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 Post subject: Sliver Queen Tokens - De-powered, looking for feedback
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-17 2:39 pm 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Edited for latest card list from 1/19/17:

This deck uses Sliver Queen as a Commander in a token deck. This was my first deck and it turns out it was too "good stuff" and has been blowing my friends out. To ramp down the power levels and keep the deck, I took out Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Tezzeret the Seeker, Liliana Vess, and Gaea's Cradle. I also took out good stuff combos like Dark Depths/Vampire Hexmage and Sword of the Meek/Thopter Foundry. I did add some burn that holds options such as burning enemies, gaining life, creating more tokens by hitting cards like Saber Ants, or drawing cards. The burn I added ends up holding more endgame feasibility in more cases than Rootborn Defenses and Boros Charm, especially in conjunction with Druids' Repository and Xenagos, the Reveler. Although I maintain two hard tutors still in the form Wargate and Supply / Demand that can search out Xenagos, the Reveler, the first priority is ensuring I have enough lands in play to run the deck and bring out tokens. Looking for some feedback on whether it's now down to a better level of power or not, and what problem areas are that leave the deck still too "good stuff" for good social interactivity, etc.

Commander: Sliver Queen

Lands: (35)
Scrubland (I've owned these dual lands for twenty years, so why not? :D )
Bayou
Tropical Island
Plateau
Volcanic Island
1 each of the Vivid lands
1 each of the Alara tri-lands
1 each of the Scars of Mirrodin dual lands that don't come into play tapped with two or less lands
Tolaria West
Volrath's Stronghold
Kessig Wolf Run
City of Brass
Forbidden Orchard
Reflecting Pool
Urborg
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Rupture Spire
Command Tower
Exotic Orchard
Kher Keep
Shimmering Grotto
Thespian's Stage
Transguild Promenade

Creatures: (26)
Seraph of the Masses
Battle Squadron
Keldon Warlord
Broodhatch Nantuko
Nest Invader
Hissing Iguanar
Hornet Nest
Wayfaring Temple
Eternal Witness
Tuktuk the Explorer
Mirror Entity
Rukh Egg
Kozilek's Predator
Ezuri, Claw of Progress
Nullmage Shepherd
Mycoloth
Ant Queen
Ghave, Guru of Spores
Rhys the Redeemed
Silklash Spider
Dragonlair Spider
Grave Titan
Deathbringer Thoctar
Meren of Clan Nel Toth
Saber Ants
Deranged Hermit

Enchantments: (5)
Druid's Call
Intangible Virtue
Necrogenesis
Goblin Bombardment
Druids' Repository

Artifacts: (6)
Leonin Sun Standard
Sol Ring
Expedition Map
Behemoth Sledge
Loxodon Warhammer
Darksteel Ingot

Instants: (8)
Arachnogenesis
Artifact Mutation
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Master's Call
Biomass Mutation
Aurelia's Fury
Second Harvest

Sorceries: (14)
Farseek
Retribution of the Meek
Wargate
Supply / Demand
Damnation
Saproling Symbiosis
Chain Reaction
Descent of the Dragons
Timely Reinforcements
Decimate
Invoke the Firemind
Lavalanche
Clan Defiance
Death Grasp

Planeswalkers: (5)
Xenagos, the Reveler
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Garruk Wildspeaker
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Sarkhan Unbroken

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


Last edited by Arcane Archer on 2017-Jan-19 8:47 am, edited 12 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-17 10:09 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
New EDH players are always welcome.

Say, for the benefit of future discussion, are you on any particular budget constraints? Maybe I overlooked where you talk about it. Also, do you already have a play group, or will you be jumping into an unknown meta?

Basically, there are a lot of possible suggestion I can think of off the top of my head, but it would help not to run smack into an obvious budget constraint. From the get-go, it doesn't look like you are necessarily as focused on tokens as you could be, given 5-color.

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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-17 11:30 pm 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Budget is selectively able to afford moderate cards. If it's over $20 for a single card, it's gotta be a really whiz-bang card. All the high $ cards in the deck are from when I used to have a budget and were owned since, for example, dual lands were $10 each. There are twenty-four sources of tokens, so I'm guessing your reaction is because I'm missing skme token staples, yeah?

