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 Post subject: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2013-Feb-18 11:58 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
This is my take on Tariel, Reckoner of Souls.

As per the title, it is primarily a pillowfort list with a bit of a twist.

The twist is the use of cards like Maddening Imp, Basandra, Battle Seraph, and the mighty Avatar of Slaughter. These cards should hopefully force my opponents to attack and actively kill each other with little or no incentive to attack me.

I also use the cards Living Death and Twilight's Call to ensure the board remains interesting and full, which is semi-critical to my overall goal.

The finishers all take advantage of the varying life totals, while Vizkopa Guildmage combos with cards like Children of Korlis, Reverse the Sands etc.

Boros Fury-Shield and Reflect Damage are great rattlesnake cards/finishers.

As this is revision 5 of the list, picks are quite tight!

A few limitations worth knowing about:

1) I made a active effort to keep tutors low (3).

2) I tried to keep the more powerful and cheesier card picks like Exsanguinate, Necropotence and say Insurrection purposely out in an effort to keep the list a bit more fresh/friendly.

The list:
Quote:
Sorted by effect, broad type & CMC:

General:
1 Tariel, Reckoner of Souls

Force attack cards:
1 Goblin Diplomats
1 Maddening Imp
1 Fumiko the Lowblood
1 Basandra, Battle Seraph
1 Avatar of Slaughter

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
Not much to discuss here, all solid options at effectively forcing attacks.
Omissions:
Grand Melee

An fairly obvious pick, but two things prevented me from playing this card. Without something like Claws of Gix, I have no way to turn Grand Melee 'off' when strategically appropriate. Forcing my own creatures to attack and block can also quickly work against me.

Angel's Trumpet

The vigilance clause ruins this card for me. It favours people picking on the weakest player at the table (they'll never attack or trade into someone equal/stronger). I also want people tapping their creatures, as this ensures they likely take reciprocal attacks in return.

War's Toll

Doesn't necessarily force attacks and in many cases it encourages passive play. Therefore not really synergistic with the overall goal.


Pillowfort cards:
1 Maze of Ith
1 Soul Snare
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Tainted Sigil
1 No Mercy
1 Wound Reflection
1 Martyr’s Bond
1 Children of Korlis
1 Windborn Muse
1 Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
1 Archon of Justice
1 Dread
1 Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Ashen Rider

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
Maze of Ith - Decent rattle snake card that also has synergy with Tariel, Reckoner of Souls. I often try to copy Maze with Vesuva and/or Thespian's Stage in the mid to late game.

Soul Snare - Good rattle snake card, allows people to swing, just not at me! Sun Titan target.

Spear of Heliod - Also a good rattle snake card and the pump is very relevant to keeping my creatures combat worthy.

Tainted Sigil - Children of Korlis #2

No Mercy - Synergy with Children of Korlis.

Wound Reflection - Serves as a decent deterrent to attacking me (more profitable to attack others), while also speeding the game up and empowering my own attacks. Synergy with Repay in Kind & Reverse the Sands, Reflect Damage etc.

Children of Korlis - Synergy with Repay in Kind, Erebos, God of the Dead,No Mercy,Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker,Dread. Sun Titan/Adarkar Valkyrie target.

Windborn Muse - Could be Ghostly Prison. Creature type is more vulnerable, but more recoverable and something to attack with. Tough call.

Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker - Synergy with Children of Korlis

Archon of Justice - Spot removal w/ High Market, players don't like attacking into it.

Martyr's Bond - Rattlesnake and effective way with cards like Children of Korlis,Seal of Cleansing, and Tainted Sigil to kill enemy cards.

Dread - Synergy with Children of Korlis, Tainted Sigil

Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts - Synergy with Children of Korlis, Tainted Sigil, good beater/defender

Gisela, Blade of Goldnight - Serves as a decent deterrent to attacking me (more profitable to attack others), while also speeding the game up and empowering my own attacks

Ashen Rider - Reanimation target, rattlesnake, removal.


Finishers:
1 Vizkopa Guildmage
1 Boros Fury-Shield
1 Reflect Damage
1 Repay in Kind
1 Reverse the Sands

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
Vizkopa Guildmage - Provides Lifelink, kills with Reverse the Sands, Children of Korlis, Tainted Sigil etc.

