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 Post subject: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-27 9:00 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The other thread is too many pages of me posting updates, so how about a fresh start? The commander is different now anyway.

Commander: Sidisi, Brood Tyrant


Altar of Dementia
Mesmeric Orb
Birthing Pod

Birds of Paradise
Deathrite Shaman
Essence Warden
Gravecrawler
Viscera Seer
Blood Artist
Fauna Shaman
Hermit Druid
Phantasmal Image
Reassembling Skeleton
Riftsweeper
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Scavenging Ooze
Cadaver Imp
Death Baron
Diregraf Captain
Eternal Witness
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Loaming Shaman
Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Reclamation Sage
Undercity Informer
Wood Elves
Clever Impersonator
Entomber Exarch
Falkenrath Noble
Glen Elendra Archmage
Solemn Simulacrum
Wickerbough Elder
Wonder
Corpse Connoisseur
Havengul Lich
Mulldrifter
Phenax, God of Deception
Prophet of Kruphix
Shriekmaw
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Brutalizer Exarch
Harvester of Souls
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Rune-Scarred Demon
Dryad Arbor

Tortured Existence
Oversold Cemetery
Survival of the Fittest
Attrition
Pernicious Deed

Entomb
Vampiric Tutor
Intuition

Demonic Tutor
Diabolic Intent
Gaea's Blessing
Life from the Loam
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Toxic Deluge
Damnation
Living Death

Barren Moor
Bayou
Bazaar of Baghdad
Bojuka Bog
Breeding Pool
Command Tower
Drowned Catacombs
Dust Bowl
6 Forest
Hinterland Harbor
3 Island
Lonely Sandbar
Misty Rainforest
Opulent Palace
Overgrown Tomb
Polluted Delta
5 Swamp
Tranquil Thicket
Tropical Island
Underground Sea
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Verdant Catacombs
Volrath's Stronghold
Watery Grave
Woodland Cemetery

Current as of 22-ix-2015.

The idea with this deck is to get Sidisi into play and then trigger her at every opportunity to make zombies. You can then win either by beating down or by milling other people out, since almost all of your self-mill effects can be used on others.

Despite ostensibly being a graveyard deck, Sidisi doesn't actually care about the size of your graveyard, only about the things going into it. Consequently, you can dodge some of the common anti-graveyard hate cards with things like Gaea's Blessing and Loaming Shaman. Most of the cards in this deck that interact with the graveyard are one-shot effects for exactly this reason; since it's a liability to keep a huge graveyard, cards like Genesis and Oversold Cemetery get somewhat weaker.

This is probably a pretty solid 75% list right now. It's powerful without feeling unfair, mostly due to being a slower deck. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


Last edited by Aggro_zombies on 2015-Sep-22 7:23 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-27 11:09 am 
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Joined: 2014-Nov-26 1:40 pm
Age: Wyvern
Location: Idyllwild, CA
If you're looking to millBasalt Monolith with Mesmeric Orb is an infinite mill on yourself.

Also if its so graveyard heavy, why no Consuming Aberration?

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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-28 8:17 am 
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Joined: 2013-Apr-09 11:11 am
Age: Drake
Location: San Diego
If your goal is to put creatures into the graveyard but not keep things there then you could use the eldrazi titans to allow you to shuffle your graveyard back and get a zombie while you're at it.

I like Dakmor Salvage for dredge decks since it gives you another dredge option without really taking up a spot in your deck. It can also help hit a land drop if you mill and and need one badly.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-28 6:42 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
I love it. It makes more sense than Damia, and now the commander is tied to the deck thematically. Are you good in the draw department now that D. is gone? I'd expect a Skullclamp in there.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-28 7:04 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I have been kicking around the idea of a BUG deck for a while, I have both Damia and a Sidisi, but I am torn between the two. I am not really crazy about self-mill except that it does make my Genesis/Oversold Cemetery etc better.

I want to "go big" fast and do crazy things so I am kind of leaning towards Damia as she can refill my hand... Thoughts?

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-29 8:29 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
@Inkeyes: Damia costs seven mana and has four toughness. She's pretty fragile and not tremendously recast-able. The ability is quite powerful but it's also not something you can really rely on triggering unless your group or your deck is very bad.