As a rule, I tend to stay low in curve with decks, and this deck grew out of a 60 card highlander where nothing cost more than 5cmc, and no card required more than two of a single color of mana to keep the color producing realistic. These two combine to restrict token cards like Hornet Queen and Verdant Force fir the initial deck. Having said that, I'm open to anything you might suggest. Thanks!

One more note in that I do have creatures that have utility abilities stapled to their bodies. This is a holdover from when the deck used Recurring Nightmare to cycle etb effects. They are not strictly required, but they do give me control elements, so replacements of their effects to integrate with your token suggestions will also be appreciated. Thanks!

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 1:07 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
I'll admit I was looking on my phone at your list, so missed the initial mention about budget; however, I'm glad you've explained a little more. I probably would have asked for a further explanation rather than what I did, if I had seen your mention when I posted.

Alright, so, it's not that I was planning on suggestion some kind of token deck staple. I certainly can if you want, but there's no real reason to do that. For instance, Rhys the Redeemed is a mega staple, since his token doubling and low CMC makes him terrifying. He's also a rather expensive card (at $18.75 per SCG). Personally, I try to stay away from anything over/around $5 if I can help it. It's got to have some kind of freaking awesome artwork or effect I can't live without for me to consider anything over $10. So now for the nitty-gritty. You have a ton of cards here, and there's a whole lot which don't really have much to do with tokens. Making these changes isn't about making the most competitive build, it's about making a deck you'll be satisfied bringing to the table. I don't necessarily care about winning (although I do like to win sometimes), and instead care more about my deck just functioning properly.

Soul Warden--life gain without any additional uses will almost never help you. Commander damage tends to negate large life totals. Trust me, as my wife likes to play Trostani, Selesyna's Voice and regularly gets into 100-300 point life totals...and does still lose. If we need this effect, we'll find a better card to add it.

Wall of Omens
Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Souls--these three just aren't doing you all that much. Wall of Souls can be great in the right deck, but this isn't it. And there are much better draw effects in the game, even none staple ones.

Blazing Effigy--I'm really just not sure what this little guy is doing in here. Been a long time since I've seen him though.

Vampire Hexmage
Dark Depths--this might be pet cards and you're certainly welcome to keep them both in...but token decks are best in two forms: big tokens and small tokens. You've got a lot more of the small tokens deck going, and straying too far from it might make gameplay worse.

Liliana's Specter--this isn't the right deck for this card

Sylvok Replica--I believe there's an effect somewhere which would work better for this spot.

Necroskitter--Black Sun's Zenith is fine as a sweeper, if you want it, but this card does nothing for tokens.

Alloy Myr--I have the perfect card for this spot.

Skinrender--if we need a kill effect, there's other things we can put here.

Timely Reinforcements--while you might be able to gain a little life, I just don't feel like you're going to be getting tokens very often.

Vampiric Tutor
Diabolic Tutor--it is my opinion that tutor cards tend to make decks more competitive, but also more boring. The more you have, the more boring it gets. By replacing most tutors with actual cards, normally threats, it makes the game more fun. You don't have to remove these, but I would suggest you do.

Liliana Vess--yeah, pretty much the same reason above. Searching for answers every turn is nice and all, but that behavior normally ends up with you always searching for the same cards every time. There's likely a cooler card we can put in its place.

Okay, so looking at your cards, you have a lot of creatures which enter the battlefield and do something or die and do something. Since we can't get Recurring Nightmare in here, we'll just have to find a couple of equivalent effects:

Meren of Clan Nel Toth--one of the new Commanders from 2015, and I believe it'll be stellar in your build for getting those creatures back.
Phyrexian Reclamation--I this card might be borderline staple for some people, but I honestly don't see it played enough (you can tell due to its $0.35 pricetag on SCG). It's a good card, and it'll give a lot of the creatures you have added value.

And now, for some more ramp. You remember my perfect card replacement for Alloy Myr?

Druids' Repository--harder to kill than Alloy Mry and has so much more potential.

Also,
Farseek--dual land, anyone?
Forest
Swamp
Island--even with a low curve, you really need a few more land than 34. 36 should be a good number to start out on and see if you need more. No need to get fancy with them, so basic lands should do fine. (36 since I'm suggesting taking out Dark Depths.)

