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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-15 6:15 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Blame my yet-to-play paranoia for my reticence about the Hydra. As I mentioned in the original post, I'm not playing yet, on account of having a very restricted budget and mobility (like I could afford gasoline in the first place; living in Boston for so long may have spoiled me, and now that I'm stuck on Cape Cod with its limited public transportation...). I just want to make sure that I don't end up wasting money on cards that prove unviable. The paranoia, meanwhile, may have come from people commenting on an earlier Roon build I was working on that certain cards would bring suspicion of a combo onslaught (i.e. Tooth and Nail and Defense of the Heart, even though I only considered them for EtB easing). I've been paranoid ever since.

That said, I would consider swapping the Hydra for the Archangel, simply because it would make the green overreach that much less severe (I try to balance the three colors as much as possible).


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-15 7:09 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Skyknight wrote:
...may have come from people commenting on an earlier Roon build I was working on that certain cards would bring suspicion of a combo onslaught...

Yeah...but the problem there is it being a Roon deck. Roon decks are more or less notorious for being combo-oriented, and therefore people are much more likely to gang up on a Roon deck unless a bigger liability is at the table (say, for instance, if Zur is around I'll choose hitting Zur before Roon). This is a problem with Roon you shouldn't see with Jenara, especially since Hydra synergizes specifically with Jenara.

Furthermore, your examples of Defense of the Heart and Tooth and Nail are a far cry more dangerous than Hydra ever could be (mostly because those two cards normally spell the end of the game this turn rather than maybe some time down the line if Hydra doesn't get killed). I know you're just providing examples, but it feels like you might be wanting to compare the impact of their effects. I assure you, while Kalonian Hydra is definitely scary to be sitting across the table from, T/N and Defense have me scrambling for cover.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You might think about trying a website/Cockatrice to simulate your deck and testing it. The Game Thread in the Random Chatter forum is definitely willing to help test decks if you're able. It's been a while since a game has gone on there (a month or two, I think), but I can try to be around if I know when.

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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-15 6:24 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Segrus wrote:
The Game Thread in the Random Chatter forum is definitely willing to help test decks if you're able. It's been a while since a game has gone on there (a month or two, I think), but I can try to be around if I know when.


I am available Mon-Fri, but it is pretty late 2 am GMT (7 pm the previous day MST) so if you have insomnia or live west of Cali hit me up!

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2015-Jan-15 11:31 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Inkeyes22 wrote:
Segrus wrote:
The Game Thread in the Random Chatter forum is definitely willing to help test decks if you're able. It's been a while since a game has gone on there (a month or two, I think), but I can try to be around if I know when.


I am available Mon-Fri, but it is pretty late 2 am GMT (7 pm the previous day MST) so if you have insomnia or live west of Cali hit me up!

Not all of us live in the Euro-zone. 02:00 GMT is around 20:00 my time. No insomnia required. Although, there may be a little trouble trying to gather a third contestant...

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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-18 1:30 pm 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Really should have brought this up before, but...

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2015-01-29

Does the second list look familiar?

I'll take this as a sign that the chart is doing something right, at least. I didn't think it would classify as "offbeat", though. Is it the ability conduction theme?

Of course, I'll have to be on the lookout for other ingredients from Dragons of Tarkir soon. Elite Scaleguard is hopefully a harbinger of more ability conduction. (Too bad it won't be in blue...)


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-13 2:34 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Zipping this back to the top, now that DTK cards are fully known. There's a list of everything that caught my eye in the original post. (Now how come I couldn't find any useful blue cards...?)


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-17 10:28 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
First post-DTK true edit. I replaced a couple of outlasts with analogous Gatecrash critters, as well; I'm hoping the higher mana cost isn't a problem. (On the other hand, blue gets a bit more presence.)

