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 Post subject: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-11 12:45 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
After putting together my Pauper Gelectrode deck, I've been in the mood to play some Izzet. However, the Nivs are obvious and boring and I'm still not enthused by Melek, so I've turned to Nin to get my non-standard-deckbuilding on.

General: Nin, the Pain Artist

Goblin Bushwhacker
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Sledder
Goblin Soothsayer
Legion Loyalist
Mogg Raider
Skirk Prospector
Bloodmark Mentor
Goblin Lookout
Goblin Piledriver
Goblin Recruiter
Goblin Tinkerer
Goblin Wardriver
Mogg War Marshal
Warren Instigator
Arms Dealer
Goblin Chieftain
Goblin General
Goblin King
Goblin Matron
Goblin Sharpshooter
Goblin Warchief
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Beetleback Chief
Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
Krenko, Mob Boss
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Siege-Gang Commander
Goblin Marshal
Dragon Fodder
Krenko's Command
Goblin Offensive
Hordeling Outburst
Goblin Rally

Feldon of the Third Path
Imperial Recruiter
Phyrexian Metamorph
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Mulldrifter
Urabrask the Hidden

Basilisk Collar
Skullclamp
Swiftfoot Boots
Sword of Feast and Famine

Blustersquall
Cyclonic Rift
Mizzium Mortars
Teleportal
Goblin Bombardment
Aggravated Assault
Shared Animosity

Magus of the Moon
Blood Moon
Shattering Pulse
Chaos Warp

Solemn Simulacrum
Sol Ring
Armillary Sphere
Fire Diamond
Izzet Signet
Sky Diamond
Chromatic Lantern
Unstable Obelisk
5 Island
15 Mountain
Arid Mesa
Bloodstained Mire
Scalding Tarn
Wooded Foothills
Cascade Bluffs
Izzet Boilerworks
Steam Vents
Sulfur Falls
Temple of Epiphany
Volcanic Island
Cavern of Souls
Command Tower
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Reliquary Tower

Current as of 25 December 2015.

Pretty obvious. I didn't include Stuffy Doll because, while cute, it doesn't seem all that good here. I have no way to reset it once it dies and killing one player slowly does not seem all that difficult in an aggressive deck.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


Last edited by Aggro_zombies on 2015-Dec-25 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-11 12:50 pm 

Joined: 2014-Feb-24 4:07 pm
Age: Dragon
Aggro_zombies wrote:
Pretty obvious. I didn't include Stuffy Doll because, while cute, it doesn't seem all that good here. I have no way to reset it once it dies and killing one player slowly does not seem all that difficult in an aggressive deck.


But, dealing damage to an opponent and drawing cards seems really, really good. Especially if one of the 2 cards you need is your general.


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-11 12:57 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I have Mogg Maniac in there for that purpose. Stuffy Doll in particular seems bad because it's five mana for a 0/1 that can only burn out one player.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-11 1:09 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Aggro_zombies wrote:
I have Mogg Maniac in there for that purpose. Stuffy Doll in particular seems bad because it's five mana for a 0/1 that can only burn out one player.

:? I dunno man, I think the doll is good enough that I'd be looking to slot in Crystal Shard or something so you can re-aim it. You've got enough ETB gobbos + metamorph that It'd still be useful beyond just the doll, and having something you can hit with Nin without diminishing your board is handy. Heck, once you start getting big mana, you can do stuff like activate Krenko, get a bunch of gobbos, bounce him, re-cast him and tap him again (assuming one of your haste enablers is active).

Thinking of haste and tap effects... Thousand-Year Elixir?

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-11 1:14 pm 

Joined: 2014-Feb-24 4:07 pm
Age: Dragon
Sid the Chicken wrote:
Aggro_zombies wrote:
I have Mogg Maniac in there for that purpose. Stuffy Doll in particular seems bad because it's five mana for a 0/1 that can only burn out one player.

:? I dunno man, I think the doll is good enough that I'd be looking to slot in Crystal Shard or something so you can re-aim it. You've got enough ETB gobbos + metamorph that It'd still be useful beyond just the doll, and having something you can hit with Nin without diminishing your board is handy. Heck, once you start getting big mana, you can do stuff like activate Krenko, get a bunch of gobbos, bounce him, re-cast him and tap him again (assuming one of your haste enablers is active).