Token support--we took out other cards so we could fit in more token-related cards. Here they are:
Archnogenesis
Druid's Call--you have all the others with this effect, so might as well add this one too.
Flamewright--I'm thinking about its interaction with Thopter Foundry here. It's not awesome, but still gives you tokens and adds to your overall picture.
Rootborn Defenses--indestructibles your creatures, and then you can Chain Reaction the board.
Wayfaring Temple--low-cost big/big in your deck while also possibly giving you more tokens
Ezuri, Claw of Progress--another newer Commander card, and goes crazy with tokens. This guy will be part of your end game plan.
Intangible Virtue
Leonin Sun Standard

And for the final spot, my initial suggestion would be Aura Shards. That being said, it's closer to being a staple than any other card I've suggested and comes with a ~$5 pricetag (according to SCG). It'll be the best, low-CMC card for the effect, but it's not vital to your construction. Sundering Growth or Artifact Mutation could work here just fine. If you can't decide or find you don't want another of these effects, then try out another land.

If I've suggested something which ends up being really expensive and I didn't mention anything about price, it's likely because I didn't realize it is 'suddenly' really expensive. If I haven't been clear about something, please let me know. I believe these changes will lead to satisfactory play experiences for you, so hopefully it isn't too overwhelming. I tried to stick true to your outlined preferences (although I've admittedly suggested a lot of things).

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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 8:20 am 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Sliver Queen is not budget, but seems really Whiz Bang + only 5 color legend that makes tokens i think


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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 9:49 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Sovarius wrote:
Sliver Queen is not budget, but seems really Whiz Bang + only 5 color legend that makes tokens i think

Yeah, you're right. Love this card, but one of the guys in my regular group is a Sliver Overlord deck player. Probably should have mentioned that! :D Essentially that is what my Ant Queen is in there to replace. Would love two generators like that, but oh well. She's a bit spendy anyway, lol.

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 3:18 pm 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Segrus wrote:
I'll admit I was looking on my phone at your list, so missed the initial mention about budget; however, I'm glad you've explained a little more. I probably would have asked for a further explanation rather than what I did, if I had seen your mention when I posted.

Alright, so, it's not that I was planning on suggestion some kind of token deck staple. I certainly can if you want, but there's no real reason to do that. For instance, Rhys the Redeemed is a mega staple, since his token doubling and low CMC makes him terrifying. He's also a rather expensive card (at $18.75 per SCG). Personally, I try to stay away from anything over/around $5 if I can help it. It's got to have some kind of freaking awesome artwork or effect I can't live without for me to consider anything over $10. So now for the nitty-gritty. You have a ton of cards here, and there's a whole lot which don't really have much to do with tokens. Making these changes isn't about making the most competitive build, it's about making a deck you'll be satisfied bringing to the table. I don't necessarily care about winning (although I do like to win sometimes), and instead care more about my deck just functioning properly.

Soul Warden--life gain without any additional uses will almost never help you. Commander damage tends to negate large life totals. Trust me, as my wife likes to play Trostani, Selesyna's Voice and regularly gets into 100-300 point life totals...and does still lose. If we need this effect, we'll find a better card to add it.

Wall of Omens
Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Souls--these three just aren't doing you all that much. Wall of Souls can be great in the right deck, but this isn't it. And there are much better draw effects in the game, even none staple ones.

Blazing Effigy--I'm really just not sure what this little guy is doing in here. Been a long time since I've seen him though.

Vampire Hexmage
Dark Depths--this might be pet cards and you're certainly welcome to keep them both in...but token decks are best in two forms: big tokens and small tokens. You've got a lot more of the small tokens deck going, and straying too far from it might make gameplay worse.

Liliana's Specter--this isn't the right deck for this card

Sylvok Replica--I believe there's an effect somewhere which would work better for this spot.

Necroskitter--Black Sun's Zenith is fine as a sweeper, if you want it, but this card does nothing for tokens.

Alloy Myr--I have the perfect card for this spot.

Skinrender--if we need a kill effect, there's other things we can put here.

Timely Reinforcements--while you might be able to gain a little life, I just don't feel like you're going to be getting tokens very often.

Vampiric Tutor
Diabolic Tutor--it is my opinion that tutor cards tend to make decks more competitive, but also more boring. The more you have, the more boring it gets. By replacing most tutors with actual cards, normally threats, it makes the game more fun. You don't have to remove these, but I would suggest you do.

Liliana Vess--yeah, pretty much the same reason above. Searching for answers every turn is nice and all, but that behavior normally ends up with you always searching for the same cards every time. There's likely a cooler card we can put in its place.

