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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - Voltron + Fatties - 17/10/2016
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-16 3:29 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Latest changes I'm trialling:

Legion's Initiative -> Cataclysmic Gearhulk
Daretti, Scrap Savant-> Endbringer/Protector of the Crown
Land Tax -> Sigarda's Aid

Not happy about the Land Tax cut, but I needed to find a way to just fit Sigarda's Aid in and see how it runs with the rest of the list. Land Tax is weaker without Daretti, so might be OK too.

I never once lived the dream with Legion's Initiative and always appreciate more removal.

Daretti was a good source of card selection, recursion and draw (with Land Tax), but I need to try both these fatties and see how they do.

Thoughts on Combustible Gearhulk anyone? I'd love to fit in Endbringer, Protector of the Crown AND possibly the Red Gearhulk, and if I could, I think the entirety of my draw package is looking super solid for a R/W list.

EDIT: OP updated finally to reflect all changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - Voltron + Fatties - 17/10/16
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-17 6:37 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm a huge fan of Combustible Gearhulk but mainly in decks that include Goblin Welder and can cycle it in and out of play. Feldon, Daretti and the like. If your best case is to cast it once, MAYBE twice per game it seems pretty lackluster. To its credit, it does trigger Kalemne's XP gain, and carries Equipment suitably well, but that still only makes it "fine" IMO.

In short I'd say there's nothing wrong with running it if you have clearly worse cards you can cut for it, but if you're list feels pretty well-tuned and you don't have any obvious underperformers that can be replaced by something just generically good, I'd give it a pass.

Also, any consideration for Urabrask instead of/addition to Fervor? I get that Haste is pretty good with Kal but I've just never been impressed by Fervor. I recognize that the pro of Ferver is that it comes town the turn before Kalemne, as opposed to the turn after, but Urabrask can pick up Equipment, and making your opponents creatures enter tapped has proven to be very good for aggro decks in my experience. Also the praetor gains XP, as a nice side bonus. That said my Kalemne deck wasn't QUITE as all-in on the pure speed plan so maybe the T3 haste enabler before T4 Kalemne is more important than I realize.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - Voltron + Fatties - 17/10/16
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-17 11:06 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
thaumaturge wrote:
I'm a huge fan of Combustible Gearhulk but mainly in decks that include Goblin Welder and can cycle it in and out of play. Feldon, Daretti and the like. If your best case is to cast it once, MAYBE twice per game it seems pretty lackluster. To its credit, it does trigger Kalemne's XP gain, and carries Equipment suitably well, but that still only makes it "fine" IMO.

In short I'd say there's nothing wrong with running it if you have clearly worse cards you can cut for it, but if you're list feels pretty well-tuned and you don't have any obvious underperformers that can be replaced by something just generically good, I'd give it a pass.


Alright, thought so, especially given that I cut Daretti. I forgot Daretti gets back Cataclysmic Gearhulk though, so that's another rabbit hole to consider...

Quote:
Also, any consideration for Urabrask instead of/addition to Fervor? I get that Haste is pretty good with Kal but I've just never been impressed by Fervor. I recognize that the pro of Ferver is that it comes town the turn before Kalemne, as opposed to the turn after, but Urabrask can pick up Equipment, and making your opponents creatures enter tapped has proven to be very good for aggro decks in my experience. Also the praetor gains XP, as a nice side bonus. That said my Kalemne deck wasn't QUITE as all-in on the pure speed plan so maybe the T3 haste enabler before T4 Kalemne is more important than I realize.


I do really like Urabrask and he has been on my short list of cards right a long Sigarda's Aid and a few other nice cards that aren't removal, draw, or ramp (which I can never get enough of). I especially like him since Thalia's Lancers have been printed.

He simply can't replace Fervor though for the exact reason that getting Kalemne swinging and putting pressure out turn 4 is massive in my meta. I pop so many strong lists that are just flat out unprepared for that kind of early pressure.

I still struggle on top of that with the fact that I never want to play Urabrask before Kalemne, I always want to play him before. The haste part is what is so important about Fervor, and hence why Urabrask would need to be interchangeable with that. The tap opponents creatures part is valuable of course as well, just not the focus. So under the haste criteria, Urabrask never actually counts as a 5 drop for a experience points purposes, unless I am solely casting him just as a fatty and for the tap effect...

Urabrask also dies to Wrath of God along with Kalemne, making it almost impossible or at least obnoxiously convoluted to simply recast Kalemne and swing again next turn. Fervor only has this problem when facing down the rarer full board wipes. Fervor is also strong with Sun Titan.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - Voltron + Fatties - 17/10/16
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-17 11:58 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Fair enough. Have Knollspine Dragon and/or Sandstone Oracle been good? I've tried both out and been largely disappointed. Knollspine in particular - everytime I have him I wind up really needing to cast him before combat but of course he'd be terrible then.

What about Caldera Hellion? Seems random. Do you ever have spare creatures to Devour? Or is he just a 5-mana Anger of the Gods thay happens to trigger XP gain?

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - Voltron + Fatties - 17/10/16
AgePosted: 2016-Oct-17 12:11 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
thaumaturge wrote:
Fair enough. Have Knollspine Dragon and/or Sandstone Oracle been good? I've tried both out and been largely disappointed. Knollspine in particular - everytime I have him I wind up really needing to cast him before combat but of course he'd be terrible then.

What about Caldera Hellion? Seems random. Do you ever have spare creatures to Devour? Or is he just a 5-mana Anger of the Gods thay happens to trigger XP gain?

Sandstone Oracle is amazing for me. I think it could be meta dependant though, as it is very rare all my opponents are low on cards. I never get less the 4 cards from it.

Knollspine you might be right on. I have yet to fill my hand with it come to think about it and it is terrible after a wipe. Definitely haven't seen it often enough to pass full judgement, but so far has not impressed. Easy cut for Protector of the Crown if it continues to under perform. Con 2 hasn't released on MTGO yet, so I have more time to test at least.

Caldera Hellion is a on curve 5 drop that clears most blockers by that point and does not kill Kalemne basically. Turn 3 Kalemne, turn 4 Hellion can be very strong, swinging for 8 into a empty board. Late game I wish it was Crater Hellion though. 4 damage hits a lot more...

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