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 Post subject: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-29 4:03 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
I'm putting together a Grenzo+Relentless Rats deck and I wanted to throw it out there to see if there is anything I've overlooked. The metagame is moderately powerful (everybody in the group has decks that range from pretty good to fairly dirty), but generally not super fast (some Sol Rings, few Grim Monoliths, no Mana Crypts to give you an idea). Easy-button combos are frowned upon, so no Mana Echoes, and I made the conscious decision to leave Thrumming Stone out as well.

The general plan is to make Grenzo t2, Rat t3, then start seeing what he can dig up in the back as far as rats go. I want to be pretty proactive in smashing faces here, so all of the board control is geared toward potentially leaving my rats alive.

I'm definitely weak vs. artifacts and enchantments, though it is a bit tough to build around that given the color restriction. Any suggestions on things you might modify? Card availability is generally not an issue (barring stuff like Chains of Mephistopheles or The Abyss), I'd generally like to keep red spells to a single {R} unless they're exceptionally good, and I want to stay away from combo for this one.

Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
40 Relentless Rats

Grenzo Shenanigans
Soldevi Digger
Reito Lantern
Heartstone
Teferi's Puzzle Box

Rat Shenanigans
Patriarch's Bidding
Coat of Arms

Generically Good
Caged Sun
Fervor

Card Advantage
Oversold Cemetery
Jar of Eyeballs
Read the Bones
Ambition's Cost

Board Wipes
Toxic Deluge
Bane of the Living
Mutilate
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Hellfire
Living Death
Flowstone Slide
Rain of Daggers

Lands (39)
Swarmyard
Cabal Coffers
Mutavault
Opal Palace
Urborg
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
other utility lands I happen to have lying around
a bunch that just make mana (leaning heavily toward black over red)


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-29 6:56 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Oh man, this could be fun. Although rats are maybe less exciting that the shadowborn apostle plan. I did Grenzo with those, and it turned out to be a lot more powerful, fun, and interesting than I thought it might be. You should check out my list, here : http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17101

But, there's some nice synergy dudes with 2-power that I'd recommend:

balthor the defiled
solemn simulacrum
stronghold assassin
anger
gray merchant of asphodel

some other valuable cards that worked ok:

crystal ball
all is dust
purphoros, god of the forge
dark prophecy

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-29 7:40 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Balthor and Dark Prophecy both look pretty saucy for what I'm trying to do here. I've played a Sygg, River Cutthroat-led Relentless Rats deck previously, and having things that help you recover from sweepers is really clutch.


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-29 8:06 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Hmm, more suggestions : disciple of bolas is a lot better for your deck than it is for mine... your rats could be really huge, my apostles are always 1/1.

you want nykthos, shrine to nyx and crypt of agadeem. Crypt is just insane after a board wipe. You're running a lot more black creatures than most decks and can get them into play easily. Then the wipe happens, and you suddenly get 15+ mana from it. Finding ways of getting huge mana and then pumping it into grenzo is an important strategy in grenzo. (I'm also using black market, but that can be harder to get to work right, edit: and draws an absurd amount of hate).

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-29 8:16 am 
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Joined: 2014-Sep-30 6:38 am
Age: Elder Dragon
You may want to add some more rat cards to the deck, like ogre slumlord, to spice things up. With a deck like this with lots of creatures and graveyard shenanigans, some good cards to keep around would be blood artist and the like. Also Swarmyard.

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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-04 1:38 am 
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Joined: 2014-May-09 5:41 pm
Age: Wyvern
Marrow-Gnawer still works with grenzo's ability and gives your rats evation.
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni is just fun to ninjitzu a relentless rat and play this guy, does not work well with grenzo but it fitz the rat theme.
Pack Rat can make a small army by itself and can get preatty big.
Ogre Slumlord is a nice rat lord.


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-04 3:42 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
I've played a few games with this now, and one thing that is apparent is that I need evasion. Marrow-Gnawer is definitely going in as soon as I get one. I've definitely noticed the deck is more mana-hungry than I expected at first, but I don't want to load up with a bunch of ramp since the plan is to usually go t2 Grenzo, t3 rat. I may try to find room for Gilded Lotus because I can play that and immediately use it for a Rat. Ogre Slumlord is probably worth a slot as a type of pseudoevasion. When DSE mentioned it a while back, I thought instead of Ratcatcher (who isn't quite worth his mana cost in this deck).