Okay, so looking at your cards, you have a lot of creatures which enter the battlefield and do something or die and do something. Since we can't get Recurring Nightmare in here, we'll just have to find a couple of equivalent effects:

Meren of Clan Nel Toth--one of the new Commanders from 2015, and I believe it'll be stellar in your build for getting those creatures back.
Phyrexian Reclamation--I this card might be borderline staple for some people, but I honestly don't see it played enough (you can tell due to its $0.35 pricetag on SCG). It's a good card, and it'll give a lot of the creatures you have added value.

And now, for some more ramp. You remember my perfect card replacement for Alloy Myr?

Druids' Repository--harder to kill than Alloy Mry and has so much more potential.

Also,
Farseek--dual land, anyone?
Forest
Swamp
Island--even with a low curve, you really need a few more land than 34. 36 should be a good number to start out on and see if you need more. No need to get fancy with them, so basic lands should do fine. (36 since I'm suggesting taking out Dark Depths.)

Token support--we took out other cards so we could fit in more token-related cards. Here they are:
Archnogenesis
Druid's Call--you have all the others with this effect, so might as well add this one too.
Flamewright--I'm thinking about its interaction with Thopter Foundry here. It's not awesome, but still gives you tokens and adds to your overall picture.
Rootborn Defenses--indestructibles your creatures, and then you can Chain Reaction the board.
Wayfaring Temple--low-cost big/big in your deck while also possibly giving you more tokens
Ezuri, Claw of Progress--another newer Commander card, and goes crazy with tokens. This guy will be part of your end game plan.
Intangible Virtue
Leonin Sun Standard

And for the final spot, my initial suggestion would be Aura Shards. That being said, it's closer to being a staple than any other card I've suggested and comes with a ~$5 pricetag (according to SCG). It'll be the best, low-CMC card for the effect, but it's not vital to your construction. Sundering Growth or Artifact Mutation could work here just fine. If you can't decide or find you don't want another of these effects, then try out another land.

If I've suggested something which ends up being really expensive and I didn't mention anything about price, it's likely because I didn't realize it is 'suddenly' really expensive. If I haven't been clear about something, please let me know. I believe these changes will lead to satisfactory play experiences for you, so hopefully it isn't too overwhelming. I tried to stick true to your outlined preferences (although I've admittedly suggested a lot of things).


So I like the suggestions. I've been thinking about them at work, all day. Thank you for your time. I have one concern going forward, but I think I know where you're going with the suggestions. With me taking out so many early creatures (which is needed in standard 60 card free-for-all to deter early assaults from various horde decks such as kithkin, elves, vampires, slivers and goblins) this would normally leave me very slow. However, between the suggested added mana ramp and the general slower pace of EDH, this is not as much of a problem?

Having said that, I see the following changes matching my tendencies, pending testing.
Soul Warden for Druids' Repository. I like how this has tremendous upside later in a game when I might also have Gaea's Cradle out. Drop this, pump the hordes, swing for the fences, then use the mana to shore up my defense following the assault.
Wall of Blossoms for Farseek. Totally forgot about this card that lets me fix my mana base if drawn early.
Wall of Omens for Arachnogenesis. So excited about this card...a bloody fog on top of a swarm of spiders! Can I get an "Amen!"?
Wall of Souls for Druid's Call. Totally agree on adding this to the pile of Chain Reaction bait. And, plus, squirrels, right?
Blazing Effigy for Flamewright. She has no interaction with the Thopter Foundry that I can think of. Having said that, if she isn't aced (much like planeswalkers), those tokens add up from these slower sources when I have mana available, or I'm not dropping the bomb from more prolific cards.
Liliana's Specter for Rootborn Defenses. Like the populate mechanic, and the indestructible for a turn is something they'll never see coming. This in addition to Saber Ants and the like = real trouble.
Necroskitter for Wayfaring Temple. This was meant for Elspeth to fly it over, or else Rancor. Getting rid of the Necro, though, was tough largely because I haven't yet popped the Necroskitter/Zenith combo. Zenith is staying in, though, because it begs to be used for weakening indestructables with Gaea's Cradle.
Skinrender for Ezuri, Claw of Progress. Token attrition loves this dude.
And now we get to the hard subs.
Liliana Vess for Intangible Virtue. I place high value upon deck consistency, even though I often used tutoring for land, something I need badly at that time, not just for a singular combo to pop. Basic resources are something I'm OK searching for since I run a low curve. I'd rather search out my next color source than top-deck it. Having said all that, she can leave since something like Ezuri is a great replacement as a threat.
Sylvok Replica for Leonin Sun Standard. The standard is just too powerful in conjunction with the mega-mana sources I'm running in this deck to not use. The replica, however, was a hard take-out largely because it's a creature that needs no colored mana to put into play, helping with early color screw. It was also recurrable destruction, but I agree there is better stuff out there.
Alloy Myr for Artifact Mutation. Over Aura Shards, this gives me specific, cheap token creation at the expense of my friend's mana rocks like Thran Dynamo or swords of x/y. My primary artifact and enchantment killer is still the Nullmage Shepherd. Aura Shards is still amazing, however, and if I find I'm making enough hordes early, I may swap that in.
Diabolic Tutor for Meren of Clan Nel Toth. Another hard swap, but this one is such a threat to bring back creatures that earn hate like Terminate and sweepers, that I can't not put it in, even with the reduced creature count.