Thinking of haste and tap effects... Thousand-Year Elixir?


Yea.. a one shot, poke is fine... but you can keep poking the doll, and he just sits there and takes it... and if someone wants to waste some actual RFG effect on him... ok...

Besides, if you want to include Skirk Fire Marshal, he is big damage to someone, in addition to wiping most of the board. Toss in a Blasphemous Act and someone is almost dead.... and that's assuming you don't copy him with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker before you blow up the world. lol.


Last edited by Rasalom on 2014-Mar-11 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-11 1:18 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
Yeah, Stuffy Doll is super sweet in my Nin: Goblins deck. I run more clone effects so I can make more use of it but it's always fun to talk another player into attacking you with a fatty so you can block with a Stuffy Doll and damage someone else.

Thousand-Year is, also, *jazz hands* amaaaaaaaazing. Two Krenko activations?

I need a Skirk Fire Marhsall!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-11 2:06 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
My evaluation went something like this:

1) This is a Goblin tribal deck. Advantage: Maniac.

2) This is an aggro deck. Maniac costs two and attacks, Doll costs five and has zero power. Advantage: Maniac.

3) I'm not currently running any way to reset Stuffy Doll. The advantage is still to Stuffy Doll here, but it's much narrower since casting Stuffy Doll will make me an enemy and I won't have the flexibility to change Stuffy Doll's target later if the initial target stops being a relevant threat. Plus, actually burning someone out with Nin + Doll is a multi-turn process that requires me to spend a lot of mana per turn on activating Nin rather than casting more Goblins.

4) I'm running Purphoros. The need to hit my Doll multiple times is lessened by the fact that I can already do a ton of damage to people by just casting more men - and not just to one person, but the entire table. I don't exactly want to load up on this sort of effect since I want to be spending my mana casting guys and forcing them through every turn, and Stuffy Doll is a really bad guy outside of the specific context of Nin.

Where does Stuffy Doll shine? Against control players who make it hard to attack. Unfortunately, Nin - a two-mana 1/1 with no built-in protection - is very hard to keep alive against those same players. As an example, there's a Vish Kal player in my group who can very easily keep Nin off the table, at which point Stuffy Doll has a steep uphill battle versus a deck that usually has 60+ life. More haste effects may make Nin better against removal, but it's also worth remembering that Nin dying a bunch of times makes it harder to use her ability profitably on the turn you recast her. Paying six to get Nin into play doesn't really leave a lot of mana left over to feed into the X part of her ability (not to mention the UR in that activation). I am running more lands than normal, so I can make land drops late into the game, but I'm not convinced I want to run Stuffy Doll here over cards that do stuff.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-12 6:52 am 

Joined: 2014-Feb-24 4:07 pm
Age: Dragon
All valid points. But if Nin isn't the focus of your deck, why play R/U? Seems there are better color combos for goblins. And if you don't really care about your general past the colors.. then it doesn't really matter.


Last edited by Rasalom on 2014-Mar-12 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-12 8:52 am 
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Joined: 2012-Jan-06 10:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Seattle
RU turns out to be pretty good for Goblins. Blue has some fun ways to abuse tokens and she gives some awesome card draw.

_________________
Glissa, the Traitor -> Voltron
Mayael the Anima -> Flopping Fatties
Phenax, God of Deception -> Grave Rats
Starke of Rath -> Wrath of Starke: MRC

Proving Grounds: Drawmia-maro, Titania When Lands Attack, Tromokratis Read it Again, Kaalia's Klerics, Hordes of Tribes.


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Mar-12 12:27 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
scatteredsun wrote:
RU turns out to be pretty good for Goblins. Blue has some fun ways to abuse tokens and she gives some awesome card draw.

This, pretty much. My goal was to play an aggro deck in EDH. My theory was that aggro is not usually viable because the best colors for it are red and white, and those are also the two colors with the least card draw and thus the least ability to get back into the game after a sweeper or gas up in the midgame to kill a second or third player. Nin lets me sacrifice tokens to keep the pain train rolling.