Repay in Kind - Great equalizer & finisher. Children of Korlis make it one sided, and can often kill the table with Wound Reflection.

Reverse the Sands - Great equalizer in the advent that I am getting picked on and can kill players with Wound Reflection and Erebos, God of the Dead.

Boros Fury-Shield - For those times that opponents swing big.. Yes I'm looking at you Prosh/Kresh :evil:

Reflect Damage - For those times that opponents go big in general...


Recursion:
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Animate Dead
1 Necromancy
1 Auramancer
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Sun Titan

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
Phyrexian Reclamation- Sun Titan target. Deceptively powerful when you factor in cards like Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed.

Animate Dead - Straight up versatile, cheap reanimation. Sun Titan target.

Necromancy- Straight up versatile, cheap reanimation. Sun Titan target.

Auramancer - Good way to recur the few enchantments > CMC 3 in the list. I always get value out of it, and creates a good cycle with Phyrexian Reclamation.

Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed - Blacks Eternal Witness. Living Death + Xiao = anti-board wipe. Any card with black in it that might have a slightly better pick in other colours is likely chosen due to Xiaohou synergy.

Sun Titan - Recurs a tonne of cards in this list.


Draw:
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Mad Prophet
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Baleful Force

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
Phyrexian Arena - Staple.

Mad Prophet - Card selection, puts fatter creatures in yard for early reanimation.

Erebos, God of the Dead - Was Greed, but this is better. Prevention of lifegain is very relevant for this list.

Graveborn Muse - Body + Draw = space consideration (straight draw/alternate creature could be better, but would take 2 cards, instead of 1).

Bloodgift Demon - Body + Draw = space consideration (straight draw/alternate creature could be better, but would take 2 cards, instead of 1).

Harvester of Souls - Synergy with Xiaohou, Children of Korlis/Kami of False Hope. Body + Draw = space consideration. Hope to get value out of opponents creatures dying in battle. Shakey card choice (I think).

Baleful Force Body + Draw = space consideration (straight draw/alternate creature could be better, but would take 2 cards, instead of 1). Reanimation target.

Omissions:
Necropotence - While highly synergistic with other cards in the list (Sun Titan target, amazing with Children of Korlis), it is too boring/powerful.


Tutors:
1 Expedition Map
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Rune-Scarred Demon

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
Expedition Map - Maze of Ith/Vesuva/Thespian's Stage/High Market fetcher. Optimally speaking, Vampiric Tutor is probably straight up better. Top of library tutors bug me though.

Demonic Tutor - Staple.

Rune-Scarred Demon - Body + Tutor = space consideration (straight tutor/alternate creature could be better, but would take 2 cards, instead of 1).


Anti-sweepers:
1 Living Death
1 Twilight's Call

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
Living Death
Twilight's Call

As mentioned, these cards are used to keep boards full in order to make my force attack and pillow fort cards more relevant. Both pillow fort cards and force attack cards are significantly weaker when the board is constantly empty!


Sweepers:
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Austere Command
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Sunblast Angel

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
I consider these cards as "necessary evils" since they work against my overall strategy. We all know that things never go as planned however, and sometimes you just need a reset button.

Toxic Deluge is a new addition. Great unconditional life drop that I can use with Reverse the Sands, Repay in Kind, Children of Korlis etc.


Utility:
1 Withered Wretch
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Aura of Silence

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
Withered Wretch - Synergy with Tariel, allows me to exile chaff and reanimate the goodies.

Rakdos Charm - Versatile card, good space saving card.

Seal of Cleansing - Sun Titan synergy is obvious, but the not so obvious part is it serves as a decent rattlesnake card against Artifact Creatures and politically threatening to destroy someones things should they choose to attack you.

Aura of Silence - see above, but better.


Artifact Accel:
1 Sol Ring
1 Boros Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Burnished Hart
1 Solemn Simulacrum

Individual card discussion/notable omissions:
Not much to say here, Kor Cartographer could possibly be added.


Lands:
1 Command Tower
1 Vesuva
1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Fetid Heath
1 Graven Cairns
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Boros Garrison
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Kor Haven
1 High Market
1 Strip Mine
3 Mountain
3 Plains
3 Swamp


Sorted by card type & CMC:
Quote:
**May not be 100% correct, made too many changes at once and might have missed some changes on this side. Will be fixed soon.

