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 Post subject: lazav, dimir extravaganza. Help needed
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-03 9:34 am 
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Joined: 2014-May-09 5:41 pm
Age: Wyvern
I finally decided to make a lazav deck. I loved lazav since it was spoiled and generally like taking other people stuff. I put down a decklist for him, but the problem is that I am stuck on cuts.
I would like to make this deck a controll-ish deck that generates card advantage through creatures, stalls out the early game and ends the game with lazav himself or one of the big creatures the deck has. It is not a mill deck but it has some mill cards to help the general and some other cards work better.

I need to make 14 cuts and I am still open to suggestions or cards that I might have missed.

Lazav, Dimir Mastermind

Creatures (26):

Baleful Strix card advantage and a flying blocker with deathtouch.
Sygg, River Cutthroat more card advantage, cheap body, I wanted to play him in this deck, it could act as a secondary commander for the deck with a few changes.
Chasm Skulker one of my favourite m15 cards, can get big fast with all the card draw and windfall effect.
Dimir Doppelganger targeted grave hate that can turn into a big creature.
Jace's Archivist cheap repeatable windfall that can get rid of a bad hand and fuel lazav at the same time.
Royal Assassin repeatable removal.
Shadowmage Infiltrator I like drawing cards.
Thada Adel, Acquisitor I do not have a sol ring, but you do...
Clever Impersonator cloning all your things.
Disciple of Bolas really like this card, it can save you from a lot of bad situations.
Evil Twin clone with a twist.
Notion Thief Also steals your card draw.
Phyrexian Metamorph It can clone creatures or artifacts.
Consuming Aberration huge creature that gets bigger, mills your opponents and helps lazav.
Havengul Lich brings back your creatures for 1 more mana or can take someone elses creature if they are in the right colours.
Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker repeatable mind funeral.
Arcanis the Omnipotent Sir. ancestral vision .
Geth, Lord of the Vault steals your artifacts and creatures and fills up your graveyard.
Oona, Queen of the Fae let's make an army of faries.
Wrexial, the Risen Deep in my playgroup it's almost unblockable and you can probably hit something good with it.
Chancellor of the Spires does not exile the spells that he takes.
Diluvian Primordial big flyer that makes use of a full graveyard.
Sepulchral Primordial reanimates anything in an opponents' grave.
Silent-Blade Oni fantastic ability with the added bonus of being a demon ninja.
Mindleech Mass a bit expensive but i love his ability.

Instants (16) :

Pongify cheap removal.
Counterspell is the original and the cheapest counterspell that i run.
Cyclonic Rift instant speed one sided bounce everything for 7 mana.
Dimir Charm very flexible, deals with a lot of different situations.
Echoing Truth can bounce any nonland permanent and deals with tokens swarm.
Lim-Dûl's Vault this card is incredibly powerful, instant speed and very cheap.
Dissolve counter and scry, better version than cancel.
Hinder i do not like to tuck generals, is usefull against graveyard decks.
Perplex gives the player a tough choice or is the only tutor of the deck.
Psychic Strike conterspell that mills and costs a single blue.
Fact or Fiction value on my value.
Grisly Spectacle removal that mills.
Memory Plunder i love this card, can be an instant speed wrath for 4 mana.
Aetherspouts tempo swings that saves you from bad situations.
Murderous Cut never cast this card for 5 mana.
Time Stop so simple yet so effective.

Sorcery (14):

Black Sun's Zenith sometimes you need to deal with problematic board states...
Curse of the Swine or creatures that keep coming back.
Grim Discovery to retrieve important land and creatures. Mainly for the lands.
Mind Grind put a lot of mana into this to secure the game.
Mind Funeral cheap spell that fuels lazav.
Pull from the Deep instant and sorcery recursion.
Rite of Replication because 5 creatures are better than 1
Whispering Madness repeatable windfall for the win.
Acquire thank you for this present.
Beacon of Unrest reusable reanimation.
Life's Finale wrath that entombs 3 creatures for lazav to copy.
Stolen Identity I play with this card a lot and is always game changing.
Decree of Pain I did say that I like drawing cards.
Rise of the Dark Realms it's time to empty the graveyards...

Artifacts (14):

Sensei's Divining Top library manipulations.
Dimir Signet mana fixing
Mask of Riddles now all your creatures can become Shadowmage Infiltrator.
Mindcrank in edh people are going to lose life, stops vampiric tutor effects ( i do not want to run the combo with duskmantle guildmage or bloodchief ascension).
Crystal Shard can bounce my ETB creatures or mess up an opponent that taps out.
Darksteel Ingot lazav is mana intensive. indistructible matters in my meta.
Darksteel Plate suit up lazav.
Mimic Vat love this card, the advantage that this card can give is insane.
Sword of Body and Mind the best sword to suit lazav.
Bident of Thassa card draw for my creatures or can use the ability together
with Aetherspouts to clear someone's field.
Grinning Totem let's see what lazav can become.
Shield of Kaldra see darksteel plate.
Trading Post versatile fun card that can help me recur artifacts.
Whip of Erebos lifelink and reanimation.

