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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-23 4:36 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Jelik wrote:
I really dislike desolation giant. I've had it blinked too many times, last time I played it I was forced to return it to the battlefield from my graveyard- sad times. Might I suggest some other options:

Sunblast angel
Yosei
Urabrask the hidden
Master Yamabushi
Elesh Norn

Actually, that is a good point tbh. I factored in Living Death ruining my day, but I didn't think about an opponent blinking it.

I might just Akroma's Vengeance it up then, as I can cycle it when I don't need it, and when I do need it, you usually really need it.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-24 6:19 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Ugh, it was a tough night tonight.

Faced a Mizzix who just went off easily and uninterrupted. Did manage to kill Mizzix once and apply pressure, but the other two players just sat and watched, so it was a 1v1 and I did not draw enough removal. Turn 1 Sol Ring had a lot to do with this.

Second game against new Ezuri and he got a early unanswered Gyre Sage out.

I was one turn late wiping his board with Caldera Hellion and being able to kill the Gyre. Kuphrix player was also doing crazy things with Seedborn Muse, which I was able to shut down with Jitte, but still managed to get out and clone two Consecrated Sphinx, and then promptly scooped when Ezuri cast Take his Gyre Sage and caused Kuphrix to basically deck himself. That was pretty funny.

Alas, third player playing Karlov also did nothing and Ezuri quickly took over the game.

Last game was against Food Chain Prossh.

Bad bad night for games. Felt a little outclassed by some powerful cards.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Nov-26 11:07 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Some changes on the board:

Waves of Aggression -> Victory's Herald
Balefire Liege -> Sunrise Sovereign
Rebuff the Wicked -> Faith's Shield
Mistveil Plains -> Weathered Wayfarer
Lightning Greaves -> Flamerush Rider

Evasion and more ways to find haste is the theme here. Power is nothing on Kalemne if she can't connect. Faith's Shield protects against ETB creature removal and could be a form of evasion as well.

I wasn't happy losing a 5 drop so Flamerush came back in (over Liege, because I recogonise it now as a permanent way to pump Kalemne without adding to the battlefield) .

I know I said haste is important, but Lightning Greaves proved many times as awkward as it can be when you have equipment in hand or on board but no other creatures to switch Greaves onto and my opponents foam at the mouth for the moment I un-equip it. I got Hall of the Bandit Lord back in, so adding Weathered Wayfarer to find any of the 3 haste lands should make up for the loss.

Considering:
Fellwar Stone -> Hedron Archive
Oath of Lieges -> Thran Dynamo

Oath of Lieges lost me a game when I couldn't turn it off and fed a the table resources way faster then I could kill them. I'm always suspicious of cards that help my opponents.

Both these additions would give me some better late game at the expense of some early game.

If the above doesn't work out, I'd keep Fellwar Stone and cut Oath for Hammer of Purphoros, Fleetfeather Sandals, keeping that early game pressure as high as possible or Akroma's Memorial for a late game punch. Seriously can't get enough haste and evasion.

Keen to hear what anyone thinks about these changes.

Fleshbag Marauder and friends have been a pain in the ass a few games, but not sure how to solve that outside of Assault Suit or Kher Keep.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2015-Dec-08 4:18 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
What do you guys think of Conduit of Ruin?

It fetches Sandstone Oracle, but I would want to add at least one more colourless 7 or 8 drop to make it work and I've searched them all, nothing stands out except Breaker of Armies, but I am open to other opinions. Maybe Kozilek as well, but it doesn't curve well off Conduit.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Jul-12 8:06 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
Haven't played or posted in months, but had a itch to update this list...

Anya, Merciless Angel -> Thalia's Lancers

Easy update, massive no brainer. Fetches:

Umezawa's Jitte
Tenza, Godo's Maul
Aurelia, the Warleader
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Iroas, God of Victory
Hall of the Bandit Lord

Insane utility, has me looking at a selection of legendary creatures, but mostly:

Odric, Lunarch Marshal
Elesh Norn
Bruna, the Fading Light
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Kozilek, the Great Distortion

Odric, Lunarch Marshal is a improved Concerted Effort. Both these cards pass all the buffs I stack on Kalemne to all my other creatures and would also often pass flying onto Kalemne.