Sidisi is powerful but a very different deck from Damia. I'm still modifying the Damia shell I started with to better accommodate Sidisi.

@Shabbaman: I haven't yet felt like I was short on draw, but my hand does tend to run low. I'm running some otherwise questionable cards, like Sultai Soothsayer, in order to help with that, but I may try adding some more creatures that draw cards. There's actually not a ton of things that outright die to Clamp in the current list.

@Wolfram: Titans are fine but I don't think I need them. They have sort of the same problem Prophet of Kruphix does, which is that they're fine if you keep them to yourself but they tend to be a disaster if your opponent clones or Briberies or steals them. I also don't want to shuffle my graveyard in super often, just occasionally.

Dakmor Salvage is probably okay, but the actual Dredge cards get worse when you only have one draw per turn (on average). Salvage itself does nothing since I don't have Worm Harvest in the list anymore.

@Komrade: Monolith is okay, but it doesn't really do much when I don't have Orb - which is often, because people around here have learned to kill that card with extreme prejudice. I also want to avoid non-creatures if I can help it, so I'd be looking at Seeker of Skybreak or Aphetto Alchemist. Monolith has the benefit of having "haste," but the others make a zombie when milled and Alchemist can untap Pod or give a creature vigilance. It's a pity Kiora's Follower can't target itself.

Consuming Aberration is mostly just big and dumb. It doesn't mill me and doesn't do all that much if I'm not on the mill-them plan.

In General: I'm currently considering the following cards for a slot (in no particular order):

Puppeteer Clique
Dosan the Falling Leaf
Duskmantle Guildmage
Archaeomancer
Yavimaya Hollow

With fewer actual dredge cards in the deck, Drowned Rusalka is on the chopping block. Past that, I'm not sure.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-29 10:09 am 
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Joined: 2013-Apr-09 11:11 am
Age: Drake
Location: San Diego
Fact or Fiction and Sphinx of Uthuun are great card draw with zombie making potential.

Also, have you tried Deadbridge Chant its fantastic if you can keep your graveyard small and controlled.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Nov-29 11:31 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Sphinx would be better because I prefer creatures to non-creatures in this deck. I actually don't want to add any more non-creatures than I currently have, so any spell will have to replace a spell already in the deck.

So...I'm not sure what Chant would replace. It seems reasonably powerful, though my graveyard tends to grow explosively so its power will drop off quickly. Also, six mana for that effect is a bit more than I'd want to pay.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-03 10:39 am 
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Joined: 2014-May-09 5:41 pm
Age: Wyvern
You should give Kessig Cagebreakers a try, the card is amazing, even with only 5 or 6 creature on the graveyard it does work, lategame is just a bomb.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest is cheap card draw and you can replace the draw with more dredge triggers.
With Greater Good you can sac a creature to dredge or draw and then discard the dredge spells.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-07 3:00 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
I also switched my dredge build over to Sidisi this fall... I'm thinking of adding in some zombie tribal effects (especially Diregraf Captain and Vengeful Dead), 'cause my groups been on a bit of a Fog kick lately.

I decided I don't like Deadbridge Chant in this deck at all; the return-at-random bit is annoying to resolve when you've got 30 cards in the 'yard.

Inkeyes22 wrote:
I have been kicking around the idea of a BUG deck for a while, I have both Damia and a Sidisi, but I am torn between the two. I am not really crazy about self-mill except that it does make my Genesis/Oversold Cemetery etc better.

I want to "go big" fast and do crazy things so I am kind of leaning towards Damia as she can refill my hand... Thoughts?


If you want to play big and fast, you're probably looking at a significantly different deck... you probably want heavier hitting draw/discard spells like Windfall or Whispering Madness.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-07 9:18 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Yeah, Sheldon shouldn't be proclaiming every week that Fog is so great. It's Winding Canyon all over again, it's SCG pushing the price of Fog.

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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-08 6:56 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Toumai wrote:
You should give Kessig Cagebreakers a try, the card is amazing, even with only 5 or 6 creature on the graveyard it does work, lategame is just a bomb.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest is cheap card draw and you can replace the draw with more dredge triggers.
With Greater Good you can sac a creature to dredge or draw and then discard the dredge spells.