What you didn't see, obviously, is the basic land count going up. Given the additional fixing, and having kept my low-cost tutors, this should make my low-cost curve a little bit faster than it is, pending curve testing. That could change if I find myself with any sort of pattern for mana problems. Your concerns on that point are very duly noted and filed for revisiting. I just have a hard time drawing more land instead of threats later on, so I always run low and accept the occasional bad game. I kept the smaller generators like Master's Call and Timely Reinforcements to go along with additions you suggested above, helping to serve for early blocking while bigger creature generators come online. Finally, leaving in the Vampire Hexmage and Dark Depths. There are enough mass-mana generators that I won't have to have the hexmage to pop for Marit Lage, which is a threat I have used quite well in the past and the token is so shiny and scary...it's like a foil Cthulu! And the hexmage is such an awesome utility creature, it's worth keeping her just on her own merits.

Feel free to comment further on these choices...loved the suggestions, excited to see what these do for me as they appear to be very balanced on defense, ramping, and offense.

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-18 10:00 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Alright! Glad I could be helpful rather than seem oppressive. I've been hoping I haven't seemed too much like "GAH YOUR DECK IS WRONG AND I MUST FIX IT" and more "Hey, here's some things I know from my play experience, and some specific card suggestions which align with that thinking." So, a few things:
1) When I suggested Flamewright, I meant to connect it to getting back Sword of the Meek. I was thinking about the Thopter Foundry combo, and how Flmaewright also uses artifact tokens...but I didn't finish all of those thoughts out before I started typing. Doi!

2) I did my best not to increase your overall early game desires: average CMC of cards I'd take out is 2.4875; average CMC of cards I suggested is 2.0625. At the same time, yes, getting a really quick, early game with those creatures isn't normally going to do you much good. And those creatures aren't generally going to do you any good except as blocking fodder later on in the game. For example, one of the decks I tend to play around newer players is my Green Devotion Polukranos deck. By turn four, there's a high likelihood I'm wheel-slamming Polukranos onto the table. I'm going to follow that up with Wolfir Silverheart or Kalonian Hydra or some other big/nasty, and go to town. You'll be on defense mode from thereon out, as it'll be difficult for you to match my card quality with those small creatures.

With the suggestions I've made, I was attempting to give you a better chance in these cases. Wins before turn 4 should be incredibly rare, and wins turn 6 or later should be expected (well, turn 6 is possibly a mite too early, and I'd say turn 8 or so is what I see on average in a 3-person game, but 6 is often the unspoken rule*). Your deck needs to be able to build up enough momentum so that you can initially discourage people from attacking you, and then threaten lethal damage soon after. So it's not about making you slow, it's about making you strong on the right turns of the game.

And if the people you are playing against are winning really early, then it's absolutely going to be due to a combo you won't be able to stop with small creatures anyway. These aren't the only possibilities out there, and once you get a few games in with this deck you can tell us what works and what doesn't.

*this is due to the number of powerful 6-,7-,8-cost cards which can come down on turn six and start threatening people sufficiently.

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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-19 2:19 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Yeah, no worries. I had a suspicion I wasn't treating the theme right with those creatures in. Which then brings up what you said about threats and winning turn 8ish. Going with my list as it is, do you see enough threats to win versus a Sliver Overlord deck and a Legends deck (commander varies upon taste)? Those are the decks I know about, though I suspect dragons and angels are also in the mix. I'm not saying I am reconsidering the theme, but it brings to mind that line from The Door's song, "You got the guns, we got the numbers."

