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 Post subject: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-21 3:05 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Deckbuilding Rule: if a non-land card has its converted mana cost equal to 1, then its mana cost must include {R}. If a non-land card has converted mana cost greater than 1, then its mana cost must include {R}{R}. If a non-land card has converted mana cost equal to zero, then it must have a Red indicator.

Deck Goal: while likely difficult given the constraints, this deck is dedicated to the FIRE. Red Deck Wins style, instead of combo or land destruction or something.

I really like following obscure rules and making it a challenge to produce at least a decent deck. This one is still definitely in testing. I still play in casual settings, so I'm not looking to create a deck to win "tournaments."
So why Marton? Well, the idea originated from the Iron Chef competition focused on Marton. It just so happens Marton is the same cost, albeit in Red, as Polukranos. I considered other legendary creatures, but Marton seemed pretty cool for the deck.

See Red Devotion in this thread, page 2.

So why not Purphoros, God of the Forge? It follows the devotion idea, right? It does...but I don't own one. Also, I just don't like the god cards so I'm not including it here.

And goblins...there's some goblins in here, but why not more? Well, Goblins is already a deck, and they're a dime a dozen. I could make one, but it wouldn't feel right or remotely unique.


Commander:
1. Marton Stromgald

Creatures: (38)
2. Archetype of Aggression
3. Ash Zealot
4. Avaricious Dragon
5. Blood Knight
6. Cyclops Gladiator
7. Cyclops of Eternal Fury
8. Dragon Whisperer
9. Dualcaster Mage
10. Ember Swallower
11. Erdwal Ripper
12. Falkenrath Marauders
13. Feldon of the Third Path
14. Flamewake Phoenix
15. Gorilla Shaman
16. Hateflayer
17. Hellrider
18. Hostility
19. Hound of Griselbrand
20. Kargan Dragonlord
21. Legion Loyalist
22. Markov Blademaster
23. Magmatic Force
24. Mindsparker
25. Molten Primordial
26. Obsidian Fireheart
27. Ogre Battledriver
28. Prophetic Flamespeaker
29. Siege-Gang Commander
30. Skitter of Lizards
31. Slith Firewalker
32. Spikeshot Elder
33. Stigma Lasher
34. Stonewright
35. Stromkirk Noble
36. Thunderblust
37. Torchling
38. Tyrant of Discord
39. Urabrask the Hidden
40. Vexing Devil
41. Warren Instigator

Burn: (9)
42. Comet Storm
43. Detonate
44. Five-Alarm Fire
45. Mana Clash
46. Molten Disaster
47. Red Sun's Zenith
48. Reforge the Soul
49. Runeflare Trap

Support: (13)
50. Firecat Blitz
51. Fork
52. Fury of the Horde
53. Gamble
54. Hordeling Outburst
55. Leyline of Punishment
56. Mana Geyser
57. Pact of the Titan
58. Reiterate
59. Sulfuric Vortex
60. Tempt with Vengeance
61. Wheel of Fate

Lands: (39)
62. Ancient Tomb
63. Boseiju, Who Shelters All
64. Forgotten Cave
65. Haunted Fengraf
66. Maze of Ith
67-96. Mountain
97. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
98. Thespian's Stage
99. Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
100. Zoetic Caver

There's a lot of cards here I think I'd like to switch out for something else. Harness by Force doesn't seem very good, but maybe I don't have enough faith in paying as much as I'd need to in order to steal a couple creatures. Warren Instigator isn't very good here either with so few targets to cheat into play; however, I have been mostly using the card for its natural double strike and cheap mana cost. Glacial Chasm is another test card I'm trying to work in combination with cards like Molten Disaster and saving me a turn or two longer than I should normally be able to. If it doesn't work out, I'll replace it. Blood Knight is weak, but I wanted another two-cost creature. Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt, and Mana Clash are a little weak on the burn, so I'll probably be replacing them with other creatures once I decide which are the best ones to include.

Ignition Team might seem like a weird choice, but I've now played the card in two different decks. Just like Mana Geyser can lead to a blowout, this card can suddenly appear on the field with 20+ counters. A little haste, and suddenly I rock the boat.

Zo-Zu the Punisher is really good, and I wish I had a copy of it right now. Archetype of Aggression definitely needs to be in here, I just don't have an extra copy running around at the moment. Hateflayer, Obsidian Fireheart, Thunderblust, War Elemental, Gratuitous Violence, Beacon of Destruction, Pulse of the Forge, Firecat Blitz, Tempt with Vengeance, and...crap, I lost my train of thought. Something something something burn fire win!

Oh, yeah, those other ones are cards I don't currently own (or are in another deck) and could really go into here.

If you have any suggestions, I would be glad to hear them. There's a lot going on here, but the goal is pretty clear. Attack. Burn. Win.