OUT: Abzan Falconer, High Sentinels of Arashin, Spike Weaver, Tuskguard Captain
IN: Crowned Ceratok, Inspiring Call, Sapphire Drake, Sunscorch Regent


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2015-Sep-15 9:10 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
Now that BfZ spoilers are in full swing, there's a fair number of cards already that catch my eye:

Endless One
Serene Steward (depends on how much lifegain I have in here)
Clutch of Currents (The awaken cards give the lands counters for their size--making them instant candidates for the radiant effects.)
Rush of Ice
Earthen Arms
Greenwarden of Murasa (Eternal Witness/Deadwood Treefolk crossbreed)
Infuse with the Elements
Murasa Ranger
Oran-Rief Hydra
Retreat to Kazandu
Rot Shambler
Tajuru Stalwart
Woodland Wanderer
Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper
Roil Spout
Skyrider Elf
Prairie Stream
Canopy Vista

In the case of the two lands, it's a matter of what would work better--Glacial Fortress/Sunpetal Grove, or them.

In other news, I'd also like to see if I can fit some ramp in here. Unfortunately, I can't think of that many Commander-compatible ramp spells; all that come to mind are things like Skyshroud Claim, Nature's Lore, Untamed Wilds, and Rampant Growth. Granted that the average CMC in this deck is low, so I don't know if ramp is strictly necessary.

Cards that I may abjure if necessary:
Cauldron of Souls
Forgotten Ancient
Meadowboon
Prophet of Kruphix
Reincarnation
Supply // Demand
Sword of Light and Shadow
Kjeldoran Outpost (Although finding another white land that works well is tough; I'm just worried about whether the tokens do enough with the theme, without things like Phantom General in here.)


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2016-Apr-04 3:19 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
(I'm hardly going to start a new thread when I only have six cards changed. Now if I could just make up my mind between the Vorel chart and this...)

I've begun looking into MTGO as a way to get around my transportation issues (even when I do get my license, I'm not liking the half-hour drive to Barnstable I'll have to make every time I want to play) and cost problems (can't say I like the price tag attached to Archangel of Thune, though), only to find that Custodi Soulbinders doesn't exist there. At least it made fitting Altered Ego in easier--instant slot. Likewise, I've adjusted for the banning of Prophet of Kruphix, as well as fitting in some ramp.

OUT: Chord of Calling (feeling a little uncertain about this...Need to take another look at what Demand can find), Custodi Soulbinders, Kjeldoran Outpost, Prophet of Kruphix, Reincarnation, Sapphire Drake

IN: Abzan Falconer (which of this and Sapphire Drake goes in depends on whether white or blue is lacking in presence more), Altered Ego, Cultivate, Map the Wastes, Seedborn Muse, Skyshroud Claim

EDIT: Kicked out the tutors, and fitted in some more mana fixing.

OUT: Supply // Demand, Enlightened Tutor, Eladamri's Call, 1*Plains

IN: Fertilid, Knight of the White Orchid, Renegade Krasis, Cradle of Vitality


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-16 2:42 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
OUT: Cenn's Tactician, Crowned Ceratok, Meadowboon, Renegade Krasis, Seedborn Muse, Cradle of Vitality, Travel Preparations

IN: High Sentinels of Arashin, Kalonian Hydra, Shinewend, Tuskguard Captain, Vigean Graftmage, Triumph of Ferocity, Collective Effort

And meanwhile, I'm eyeing the possibility of the following Kaladesh cards (pity none of the blue or colorless cards caught my fancy for this deck...):
--Aetherstorm Roc
--Armorcraft Judge
--Cultivator of Blades
--Durable Handicraft
--Fairgrounds Trumpeter
--Ninth Bridge Patrol
--Verdurous Gearhulk

The problem is who to remove. I'm considering jettisoning Sword of Light and Shadow (I'm not sure triggering the Archangel is enough to justify it), and possibly Triumph of Ferocity for specifically Armorcraft Judge.

On a side note, would there be a problem replacing Coalition Relic with Darksteel Ingot? I put the Relic in specifically because I was looking for something to replace Obelisk of Bant, and then I find I forgot about the Ingot. At the very least, the Ingot is a lot cheaper...