General:
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls

Creatures:
1 Children of Korlis
1 Viskopa Guildmage
1 Withered Wretch
1 Goblin Diplomats
1 Maddening Imp
1 Auramancer
1 Windborn Muse
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Mad Prophet
1 Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Fumiko the Lowblood
1 Basandra, Battle Seraph
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Archon of Justice
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Dread
1 Sun Titan
1 Sunblast Angel
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Avatar of Slaughter
1 Ashen Rider

Enchantments:
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Soul Snare
1 Animate Dead
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Aura of Silence
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 No Mercy
1 Wound Reflection
1 Martyr’s Bond

Instants:
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Boros Fury-Shield
1 Reflect Damage

Sorceries:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Living Death
1 Twilight's Call
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Austere Command
1 Repay in Kind
1 Reverse the Sands

Artifacts:
1 Sol Ring
1 Boros Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Burnished Hart
1 Solemn Simulacrum

Lands:
1 Command Tower
1 Vesuva
1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Fetid Heath
1 Graven Cairns
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Boros Garrison
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Thespian's Stage
1 [c]Kor Haven

1 High Market
1 Strip Mine
3 Mountain
3 Plains
3 Swamp
Maze of Ith


Cards I am considering:

Blind Obedience
Imposing Sovereign
Loxodon Gatekeeper

I’d love to squeeze in the above set. Having opponents creatures enter tapped combined with force attacks = saucy. Can’t find room though unless I cut into stuff that makes the list more well rounded. Flavor vs function.

Sun Droplet - This needs to be squeezed in somewhere. So good with all my No Mercy effects.

Seal of Doom - This got cut for Spear of Heliod, but I wouldn’t mind it back in.

Act of Authority - Seems legit, and I have enough ways to recur it to make it worthwhile.

Sphere of Safety - I have enough enchantments to make this really good. The question is if it is better then Windborn Muse. Muse is a body to beat with and more recurrable, whereas Sphere is not and only recurrable by Auramancer.

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Last edited by GoodbyeWorld on 2014-Feb-21 12:30 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-21 12:07 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Updated 22/02/14.

This is my most favourite list that I've come up with. Now that I've physically finished my R/G list to a level of satisfaction (I was 80% there), I can slowly start buying this one. Cannot wait to complete.

Card suggestions need to be either extremely practical or extremely flavourful (and good) to get a spot at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-21 12:31 pm 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
This is a very interesting take. I like the concpet quite a lot. One question: Have you played this list? Or is it theory at this point? Just want to know because this seems like one of those decks - you know the type - that look utterly amazing on paper, but just don't pan out the way you think/hope.

I say this because I tried a similar approach in this same color scheme no less, back in the day, and it was... not a success. But that was quite some time ago, and the card pool is much deeper now, so I'm interested in revisiting the idea. I'd just like some superficial reassurance that I wouldn't simply be repeating past mistakes...

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-21 12:43 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Mostly theoretical honestly, outside of a few games on Cockatrice awhile back. It worked as intended in those few games that I did play though.

But no, not played extensively... :(

However, while I am rusty with play experience, I visit my local(s) often enough and watch people play/catch up with friends. On observation, I see no reason why the list wouldn't fit/function fine with my meta. If for instance I felt my meta turned things sideways constantly anyway, the force attack cards could probably be cut. My observations lead me to believe that the force attacks cards will work great at messing up our tables however :D. People like to sit on their creatures and play 'politics'.

That and I took great care to not all in on the force attack plan and to provide alternate more straightforward ways to win and take advantage of the pillorfort factor (which I consider a fairly universal decent strategy). You can see that in the weight I placed on rattlesnake cards versus force attack cards.

Simply changing Fumiko the Lowblood for Rage Nimbus de-emphasizes the risk/opportunity cost of force attacks significantly as well and is a easy change to make if you were worried about all-ins like Fumiko blowing up in your face.

Living Death is also universally functional beyond its stated intent, and only Twilight's Call becomes functionally questionable if things go south.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-21 1:32 pm 

Joined: 2008-Nov-30 12:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Awesome, thanks for clarifying on that point. I'm more or less sold on the fact that I just simply don't have any other ideas for the RWB combination. I will likely give this a try and see how it does.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-22 4:13 am 

Joined: 2013-Oct-09 7:02 am
Age: Elder Dragon
What about Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs?