I'm working a second decklist using Rafiq of the Many. It essentially is going the opposite direction by pumping Rafiq with auras as the main threat, and using etb creatures as ench/artifact removal/other toolbox effects, chump blocking and early attacking (think natural card advantage intended) while the exalted creatures sit back. I'll post when I work out enough of the list and determine if that's even the way I should be going.

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-19 10:12 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
I'm not certain how well you'll fair. It really depends on how aggressive those decks are made to be. You'll have to play a game or two and see what happens.

Happy deckbuilding!

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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Mar-20 6:42 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Yep, but that's why I kept most of my tutors, and I have four sweepers. Gives me some insurance policy! :P

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck - now a Sliver Queen token deck!
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-09 2:47 pm 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Segrus wrote:
I'm not certain how well you'll fair. It really depends on how aggressive those decks are made to be. You'll have to play a game or two and see what happens.

Happy deckbuilding!

Segrus, you'll be happy to know that in four games of EDH, my tokens won half of them. In the first game, I was taken down pretty low by a voltron commander, only able to absorb 4 more points before I died when I dropped the Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek combo and started blasting out 1/1 fliers using Gaea's Cradle. Next turn, I Volrath's Strongholded Eternal Witness onto the top of the library, cast it, brought Saproling Symbiosis into play after blasting out a ton more 1/1 fliers, ending up with about 100 tokens, whereupon I sac'd them to Goblin Bombardment for the win. So yeah, pretty degenerate. :D

Next game my planeswalkers and legends did their share of damage as Garruk spit out three 3/3 beasts before he died, Rhys doubled my tokens, Elspeth kept jumping big creatures over the top of blockers, Sarkhan Vol both powered buff/hasty attacks all game and toyed with a voltron commander using his second ability to keep him under control, and Liliana tutored up the second half of the Dark Depths combo to seal the win, even though the six beast tokens and an Elspeth-buffed Ant Queen were the real beaters throughout the game.

Bonus? My friend had a Sliver Queen, and traded her to me, allowing Cromat to act as commander only when playing against a Sliver Overlord deck. I took out Spidersilk Armor to put in Deathbringer Thoctar as a post-night adjustment, which should really do well in this deck. In any case, thanks for your assistance with this first EDH project. The deck held its own...looking forward now to finishing that Xenagos/hydra deck. Salute!

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-13 11:37 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Hey Segrus, after some consideration, going to get rid of a lot of those tutors and the combos which rest solely on them to come out. That frees up 8 slots to add threats and land, though keeping the remaining tutors that can go for mana. The revised list is at the top of this thread. What do you think?

Out:
Dark Depths
Vampire Hexmage
Demonic Tutor
Liliana Vess
Vampiric Tutor
Sword of the Meek
Thopter Foundry
Tezzeret the Seeker
Rancor

In:
Island
Plains
Mountain
Rafiq of the Many
Behemoth Sledge
Loxodon Warhammer
Battle Squadron
Second Harvest
Keldon Warlord

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-13 3:24 pm 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I have a few suggestions for token generators:
Hangarback walker (colourless is good, but may stretch the budget )
Ogre Slumlord (That's any nontoken creature...)


And in many token decks playing G+W:
Aura shards


(More) card draw:
Mentor of the Meek

Anti-sweepers:
Caller of the Claw


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 Post subject: Re: Cromat token deck
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-14 5:02 am 

Joined: 2016-Mar-16 12:03 pm
Age: Drake
Nice suggestions. None of them stand out as titans to immediately put in, but they are all solid. If something doesn't work well in the current lineup, these can make good possible replacements. Ogre Slumlord in particular would make a nice replacement if having three */* threats don't work out well since the cmc is in the right range. Thank you for taking the time to reply!

_________________
Current decks:
Xenagos, God of Revels - Hydras

Under Re-Construction:
Hazezon Tamar - Defenders of Dune (only 8 less Fremen/equipment, adding ramp and answers)
Prime Speaker Zegana - Zegana's R&D
Jenara, Asura of War - Jenara's Celestial Army (needs more answers, ramp, less angels...turns out Jenara can tank quite effectively as a voltron.)

Nuked decks:
Sliver Queen - Tokens (converted back to the 60 card deck it originated from, ending its edh dependency on tutors)


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