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Last edited by Segrus on 2015-Aug-18 3:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-21 3:29 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
No Krenko? He seems really good with Marton...


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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-21 3:39 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Joz wrote:
No Krenko? He seems really good with Marton...

Well, the problem with Krenko--which is the same problem with running more Goblins in general--is that they work fairly well together. If I put too many Goblins into this deck, then this is just another Goblin deck. I think you'll agree with me that would be pretty boring (I used to have a Krenko deck, so I'm very familiar with EDH Goblin Tribal).

To curb this, I'm precluding the use of some Goblins in an effort to prevent this very thing. Krenko, while probably fairly good with Marton, is kind of on an unspoken 'do not include' list. It also doesn't help that Krenko comes out the same turn Marton would.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-21 3:53 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Segrus wrote:
Joz wrote:
No Krenko? He seems really good with Marton...

Well, the problem with Krenko--which is the same problem with running more Goblins in general--is that they work fairly well together. If I put too many Goblins into this deck, then this is just another Goblin deck. I think you'll agree with me that would be pretty boring (I used to have a Krenko deck, so I'm very familiar with EDH Goblin Tribal).

To curb this, I'm precluding the use of some Goblins in an effort to prevent this very thing. Krenko, while probably fairly good with Marton, is kind of on an unspoken 'do not include' list. It also doesn't help that Krenko comes out the same turn Marton would.



Krenko is actually good by himself, without other goblins. You've already got at least 6 4-drops and I just counted the creatures only....so...if they come out the turn Marton would...what's the argument there?


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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-21 10:42 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Joz wrote:
Krenko is actually good by himself, without other goblins. You've already got at least 6 4-drops and I just counted the creatures only....so...if they come out the turn Marton would...what's the argument there?

My concern lies in how long it takes to make Krenko really come online without other Goblins. If I drop him turn four, I'll likely not have haste at this point. Turn five, I'll tap him and make one creature. Turn six I finally get to attack with said creature. Turn seven is when I finally am able to attack equal to or greater than Krenko's power.

That's kinda the worst case scenario, assuming Krenko even stays on the board that long. Hellrider and Keldon Champion deal damage the first turn they come out. Ember Swallower, Cyclops Gladiator, Ogre Battledriver, and Hound of Griselbrand all deal decent damage the turn after they come out in addition to doing other things and/or having great static abilities. Worst case scenario barring removal they are trouncing someone turn 4 or turn 5, two turns earlier than Krenko.

If I can guarantee I'll have more Goblins out before Krenko touches the battlefield, then his usefulness skyrockets; however, to do that, I'd have to start turning this deck into a Goblin deck.

As a side note, Chancellor of the Forge could probably use a spot. Since Chancellor doesn't require other Goblins to make Goblin tokens, it could be fairly useful (especially since the tokens have haste).

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-26 3:50 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So the only reason for "red devotion" is to limit card selection?

I am not opposed to this, just wanted to make sure and Nykkie for X damage spells?

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With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-29 12:24 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Inkeyes22 wrote:
So the only reason for "red devotion" is to limit card selection?

I am not opposed to this, just wanted to make sure and Nykkie for X damage spells?

Yes...but definitely no. The point for Red Devotion is for the challenge of making a deck this way, although it started with making a Green devotion deck (see my other devotion deck, Mono Green Polukranos). With the Polukranos deck, it started while I was looking around at all of the Green cards I own. I had built a Patron of the Orochi deck, but wasn't satisfied with it since it played like a big pile of good stuff. I tried to think of anything--any other mono-Green strategy--and for days I couldn't think of anything satisfactory. A few hundred various Green cards sat spread across my desk while I sat void of any imagination from a distance.

After a while, I tried to recall what I even liked about the mono-Green deck I had. Well, first thing that came to mind was trying to abuse Essence of the Wild. Very soon, I realized how powerful it would be to combine Essence with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Literally from that very thought spawned the idea of doing the deck with Polukranos. I decided to build a deck like this one because the Iron Chef competition inspired the building.

.......

...in any case, Detonate, Comet Storm, Molten Disaster, and Red Sun's Zenith are all X spells on this list. Putting too many of them is problematic since I'll be opening myself up even more to counter spells and other blowouts.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-29 7:37 am 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Skitter of lizards seems really weak...

And with regard to your burn spells, IMX, Hammer of Bogardan is just way too slow.

I'd rather run Arc Blade instead of Chain Lightning or aforementioned Hammer.

My meta contains hordes of tokens, so I'd lean towards Chain reaction, and Homing Lightning.


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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-29 7:42 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
If cutting Skitter and considering running Arc Blade, I would definitely recommend Rift Elemental. In fact, I would say that Arc Blade is completely unplayable without Rift Elemental...