Enchantments (6):

Phyrexian Reclamation cheap way to recur my creatures.
Animate Dead recursion that can reanimate opponents' creatures.
Phyrexian Arena card advantage.
Rhystic Study more card advantage or a way to slow your opponents down.
Control Magic 4 mana; your creature is now mine.
Confiscate nice land you got there.

Planeswalkers (1):

Jace, Memory Adept card draw or mill 10 every turn, plus takes the heat off me making him the primary target.

Lands (36):

Academy Ruins artifact recursion.
Buried Ruin
Darkslick Shores
Dimir Aqueduct
Dismal Backwater
Drowned Catacomb
Esper Panorama
Island 9
Jwar Isle Refuge
Nephalia Drownyard
Polluted Delta
Reliquary Tower
Tainted Isle
Tectonic Edge
Temple of Deceit
Temple of the False God
Thespian's Stage
Tolaria West
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Watery Grave

This is the decklist I have so far, if you could help me out with cuts and suggestions it would be great.

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 Post subject: Re: lazav, dimir extravaganza. Help needed
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-03 1:29 pm 
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Joined: 2013-Apr-09 11:11 am
Age: Drake
Location: San Diego
Mirko Vosk: I've tried playing this guy in decks before and its actually pretty hard to get him to hit someone. He costs 5 for a terrible body and since his ability only triggers on combat damage it usually just doesn't happen. It might be a meta situation but he would be the first cut for me.
Pongify: a great removal spell for blue but black has much better options. The fact that the monkey can trade with Lazav is another point against it. Go for the Throat is a solid replacement.
Grisly Spectacle: high cost singe target removal usually puts you pretty far behind, especially in multiplayer.
Perplex: seems like a cool ability at first but is strictly worse than a regular counterspell. Undermine is a pretty nice counterspell in these colors (works great with Sygg too). Countersquall or Soul Manipulation are good too depending on what you need to counter.

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 Post subject: Re: lazav, dimir extravaganza. Help needed
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-03 5:03 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
If you are playing this deck mainly in multiplayer, you should be careful about the number of 1-for-1 answers you have. In a 4-player game, Arcane Denial is the best cheap counter. With it, you are even on cards, two opponents are even, and one opponent is up a card (-1 card advantage). With Counterspell you are down a card, one opponent is down a card, but two are even (-2 card advantage). For the same reason, I like Dream Fracture more than Dissolve.

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 Post subject: Re: lazav, dimir extravaganza. Help needed
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-11 2:27 pm 

Joined: 2012-Nov-16 2:29 pm
Age: Wyvern
Hi. Big fan of Lazav here as well. From my experience with him in Commander -

1. Mesmeric Orb is the best card in the deck. Try each of the 2 mana transmutes - Muddle the Mixture, Dimir Infiltrator, and Shred Memory in order to go find it. Those also get your Black Sun's Zenith and Mind Grind for good measure. Also consider the 2UU Muse that works similarly to the Orb. Once you see Mesmeric Orb, it then opens up the sweet blue flashback cards, Academy Ruins, and your Psychic Spiral kill.

2. You could try the Windfall approach to milling - Windfall, Whispering Madness, Jace's Archivist. These effects effectively mill each opponent (for Lazav) and can net you card advantage if you're deck is built lower-to-the-ground when compared to your opponents OR you play a decent amount of bounce to setup your brutal Windfall effects. Cyclonic Rift is even more brutal than usual in Lazav if you're running the Windfalls.

3. Minimize your number of colorless lands, and maximize the number of mana rocks that accel you from 2 to 4 and fix your mana - Dimir Signet, Talisman of Dominance, Coldsteel Heart. This way you can get Lazav on the table turn 3. One funny kill I had one time was turn 2 rock, turn 3 lazav, turn 4 traumatize, someone flipped Ulamog, Lazav Shapeshifted into it and cleaned up.

GL and HF

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 Post subject: Re: lazav, dimir extravaganza. Help needed
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-12 5:39 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Dimir Doppelganger slow, redundant.
Royal Assassin slow, no synergy.
Shadowmage Infiltrator slow, weak effect.
Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker slow, terrible.
Lim-Dûl's Vault could just run demonic tutor.
Perplex you want arcane denial & dream fracture as the first counterspells. Also negate.
Psychic Strike incidental mill isn't as good as creature kill. Just kill what you want to copy.
Grisly Spectacle too expensive. I'd prefer sever the bloodline or slaughter.
Mind Funeral mill is terrible.
Mindcrank I'd prob cut this.
Shield of Kaldra expensive.

I agree with the windfall plan. That is a lot better than it sounds. Always turns out to be to my advantage.

Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists

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