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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-22 9:11 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
MrCool wrote:


He was in at some point, people always pegged him as a weaker pick.

I liked him though, so he may go back in. Martyr's Bond has his current spot.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-23 1:34 pm 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Blazing Archon?

It seems like you might want more pillow fort stuff. Depending on your play experience, I guess. There's a ton of great stuff in B/W for this, obviously.

What about something like treasury thrull for recursion? I find it pretty decent, as Sun Titan #2. Extort is a fun ability, too.

I can't look at a list with tainted sigil, children of korlis, repay in kind, reverse the sands, wound reflection, and not suggest ad nauseam and lich. Especially since you're ok with the random spell-based combo kills; ad nauseam and lich make that plan better.

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Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-24 1:07 am 
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Yah Blazing Archon could/should be in probably. A straight cannot be attacked card is quite good reanimated off Living Death + Fumiko. Makes for a good reanimation target as well.

Ad Nauseum and Lich won't make the cut because the other cards you highlighted all have applications outside of winning the game, where as those two are a bit narrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-24 2:19 pm 
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(tangent)

Tariel would be way cooler if she was a vampire instead of an angel. This is partly because I want an excuse to play Vish Kal, Olivia Voldaren, Blood Baron, and the mono-red slith vampires in the same deck, but also 'cause there's already an oversupply of cool angels, and if you're running RWB angels you're probably already playing Kaalia.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-26 11:23 am 
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 8:25 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Zealand
Kemev wrote:
(tangent)

Tariel would be way cooler if she was a vampire instead of an angel. This is partly because I want an excuse to play Vish Kal, Olivia Voldaren, Blood Baron, and the mono-red slith vampires in the same deck, but also 'cause there's already an oversupply of cool angels, and if you're running RWB angels you're probably already playing Kaalia.


I could get behind this.

I'm considering gutting the recursion package a bit for space. Mostly Animate Dead and Necromancy. Either going more on flavour, or putting in something simple like Path + Plowshare for instance.

Vindicate would go back in for Ashen Rider as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-19 2:59 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
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Been awhile since I've had a chance to brew.

New sets, new cards to consider (in addition to the ones already listed in the OP).

Warmonger Hellkite is a must and so is Comeuppance. Deflecting Palm possibly as well.

Angel of the Dire Hour and Bitter Feud are also on theme.

At this stange, I think I should seriously look at cutting Animate Dead, Necromancy and Mad Prophet and in doing so, cut some of the higher CMC creatures (Baleful Force, Avatar of Slaughter [maybe...], Ashen Rider etc.). I may also cut Vizkopa Guildmage, but unsure, because it enables a few power plays that increases the competitiveness of the list somewhat...

Basically continue to solidify the primary theme of forcing people to attack (but not me), with the secondary theme of manipulating life totals to the advantage of Reverse the Sands/Repay in Kind.

Did I miss anything else noteworthy in the new sets? Been about a year I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-20 5:22 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Funny, I've just dusted off my Fumiko, which is basically doing the same thing your Tariel does, only in monored, with a general that forces attacks by herself and a Wall tribal theme for good measure. When I have some practical tips/observations, I'll post them here.

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 Post subject: Re: Talriel, Reckoner of Souls - Pillowfort w/a twist - 22/02/14
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-24 9:21 am 
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Antis wrote:
Funny, I've just dusted off my Fumiko, which is basically doing the same thing your Tariel does, only in monored, with a general that forces attacks by herself and a Wall tribal theme for good measure. When I have some practical tips/observations, I'll post them here.


Definitely tell me how it goes, look forward to it.

I've built this list online and my observation is it doesn't work as well online as in real life.

Less chatting = less time for politics, so it is really hard to bluff people into any rattlesnake cards you may or may not be holding.

Ditto with the force attack cards, people are much more aggressive online, so forcing people to attack is almost redundant and there is less chance for other players to talk their way out of being attacked.

Repay in Kind is harder to use then I thought, or at least, without a bunch of tutors to guarantee Tainted Sigil or Children of Korlis, it's often dead. Finding low hanging fruit without that player dying before getting to cast it has also been tough.

May have to take this colour combination in another direction... I'm borderline thinking RWB goodstuff control would be fun for online.

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