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-29 8:14 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
A number of the one and two drop spots are unfortunately on the weaker side. I just didn't want to give up too many of those spots so I would have greater chances of doing something on those turns.

I've thought about Arc Blade, it just seemed like too little damage spread across lots of turns. With Rift Elemental it gets a lot better, but each individually aren't really great at all. I would say there's a way to make Rift Elemental slightly better by running more suspend cards, but there really aren't that many more I can play and are decent.

Genju of the Spires is another card I considered in the one-drop spot. I'm still iffy on whether it would be good or not: I don't know if I want to encourage people to destroy my lands. Dragonmaster Outcast is another possibility, if I owned one of them.

Chain Reaction and Homing Lightning are both cards I considered, but Chain Reaction quickly died. My problem is I have a lot less recovery available than other players do, so killing my own creatures seemed bad as a general rule since I absolutely need all of them to count. Homing Lightning would have gone in, but Molten Disaster seems too good to ignore. There's a lot of opportunity to end a game quickly by 'ramping' into it and killing off multiple opponents. I know this seems contradictory since I'm dismissing Chain Reaction (and they both do similar things), but the damage to players is a vital difference.

I suppose my main problem with getting rid of a recurrable burn spell is that there's just so few of them to go around.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-29 8:56 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
For Suspend cards, Detritivore, Greater Gargadon, Shivan Meteor, and Wheel of Fate are all reasonable. Not great, but reasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-29 10:36 am 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
crokaycete wrote:
For Suspend cards, Detritivore, Greater Gargadon, Shivan Meteor, and Wheel of Fate are all reasonable. Not great, but reasonable.

If only Greater Gargadon's cost didn't prohibit me from running it. See the deckbuilding rule at the top of the page for reference.

I'm already running Wheel of Fate since I'm a little stuck on card draw. I suppose I could start running Grim Lavamancer and more draw/discard-type draw spells, but I've shied away from it up until this point.

In any case...you're right, the other two are mediocre. I don't see Detrivore helping me out too much, but I suppose I could be wrong. There's certainly better removal than Shivan Meteor. I guess the question is this: do I open more spots for mediocre cards in order to run a combination of cards that are only good in combination? I'm honestly not convinced either way--I know the current deck is a little 'meh?,' but this seems like a lateral step rather than a step forward.

I really need Firecat Blitz and Tempt With Vengeance.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-30 6:00 pm 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
More for consideration
Grim Lavamancer
Beetleback Chief
Torchling
Capricious Efreet
Rustmouth Ogre

Increasing Vengeance
Wild Ricochet
Incendiary Command

Koth of the Hammer

And with your lack of artifacts, shatterstorm, as well as other removal Icefall, or Into the core


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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-30 11:49 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
green slime wrote:
More for consideration
Grim Lavamancer--I'm concerned that his effect isn't enough while also being a 1/1 body. I'm also concerned about having to tap him down to get the effect, because there will be times I'll want to do both attacking and use the effect pre-combat.
Beetleback Chief--I don't know that I want to keep adding more cards to my 4-CMC slot due to needing to land Marton on that turn. That combined with the rest of the competition for that spot--Cyclops Gladiator, Ember Swallower, Hellrider, Hound of Griselbrand, and Ogre Battledriver--I'm not seeing that he's particularly better.
Torchling--This might be an interesting choice instead of Fire Servant. I haven't seen the Servant do me much good, unfortunately.
Capricious Efreet--Tyrant of Discord does this a lot better, in my opinion. I could be wrong though.
Rustmouth Ogre--I don't think the mana cost is worth the effect in this case.

Increasing Vengeance--Fork, Reverberate, and Reiterate are already on the list, so I'm trying to see the benefit for adding another of these effects.
Wild Ricochet--This is a really solid card, but the lower mana cost of the above three is why they made the cut and this didn't.
Incendiary Command--I'm really stuck on whether I really want the various choices on this card. They're sorta good...kinda...I kinda wish the last ability was a Windfall effect, but there's a fairly good reason why it isn't.

Koth of the Hammer--I'm seeing about trying to find one of the new Sarkhans to put here. Unfortunately, I don't really own an extra Koth so I'm going to have to buy one or the other.

And with your lack of artifacts, shatterstorm, as well as other removal Icefall, or Into the core--I had all of these pulled out at one time or another when I was building this deck. I am a little light on artifact removal, but I'm still considering what to take out.

See above for comments. Thanks for the suggestions.

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 Post subject: Re: Solid Red Devotion: Marton Stromgald
AgePosted: 2014-Oct-01 5:52 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
I'm assuming I'm experiencing temporary blindness, but, uh, Fanatic of Mogis?

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