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 Post subject: Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
AgePosted: 2014-Apr-23 12:31 pm 

Joined: 2014-Apr-23 12:23 pm
Age: Hatchling
Lazav is one of my favorite commanders on paper for his versatility and potential shenanigans, I just can't seem to find a really strong build for him. Originally I went the Mill route, but that had too many problems. The Mill wasn't strong enough on its own to work as a win condition, but it got me too little profit for the effort apart from enabling Lazav. The current idea is playing the enemy's stuff from the library and the graveyard and profiting again when they kill it because Lazav now transforms into it. However, it just doesn't seem to do enough. There's few powerful synergies in there, without haste and fast mana it's not very quick and it often gets stomped by green-based goodstuff decks or other decks that generate extreme value. I was hoping perhaps some of you had some ideas for a better Lazav deck or could help me spot this build's weaknesses :)


Commander
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind

Playing the enemy library
Mindleech Mass
Sphinx Ambassador
Lord of the Void
Silent-Blade Oni
Thada Adel, Acquisitor
Praetor's Grasp
Knowledge Exploitation
Acquire
Bribery
Nightveil Specter

Playing the enemy graveyard
Puppeteer Clique
Scion of Darkness
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Dimir Doppelganger
Beacon of Unrest
Sepulchral Primordial
Animate Dead
Necromancy
Rise of the Dark Realms
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Memory Plunder
Spelltwine
Diluvian Primordial
Chancellor of the Spires
Reanimate

Control
Plague Wind
Rain of Daggers
Nevinyrral's Disk
Overwhelming Forces
Dread Cacodemon
Pongify
Rapid Hybridization
Confiscate
Take Possession
Volition Reins
Blatant Thievery
Evil Twin
Murder
Rend Flesh

Draw and Tutor
Rhystic Study
Psychic Possession
Windfall
Whispering Madness
Mask of Riddles
Jace's Archivist
Fabricate
Demonic Tutor
Diabolic Tutor
Beseech the Queen
Phyrexian Arena
Tezzeret the Seeker

Mana
Darksteel Ingot
Sol Ring
Gilded Lotus
Solemn Simulacrum
Dimir Signet
Burnished Hart
Armillary Sphere
Chromatic Lantern

Other Utility
Lightning Greaves
Swiftfoot Boots
Whispersilk Cloak
Darksteel Armor

Land
Bojuka Bog
Command Tower
Rogue's Passage
Hall of the Bandit Lord
Temple of the False God
Seat of the Synod
Vault of Whispers
Dimir Guildgate
Wayfarer's Bauble
Temple of Deceit
Jwar Isle Refuge
Darkwater Catacombs
Dimir Aqueduct
Drowned Catacomb
Underground River
Tainted Isle
Ebon Stronghold
Island (10x)
Swamp (9x)


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 Post subject: Re: Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
AgePosted: 2014-May-18 7:27 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Your biggest problem currently is that your mana curve is jacked up. The deck's got fifteen 7-drops and only 35 lands, so you probably need to cut a few high-cost cards and add more lands.

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 Post subject: Re: Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
AgePosted: 2014-May-20 3:02 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
I have a Lazav deck that runs well. I too chose mill and went with high value mill spells, creatures and planeswalker and did the rest of the deck as a few counters, removal and clones, making it a mill/copycat deck. This means you copy their threats whilst getting mana to mill one target out, whilst general killing another with a huge Lazav. With Cabal Coffers and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Mind Grind = Win especillay if traumatize, tunnel vision, glimpse the unthinkable, consuming abberation or nemesis of reason have been involved in the game, don't underestimate the value that Nephalia Drownyard can generate too. And if people play eldrazi use sadistic sacrament and the like to remove them or just mill the fucker and clone it Lazav style and punish them (i did this with Kozilek once, IT WAS AWESOME)

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 Post subject: Re: Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-03 6:13 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
maiden77 wrote:
And if people play eldrazi use sadistic sacrament and the like to remove them or just mill the fucker and clone it Lazav style and punish them (i did this with Kozilek once, IT WAS AWESOME)

I got someone once because they failed to RTFC on my turn 3 Dimir Doppelganger and discarded Ulamog to a turn 4 ravnica karoo.
"I'll discard Ulamog and pass"
"Hold up. In response to the trigger, I'll activate the Doppelganger targeting Ulamog"
*reads DD*
*facepalms*
*scoops*

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-03 7:53 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
Sid the Chicken wrote:
maiden77 wrote:
And if people play eldrazi use sadistic sacrament and the like to remove them or just mill the fucker and clone it Lazav style and punish them (i did this with Kozilek once, IT WAS AWESOME)

I got someone once because they failed to RTFC on my turn 3 Dimir Doppelganger and discarded Ulamog to a turn 4 ravnica karoo.
"I'll discard Ulamog and pass"
"Hold up. In response to the trigger, I'll activate the Doppelganger targeting Ulamog"
*reads DD*
*facepalms*
*scoops*


Pro!

I still standby my build for the OP though, mine does copycat, mill and steal from library using my single bribery and it is almost always awesome. Fabricate and Expedition Map are in there for finding stuff I might want (like Cabal Coffers and Urborg, Altar of Dementia) along with tolaria west netting me lotsa mana, as well as vesuva and thespians stage giving more potential and adding to my copycat theme. Because clones are way cheaper than casting costs of WAY scarier stuff it usually keeps up well enough. Pack out the deck with a few counters, removal and wraths and a darksteel plate for Lazav and you have yourself a deck! Traumatize, Jace Memory Adept, Mind Grind and Nemesis of Reason are the main win cons, then clones, Lazav and just standard beats with stuff like Consuming aberration
(that can also win with mill). Last but not least, add Phenax, God of Deception as a sick way to profit from creatures you aren't attacking with or to mill out one person, whilst general or generally killing another. Its best to mill one opponent and smack the other, or get a huge mind grind, which I have done a few times, like mind grind for 14 etc, usually gets you there!

_________________
Uriel wrote:

I didn't failed nothing


My EDH Cube


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 Post subject: Re: Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-03 8:40 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Lazav + Darksteel Plate + Life's Finale = WIN!

The real challenge is not using Emperor Palpatine quotes at every opportunity while playing the deck.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-03 9:04 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Sep-19 1:30 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
One of the greatest cards I've found for my Lazav deck is Grinning Totem. Great flexibility to use their answers against them, grab a land, or just use it to grab something for Lazav/Doppleganger to copy.

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 Post subject: Re: Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-04 1:23 am 

Joined: 2012-Oct-09 1:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Lazav + Darksteel Plate + Life's Finale = WIN!

The real challenge is not using Emperor Palpatine quotes at every opportunity while playing the deck.


Likewise you can replace life's finale with Mind Grind in decent numbers to get silly!

I think the quote is to USE as many Emperor Palpatine quotes as possible! :twisted:

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Uriel wrote:

I didn't failed nothing


My EDH Cube


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