I tried Cagebreakers in an early iteration of this deck and it was just okay. A five mana 3/4 with no built-in evasion, haste, or protection is pretty easy to contest.

I generally don't like Edric when he's not my general. Giving my opponents extra cards is never a good idea, and I'm not really hurting for draw all that much.

Greater Good would be better if this deck ran more than one actual dredge card. It's also not a creature, which means it has stiff competition for space.

Kemev wrote:
I also switched my dredge build over to Sidisi this fall... I'm thinking of adding in some zombie tribal effects (especially Diregraf Captain and Vengeful Dead), 'cause my groups been on a bit of a Fog kick lately.

I've been thinking about Vengeful Dead in here, but I don't know that I want it any more than my current four-drop lineup.

Kemev wrote:
I decided I don't like Deadbridge Chant in this deck at all; the return-at-random bit is annoying to resolve when you've got 30 cards in the 'yard.

This was my line of thought on the card as well.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-14 11:06 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Bump for updates.

The most up-to-date list will usually be here, but the OP is current for this update as well.

DTK allows the deck to pick up another tutor effect in Dead Sidisi, which is always welcome. Dead Sidisi is a pretty clear upgrade on Ghoulcaller Gisa, who was never quite as good as I'd wanted her to be, mostly because she has to tap to use her ability. Other than that, there's a few minor improvements here or there; recursive bodies like Gravecrawler and Reassembling Skeleton have quickly proved themselves to be some of the best creatures in the deck, while Kira protects my creatures from removal and Blood Artist protects my life total.

As people upthread predicted, I've found myself wanting more draw as time goes on. Fact or Fiction seems like a good starting point since binning a pile with creatures will trigger Alive Sidisi. It's also relatively cheap mana-wise and digs deeply. Similarly, Forbidden Alchemy might be nice, but it just replaces itself on the first cast, so perhaps not? One thing worth noting is that I currently have 45 creatures in the deck (almost half the list!), so cutting one or two for spells shouldn't hurt the math on milling guys too much.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-14 1:03 pm 

Joined: 2014-Sep-13 7:28 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Aggro_zombies wrote:
Forbidden Alchemy might be nice, but it just replaces itself on the first cast, so perhaps not?


But the thing about is that it doesn't just replace itself. You get 1.) your choice of the top four cards, where a straight draw of 4 is better but pitching dead cards is still nice 2.) potential Sidisi triggers 3.) graveyard fixing such increased counts towards Living Death or some small dorky hijinks like Gravecrawler/Wonder/Soul of Innistrad.

As for cards, Consuming Aberration is a valid backup plan, especially with Phenax. Being chump blockable is okay, as it should be able to effectively kill anything it comes across. But don't forget Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. Jarad and Lord of Extinction is the original boomtube! I mean, i'm not criticizing Nighthowler since i do understand it has two bodies sometimes, but it just a card as i see 'big and stupid', which is what you said of Aberration.

So, i guess a lot more simply put TL:DR - with Jarad and Phenax already in the deck, Consuming Aberration is a very valid alt win con in two ways.

Also, even though you not on the "zombies tribal", maybe at least one effective zombie lord could make an appearance?
- Havengul Runebinder can eat something you no longer care for and could probably be good at least for 2 bodies and 11-ish power?
- Cemetery Reaper is so much slower than Scavenging Ooze but also will neuter opponent's yards and put down maybe 11 power in a game as well.
- Death Baron to put some fangs onto Sidisi's creations.
- And then depending on how slow you can afford to be, Stitcher Geralf does mill you for 3, triggers Sidisi, and then you can eat something nasty and put another body down.


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 Post subject: Re: Commander Dredge 2: Electric Boogaloo
AgePosted: 2015-Mar-22 5:35 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
I'm getting aggravated with Soul of Innistrad... it seems like it should be really good (especially with Coffers + Urborg), but I can't seem to get it to line up.

I've also started playing with Tombstone Stairwell; I'm not sure if it's good, but it's lotsa fun, and I'm hoping I can get it linked up with a Vengeful Dead for extra hilarity.

The other fun tech I've been amusing myself with is Wood Sage + Golgari Thug.

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