Elesh Norn fills the same role as Caldera Hellion, but also buffs. Higher CMC, but keeps chump blockers off permanently.

Bruna, the Fading Light has a surprisingly large amount of targets, but I am not sure if it is better or worse then Artisan of Kozilek. Thalia's Lancers are also a Human, so you get some extra strong synergy between these two.

Artisan would be fetchable by Conduit of Ruin, and if I added either Kozilek, I'd suddenly have another sweet tutor package in Conduit -> Sandstone Oracle/Kozilek/Artisan of Kozilek (or Breaker of Armies).

As said though, I'm not sure if Bruna or Artisan are worth it. Conduit of Ruin keeps looking amazing, but still suffering from worthy targets (though fetching Sandstone Oracle alone is almost enough...), and Bruna is just a cheaper Artisan that has less targets...

The combined package possibilities of Thalia's, Bruna, Conduit, Kozilek, and Artisan loop basically amounts to a tonne of potential card advantage though...

Last card I am considering is Sigarda's Aid. Probably insane and dangerous in this list.

I keep forgetting Spirit en-Dal as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-15 12:27 pm 
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This thread has developed a bit of a echo...

Latest change is trialing Umezawa's Jitte for Whispersilk Cloak.

Jitte suffered from the same issue I had with Sunforger. Tutoring and equipping Jitte arch enemies you so fast, I've never once lived the dream of one shotting anyone with it.

Cloak is the definition of evasion and protection, and while it interferes achingly with equip cards, getting to 4/4 or 6/6 with Kalemne by fatties alone isn't difficult. A unblockable, shrouded, 2 or 3 turn clock is fantastic.

On the chopping block:

Outpost Sige - Too difficult to prioritize the exiled card against other demands. Often just ended up exiling my Akroma's Vengeance (for example) that was a bad time to cast now, but I could have easily used a turn or two later...

Duergar Hedge-Mage - Few games found it difficult or frustrating to get active. Can't decide if I should replace with another 3 drop permanent for Sun Titan, or a 3 drop instant/sorcery to possibly put in Goblin Dark-Dwellers.

Leonin Abunas - mostly to find a desperate cut, it has value but hasn't been a all star. See anything above to fit is as a replacement.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-15 1:21 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Did you see the infinite attack combo of flamerush rider and Aurelia, the Warleader?

There are a lot of cool ETB effects in this deck. Did you consider any blink or maybe bounce cards?

Honestly my Kalemne deck blows the rest of the decks I play against out of the water with little help and yours is much more finely tuned.

To add to the lancer toolbox:
Archangel Avacyn- a good way to prevent someone from playing wraths...
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker- another way to utilize your ETB creatures.

Also Loxodon Warhammer wins games.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-15 1:35 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
Jelik wrote:
Did you see the infinite attack combo of flamerush rider and Aurelia, the Warleader?


I did not see that, but my meta is sometimes cutthroat enough that stumbling on it and having access to it isn't bad. Nice.

Quote:
There are a lot of cool ETB effects in this deck. Did you consider any blink or maybe bounce cards?


Blink or bounce would be great, any suggestions that fit with the list and wouldn't just be a throw in? Flamerush Rider is sort of my "blink" fatty, and I've eyed Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker for the same reason (also answering your suggestion below).

Quote:
Honestly my Kalemne deck blows the rest of the decks I play against out of the water with little help and yours is much more finely tuned.

This list has easily tied with Xenagos as my two lists I enjoy piloting the most. Glad your list is performing for you as well :).

Quote:
To add to the lancer toolbox:
Archangel Avacyn- a good way to prevent someone from playing wraths...
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker- another way to utilize your ETB creatures.

Also Loxodon Warhammer wins games.


HHnnnnnnng I forgot Kiki was legendary. The shear amount of cuts I want to find could make me cry.

Question: Iroas, God of Victory versus Spirit en-Dal.