Stuffy Doll is certainly great with Nin but is not so great within the Goblin aggro shell, so I decided to avoid it. Cards like Crystal Shard (though I would run Erratic Portal since it wouldn't require scarce blue mana) and Thousand-Year Elixir don't exactly work with the beatdown plan directly, but they help make tokens in greater volumes or at greater speeds, so I'm interested in trying them somewhere.

I probably should have been more clear about this in the OP, sorry about that.

_________________
kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-18 7:19 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I finally built this deck and managed to get some games in with it - or rather, with something close to the OP list (I'll post the full list in the morning). I won both games I played. Some notes:

- I couldn't find a Mogg Fanatic prior to sleeving up, but I actually didn't feel the need for it. The games I won came from aggro-ing people out with tons of Goblins.

- I initially thought 39 lands would be necessary to support Nin, but it might be too many. I'll try it again at 39 and then go down to 37 if I keep getting flooded.

- The token makers are the real heroes of this deck. Speaking of which, I need more M13 Goblin tokens...

With the haste and pump effects in the deck, it is not difficult to alpha strike people at 30+ life. Goblin Lookout is particularly good for this. Surprisingly, Legion Loyalist is also fantastic as both first strike and the anti-token clause are great in combination with pump effects.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-19 10:23 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Frenzied Goblin
Goblin Bushwhacker
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Sledder
Goblin Soothsayer
Legion Loyalist
Mogg Raider
Skirk Prospector
Bloodmark Mentor
Goblin Lookout
Goblin Piledriver
Goblin Recruiter
Goblin Shortcutter
Goblin Wardriver
Mogg War Marshal
Stingscourger
Warren Instigator
Arms Dealer
Goblin Chieftain
Goblin King
Goblin Matron
Goblin Sharpshooter
Goblin Warchief
Beetleback Chief
Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
Krenko, Mob Boss
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Siege-Gang Commander
Goblin Marshal
Dragon Fodder
Krenko's Command
Goblin Offensive
Goblin Warrens
Goblin Rally

Not Goblins:
Phyrexian Metamorph
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Solemn Simulacrum
Keranos, God of Storms
Urabrask the Hidden

Really Not Goblins:
Basilisk Collar
Skullclamp
Swiftfoot Boots
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Light and Shadow

Blustersquall
Cyclonic Rift
Teleportal
Dragonshift

Blood Moon
Ruination
Thoughts of Ruin
Boom // Bust

Gamble
Goblin Bombardment
Chaos Warp
Shared Animosity
Erratic Portal
Opposition

Sol Ring
Chromatic Lantern

Lands are mostly the same.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-26 6:55 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Most recent list in the OP.

The important update this time around is the reduction in land count in favor of artifact mana. The artifact ramp makes midgame Nin activations so much better, even though my creature curve is low enough to not really need it.

EDIT: This deck is barrels of fun to play and is very, very strong. I think I've finally found my EDH-viable aggro deck.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-27 1:12 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Chamber of Manipulation?

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Commander 2015 Set Review


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 Post subject: Re: Nin, Goblin Artist
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-30 1:29 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Still playing this deck, still enjoying it. A few things I've noticed, though:

1) Giving haste to Nin is absolutely huge. Most importantly, it allows her to dodge tuck effects since she can burn herself in response and head back to the command zone. Currently, only Boots and Urabrask give Nin haste, but I'd like to see if I can add Anger or something else along those lines.

2) For all its aggressive cards, this deck is deceptively good at playing the long game. Something like Mnemonic Nexus would probably help in this regard.

3) I could probably use some more card drawing that isn't Nin.

Opposition has not been all that remarkable. Typically it doesn't resolve or it triggers a Wrath amidst fears that I'll use it to lock down someone's manabase. The original intent behind the card was to use it as another Blustersquall, but I think the surprise factor is what makes that one good and Opposition lackluster. I also haven't been super impressed with Goblin Warrens, which is grossly inefficient even if it is a token maker. I might switch those to Anger and Nexus, respectively, and then try to find a way to wedge Mulldrifter in.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

Sidisi - Nin


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