows for the theft of your opponents creatures. Ayli is basically the sac engine and exiler, while King macar is the plan b combined with Burden of guilt to off some off the shenanigans that kaalia pulls out.

Altar of the brood is slightly redundant but it helps Tariel fish out creatures from an opponents graveyard, namely the angels, dragons and demons.

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 8:14 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
I'm going to be that guy. This deck is a convoluted mess. You really need to reevaluate your card choices in order for it to even function.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 8:44 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Marit Lage wrote:
I'm going to be that guy. This deck is a convoluted mess. You really need to reevaluate your card choices in order for it to even function.


I did say some cards are redundant and gladly replace them, so far the deck at least works to some extent since I would prefer stealing an opponents

graveyard
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I don't mind the RavKaroos, personally. Though they certainly shouldn't be your best duals. I wouldn't touch the Temple of the False God or Shrine of the Forsaken Gods with a tan foot pole though, at least outside an Eldrazi deck.

Edit: the original Karoos gotta go too. At least the Ravnica versions allow a tapped land to be bounced; the originals put your tempo back by two mana when they drop, which is unacceptable when you'd actually want them.


They are actually there to compensate for a bad hand or lack of a certain color, saying if drew mainly plains from my first hand, and had Orzhov Basillica or rakdos carnerium in it, 3rd turn I could get the needed three colors then slam down what i need to slam down.

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 9:00 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
RaiRai wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Serious question: What does this deck do? How does it work, and how does it defeat Kaalia? I see so little synergy it's hard to make a recommendation. I'd like to help, but I need to know what you want the deck to do in order to give help.

Edit: Some of my recent posts had a patronizing tone; it seems like you have decided to jump in the deep end, and aren't responding to suggestions that maybe you aren't ready. So let's look at this deck, it's plan, and your choices, and see how we can help you improve.


Tariel, Reckoner of souls is the commander and there is actually a number of combinations in here to start off with. Like I said some cards are redundant, but there is a number of combinations in here that work well together.ill point out some of the combinations

Blood artist and seeker combined, along with crypt ghast's extort, with exquisite blood generate life to cushion damage. Olivia Voldaren is crowd controlling some of the smaller creatures while working get larger and allows for the theft of your opponents creatures. Ayli is basically the sac engine and exiler, while King macar is the plan b combined with Burden of guilt to off some off the shenanigans that kaalia pulls out.

Altar of the brood is slightly redundant but it helps Tariel fish out creatures from an opponents graveyard, namely the angels, dragons and demons.


Combos aren't a gameplan. You have a ton of recursion effects that hit only your GY. What do they do? You have a bunch of creatures ETB/die under your control effects. Why? You need to be able to describe what your deck does as a whole, not what a few cards add to that whole. As it is I agree with segrus, this deck is a mess that has no idea what it wants to do.

Why Circle of Flame? How does that help against Angels, Demons, and Dragons? Why Endless Ranks? There are literally three sources of zombies. Why Intangible Virtue? You aren't pushing tokens. Whyopen the armory? There's only one or two equipment. Etc.

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 9:45 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
To be honest, the gaming gods have blessed this mess and I've been lucky with it online and I am just Caboosing along with it.

So far this deck seems to rely on the misfortune of others, robbing others graveyards , gaining life via extortion, and several combinations that unfortunately work. In games I have played against others, i take advantage of their graveyards once tariel's out, or if Olivia is out, snatch my opponents creatures. It largely relies others decks others deck to causes its havoc.

@Spectrar Ghost, Circle of flame is one of those redundancies i mentioned, and is a placeholder, but its good for deterring attacks from tokens. Intangible virtue is another redundant card that could stand to be replaced. Now Open the Armory is actually a good card in this deck consider I can tutor for either an Aura or an Equipment.

Depending on how early in the game we are or late, drawing that can mean the difference between a board wipe with (card)Worldslayer(/card), an enemy's commander coming under my conrol with (card)Unhallowed Pact(/card), or tapping a particular problem creature with (card)Burden of Guilt(/card). There's not exactly a win condition because if all else fails, Armageddon comes in the form of (card)Worldslayer(/card), forcing everyone to start from square one.

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 9:54 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
How do you control a commander with unhallowed pact? The commander replacement effect means their commander will never reach the graveyard to trigger it.