For the cost of 1W per turn, Spirit en-Dal does everything Iroas does for Kalemne, but better. Iroas is legendary though and better if I want to connect with more then 1 creature. Add Loxodon Warhammer to the comparison as well I guess, since that is evasion as well.

Not allowed to say run all three without offering cut options :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Possible changes:
Caldera Hellion -> Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Leonin Abunas -> Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Iroas, God of Victory -> Spirit en-Dal
Mizzix's Masterty -> Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Duergar Hedge-Mage -> Council's Judgment

Outpost Siege -> Kozilek, the Great Distortion

Seems like a set of balanced changes.

I've isolated the Outpost Siege spot because I'm not sure if Kozilek is the right card without Conduit of Ruin, even though it can be fetched by Thalia's Lancers.

I'm also no sure with the addition of kiki, the added draw will be needed (though saying that goes against everything I believe in and hurts), since kiki can now be used to often re-use the effects I do have by blinking various creatures.

I could use that spot to keep Caldera Hellion, Iroas, God of Victory or smash in Sigarda's Aid.

Hellion is slightly less critical, since the addition of Elesh and Spirit en-Dal deals with defending token armies well. Hellion has been clutch a few times though.

Iroas, God of Victory is good where Spirit en-Dal is not, which is a sticky form of soft evasion that works great when I re-cast Kalemne with haste (which is often).

Sigarda's Aid, I keep reading and re-reading and just 100% know this should be in.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-18 6:17 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Caldera Hellion for Elsh norn- is a strong change out. Note that copying Norn will kill creatures 4 toughness at the same time the legend rule kills the token (assuming you pick the token). She is such a strong token prevention machine.

Leonin Abubas is an easy pick to remove, I think.

I would stick with Iroas. I'm just not seeing spirit en-dal being all that great. When they do block with Irroas out you are going to profit anyway.

Mizzix's mastery. Depends on what you plan to copy. same with goblin dark-dwellers.

I like hedge mage, but tend to play a lot of basics. Council's judgement excels in single opponent games, not sure about multiplayer.

I'd go with Sigarda's Aid, I think. Kozilek is kinda changing what the deck wants to do. Unless you just use him to refuel?

Loxodon Warhammer- is just such a good card. The lifelink is what takes it over the top. Without any exp counters it makes Kalemne swing for 12 life gained. This could go in the same place as dark-dwellers in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-18 11:29 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
Four pages and no mention of Bestial Fury?


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-18 11:49 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Jelik wrote:
Caldera Hellion for Elsh norn- is a strong change out. Note that copying Norn will kill creatures 4 toughness at the same time the legend rule kills the token (assuming you pick the token). She is such a strong token prevention machine.

Leonin Abubas is an easy pick to remove, I think.

I should have realised this interaction when someone cast Rite of Replication kicked on Elesh just two nights ago and wiped my board clean.

Quote:
I would stick with Iroas. I'm just not seeing spirit en-dal being all that great. When they do block with Irroas out you are going to profit anyway.


Still not sure but growing happier with Spirit en-Dal honestly. When it comes to efficiency, I don't want them to have the chance to block at all, even if I come out ahead. I want to smash as much damage through as fast as possible. Spirit is also busted with Swords.

Online is funny too, I've had players just auto-concede to one solid unblockable hit with Kalemne. They know its removal or bust.

Quote:
Mizzix's mastery. Depends on what you plan to copy. same with goblin dark-dwellers.

Well, I plan to copy any of the following:
Faith's Shield
Boros Charm
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Oblation
Chaos Warp
Council's Judgment
Wheel of Fortune
Steelshaper's Gift

That's a pretty solid list of cards I think, so the spot is worth it. Mastery gets Akroma's Vengeance and Phyrexian Rebirth as well, but Goblins are blinkable and a fatty.

Quote:
I like hedge mage, but tend to play a lot of basics. Council's judgement excels in single opponent games, not sure about multiplayer.

I like Hedge Mage as well, and thought I ran enough basics until I played a few games in a row and could not get him active.