There are a few changes that have already been made, so here is the current list with some notes.

Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
40 Relentless Rats

Grenzo Shenanigans - This has slimmed down because Reito Lantern just wasn't worth the mana involved. It does leave me a light on GY hate, but my group tends not to have any degenerate GY decks.

Heartstone

Natural Rat Enhancement

Fervor - I'm considering Mass Hysteria here once my group realizes that this deck is less powerful than my usual fare.
Balthor the Defiled
Patriarch's Bidding
Coat of Arms - This slot is turning into Marrow-Gnawer. Between token decks and tribal decks in my metagame, it keeps backfiring or getting stuck in my hand.

Board Wipes

Toxic Deluge
Mutilate - Has been underperforming. My Swamp count is too low for it to be a total sweeper, and I haven't been able to keep my rats the biggest thing on the board to break its symmetry.
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Bane of the Living - Super mana hungry. I'm pretty sure this is getting cut.
Phyrexian Purge - The life adds up fast, so this might be where I find my Slumlord slot.
Hellfire
Rain of Daggers
Living Death

Card Advantage/Selection

Oversold Cemetery
Jar of Eyeballs
Ambition's Cost
Read the Bones
Disciple of Bolas
Dark Prophecy
Expedition Map - This went in after a couple of nutty games involving Nykthos, and can also fetch Swarmyard, Coffers, or Urborg.

Lands (39) - The count is probably going up here by at least one. Temple of the False God is going in, and I'm on the fence about Myriad Landscape because I don't ever want to play it until t4, and it takes a rat's worth of mana to activate. (* marks the ones that are effectively swamps for Mutilate)

Swarmyard
Crypt of Agadeem
Mutavault
Cabal Coffers
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth*
Bojuka Bog
Blood Crypt*
Tainted Peak
Blackcleave Cliffs
Dragonskull Summit
Sulfurous Springs
Graven Cairns
Bloodstained Mire*
Verdant Catacombs*
Polluted Delta*
Marsh Flats*
Rocky Tar Pit*
Evolving Wilds*
Terramorphic Expanse*
Rakdos Carnarium
Akoum Refuge
Forgotten Cave
2 Mountain
14 Swamp


Last edited by JJackson on 2014-Dec-10 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-04 5:31 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
I like this, but I don't have this many Relentless Rats or Shadowborn Apostles. Demon tribal is cool (and flexible), but RR gives so much raw power... I'd still push the rat tribal thing a bit though.

As for evasion, I'd look at Filth, Cover of Darkness or Dauthi Embrace.

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"Our words are backed with OBLIVION STONE!"


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-05 5:21 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
I second Filth.

Shared Animosity for even bigger rats
Outmaneuver can get some rats through
Massive Raid/Mob Justice for added oomph with a lot of creatures

_________________
Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-07 5:02 pm 

Joined: 2010-Mar-10 1:31 pm
Age: Dragon
Should have Thrumming Stone to poop out more Rats

_________________
onlainari wrote:
trappedslider wrote:
EDIT: so if i somehow manged to get down to 1 life,played Repay in Kind followed by Decree of Annihilation then it owuld be bad evil juju?

That's not how magic works. You can't equate cards and situations linearly like that!


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-08 1:06 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Thrumming Stone and Mana Echoes have been intentionally excluded.


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-08 4:06 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
I applaud that. I kept Thrumming Stone out of my Phenax Rats deck. It's a training wheels card.

_________________
Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-08 9:20 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jan-25 4:50 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Won't the stars on the rats get too big if you have too many rats in play? Just learned that the stars aren't zero anymore.

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Kuro, Pitlord (Life gain)
Derevi (Manlands)
Marchesa (Modular)
Retired:
Krenko, Mob Boss (Goblins)
Zedruu the Christmas Goat (group hug)
Ramses Overdark (Assassin Deck)


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-08 11:38 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
What stars? Relentless Rats are 2/2s

_________________
Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Honest Grenzo's Rat Emporium
AgePosted: 2014-Dec-09 1:21 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Yep. The rats are 2/2 everywhere but in play.


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