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2016-Sep-16 8:07 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Skyknight wrote:
On a side note, would there be a problem replacing Coalition Relic with Darksteel Ingot? I put the Relic in specifically because I was looking for something to replace Obelisk of Bant, and then I find I forgot about the Ingot. At the very least, the Ingot is a lot cheaper...

Darksteel Ingot is pretty solid, or Commander's Sphere is another you could use. Either of these have their merits (although Ingot is still cheaper).

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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2017-Jan-06 5:03 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
OUT: Triumph of Ferocity
IN: Armorcraft Judge

And looking at Aether Revolt, a few cards (almost all in green, go figure) jump out at me:
--Skyship Plunderer strikes me as a potential replacement for Vorel. That much less dependence on green, flying, doesn't need mana to increase counters. The bad news is that it's a bit frail at 2/1, meaning it can easily be stopped once everyone has fliers and/or reachers on standby. (Yes, I know having counters around mitigates that. But it'll still take some doing.)
--Lifecrafter's Gift is mostly a thing to add sheer bulk with, and doesn't give counters to anything bereft of them. However, it's still nice for anything that spends +1/+1 counters (Twilight Drover, Fertilid, Shinewend, Vigean Graftmage...)
--Ridgescale Tusker, on the other hand, adds counters quickly to your army. (Too bad you still need some other way to give IT a counter.)
--And finally, there's Rishkar, Peema Renegade, which adds yet more utility to the +1/+1 counters.

Now I just need to figure out who to cut away to make room. Increasing Savagery seems the likeliest target, since it only affects one creature per casting.


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2017-Nov-02 6:19 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
And after the desert-for-+1/+1-counters-theme that was Amonkhet (no pun intended), I've found two or three good things for the theme in Ixalan. (Now if I could just find room for Shapers of Nature, although High Sentinels of Arashin, Sage of Fables, and Zameck Guildmage may be enough on their own)

OUT: Battlefront Krushok (partly because of the Herald), Coalition Relic (too expensive for my blood), Meteor Crater, Minamo, School at Water's Edge, Plasm Capture, Skyshroud Claim, Treva's Ruins
IN: Bellowing Aegisaur, Commander's Sphere, Herald of Secret Streams (arguably a little odd to have this and Tuskguard Captain in the same deck), Spell Swindle, Temple of Enlightenment, Temple of Mystery, Temple of Plenty

One end result is that the green overreach is no longer so severe (that's why the Krushok and Skyshroud Claim were removed). I'm just worrying about whether or not I have enough ways to deal with artifacts; I originally had Forsake the Worldly in my chart before I unearthed the Aegisaur.

EDIT: Finally got around to removing one of my talisman cards in favor of the Shapers (although green has a more notable overreach again; 16% G/14% W/14% U).

OUT: Sower of Temptation
IN: Shapers of Nature

EDIT THE SECOND: Found a way to fit in Rishkar. Although now I'm wondering if I have too many creatures. Not to mention that, not having played yet, I'm worried I kicked out the wrong card (there's a reason I record each and every edit on this thread).

OUT: Increasing Savagery
IN: Rishkar, Peema Renegade


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 Post subject: Re: Bless the Wings v0.2 (Jenara +1/+1 counter schemes)
AgePosted: 2018-Mar-03 10:48 am 

Joined: 2011-Jan-03 4:23 pm
Age: Drake
After ignoring this for a while, I’ve begun editing it again.

OUT: Shapers of Nature, Strength of the Tajuru, Sword of Light and Shadow
IN: Hadana’s Climb, Resplendent Griffin, Strength of the Pack

I’ll admit ambivalence about the Strengths. Tajuru is more flexible, but Pack can easily have better efficiency (a 4GG Tajuru will give exactly three creatures two tokens apiece). May need to think on this more...

I’m also considering Phantom Nishoba again, mostly because I have a CMC6 and CMC8, but not a CMC7. (I know, I’m a fussbudget...) Having the Archangel of Thune in this chart helps. Still, I can’t work out what to remove. Resplendent Griffin, maybe? It gets counters easily, but is otherwise kind of bland. One other CMC7 I’m considering is Gladehart Cavalry.


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