Quote:
I'd go with Sigarda's Aid, I think. Kozilek is kinda changing what the deck wants to do. Unless you just use him to refuel?

Kozilek was just to refuel ya, and would be fetchable by Lancers and Conduit (if I found a spot for it).
I was unsure how often I reach 10 mana though for it not to be stuck in my hand.

With the new Monarch Giant coming out from Conspiracy 2 though, he will be taking this spot instead. I think he will be solid affordable draw in this list.

That does mean I still need to find room for Sigarda's Aid though.

Quote:
Loxodon Warhammer- is just such a good card. The lifelink is what takes it over the top. Without any exp counters it makes Kalemne swing for 12 life gained. This could go in the same place as dark-dwellers in my opinion.

The equip cost is always what put me off Loxodon, I try to keep that usually no higher then 2. Recasting Kalemne gets expensive, especially if I want to give her haste. If I manage to fit in Sigarda's Aid as per above, Warhammer starts looking way more appealing.
Marit Lage wrote:
Four pages and no mention of Bestial Fury?

This would be strictly worse than Loxodon Warhammer IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-18 8:16 pm 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
It's an additional Warhammer, not a replacement. Also, I had almost forgotten about O-Naginata. Basically another Warhammer.

Personally, I use these:
Loxodon Warhammer
O-Naginata
Tenza, Godo's Maul
Bestial Fury
Sunforger
Spectra Ward
Spirit en-Dal
Argentum Armor
Glory
Lightning Greaves
Swiftfoot Boots


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-18 8:43 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Marit Lage wrote:
It's an additional Warhammer, not a replacement. Also, I had almost forgotten about O-Naginata. Basically another Warhammer.

Personally, I use these:
Loxodon Warhammer
O-Naginata
Tenza, Godo's Maul
Bestial Fury
Sunforger
Spectra Ward
Spirit en-Dal
Argentum Armor
Glory
Lightning Greaves
Swiftfoot Boots

All fine choices, but I don't see how they are better than my current picks, unless you offer a explanation to why you think so. I can't fit in infinite cards :( So Bestial Fury can't be in "addition" to Loxodon Warhammer when I can't find room to include the Warhammer at all.

There was a big discussion on Sunforger already, so let's not go there again though haha.

I run 4 equipment tutors as well, so there isn't a strong reason to run more equipment at all either. I don't need a huge list of equipment, I only need to run 5 or 6 of the best picks (which I think I've covered) and let the 4 tutors just be copies of them. Effectively O-Naginata is not basically another Warhammer for example. Steelshaper's Gift is literally another Warhammer, or if the Hammer is gone, it's a Whispersilk Cloak, or a Sword etc. etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-19 12:15 am 

Joined: 2016-Feb-13 2:14 pm
Age: Drake
Location: Orlando, Florida
GoodbyeWorld wrote:
All fine choices, but I don't see how they are better than my current picks, unless you offer a explanation to why you think so. I can't fit in infinite cards :( So Bestial Fury can't be in "addition" to Loxodon Warhammer when I can't find room to include the Warhammer at all.

There was a big discussion on Sunforger already, so let's not go there again though haha.

I run 4 equipment tutors as well, so there isn't a strong reason to run more equipment at all either. I don't need a huge list of equipment, I only need to run 5 or 6 of the best picks (which I think I've covered) and let the 4 tutors just be copies of them. Effectively O-Naginata is not basically another Warhammer for example. Steelshaper's Gift is literally another Warhammer, or if the Hammer is gone, it's a Whispersilk Cloak, or a Sword etc. etc.

Fair points. Honestly, I just love the card, and I think it deserves more love, like Withering Boon or Curse of the Swine. Plus, it looks like your meta has a bit more combo than mine does.


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 Post subject: Re: Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas - R/W Voltron/Aggro
AgePosted: 2016-Aug-19 5:02 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-07 11:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I don't run whispersilk cloak. I'd also suggest the hammer over any sword of x & y. The life swing is really what does it.

I also don't favor evasion as much as you do. I'd usually rather trample over a creature than just hitting my opponent.

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