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 10:41 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
How do you control a commander with unhallowed pact? The commander replacement effect means their commander will never reach the graveyard to trigger it.


Unhallowed pact should work on commanders because its when it dies effect because it doesnt say when it is put in the graveyard. Aside from that, this deck mostly works for some reason.

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 10:43 am 

Joined: 2015-Jan-14 2:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
CR700.4. The term dies means “is put into a graveyard from the battlefield.”

_________________
Deepglow Skate
Antis wrote:
I'm seriously suspicious of any card that makes Doubling Season look fair and reasonable.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 11:00 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Here's the question that you must answer: how powerful is the general playgroup this deck is going to be up against? Because a little secret: Kaalia is easy to beat if you're willing to go balls to the wall and throw everything you've got at her. I personally have a Daretti deck that has literally never lost to Kaalia before, but it's also the kind of deck that is literally designed to prevent my opponents from doing anything until I draw myself into a game winning combo, meaning I never play it unless I literally don't care about anything but winning. Even without resorting to those types of tactics, it's still possible to beat Kaalia relatively easily, but you'd need to tell me what the average power level/social contract is.

_________________
Current Generals:
III Omnath, Locus of Mana III Thada Adel, Acquisitor III Geth, Lord of the Vault III Eight-and-a-Half-Tails III Zo-Zu the Punisher III BruseIkra III Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis III Kess, Dissident Mage, III AkriSilas III Grenzo, Havoc Raiser III Ghalta, Primal Hunger III Ambassador Laquatus III Anax and Cymede III Sidisi, Brood Tyrant III Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest III Ghave, Guru of Spores III Zurgo Helmsmasher III Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder III


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rairai's Vastbane Deck
AgePosted: 2016-Jun-15 11:54 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2016-May-16 12:03 pm
Age: Dragon
Location: The Blind Eternities
Uktabi_Kong wrote:
Here's the question that you must answer: how powerful is the general playgroup this deck is going to be up against? Because a little secret: Kaalia is easy to beat if you're willing to go balls to the wall and throw everything you've got at her. I personally have a Daretti deck that has literally never lost to Kaalia before, but it's also the kind of deck that is literally designed to prevent my opponents from doing anything until I draw myself into a game winning combo, meaning I never play it unless I literally don't care about anything but winning. Even without resorting to those types of tactics, it's still possible to beat Kaalia relatively easily, but you'd need to tell me what the average power level/social contract is.


Welp, To give you some background on my disdain for kaalia, at my former gameshop [I had to move away for monetary reasons], I was playing against a guy who earns booku bucks working for the Air Force, and spends a decent portion of his income on MTG and War Machine. His Kaalia Deck is probably worth 100$ to 200$ in terms of the value of cards in his deck, Having basically every Good angel, Demon, and Dragon at his disposal, not to mention a number of tutors. The worst part about his deck is that Kaalia often ends up coming turn two or three, with Swiftfoot boots or some similiar artifact shortly after that ends up attached to Kaalia.

When he does play it, my playgroup would immediately begin working against him to prevent what we know is coming, turning a free for all into 3v1 yet still manage to kick all collective teeth in with kaalia whom shatners out Iona, Shield of Emeria, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Angelic Arbiter, Angelic Field Marshal, Angelic Skirmirsher, Resolute Archangel, Lord of the Void, archfiend of depravity, bloodgift demon, defiler of souls, Dread Cacodemon, master of cruelties, Malfegor, Rune scarred demon, Sirenof Insanity, Dragon mage, Shockmaw Dragon and Syktharas. Not mentioning the number of spells and artifacts in his deck to protect Kaalia while giving her a ton of shenigans against stuff even such as board wipe, which you can see why I hate her. She is not friendly to the format in my opinion... Especially when said player uses abysall persecutor to prevent you from losing just so said player can wail on you.

Anyway, the Vastbane Deck is Designed to counter the aforementioned shenanigans by turning said Creatures against said player, if not using them your advantage. My Real life Athreos deck was the only thing that came close to standing up Kaalia one game by casting Aligned Hedron Network, or Deserter's Quarters. Still, like I said, opponent's kaalia deck packed enchantment and artifact removal....

_________________
Image

RaiRai's Decks of Otherworldlyness:

Unknown Horizons
Bane of the Vast 1.0
Call from Eternity
Twisted Nightmares


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 26 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: