Login | Register


All times are UTC - 7 hours


It is currently 2019-Sep-22 11:32 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-23 3:06 pm 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Need's cards such as , Abyssal Persecutor, Canker Abomination, Desecration Demon, Grinning Demon, Noxious Hatchling, Stenchskipper, Nyxathid, etc.

They should provide your big bonus /cheap creature early turn rushes, that really put your opponents on the back foot.


Last edited by green slime on 2014-Feb-23 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-23 3:15 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Oh, another one popped into mind: Thought Gorger. Can be brutal with scavenge and is templated in such a good way that you never lose out on him. Countered? Killed in response to trigger? You don't discard. Anything else? "Leaves play", baby 8) In between? Big dude with trample. Could be tech...

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-23 3:25 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Yeah I have Thought Gorger in my Damia deck and it works really well in there; scavenging onto him is pretty techy, but it would take away from the Voltron bit of the deck somewhat.

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-23 3:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
IDK, didn't see much of that last time, anyway :D

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-23 6:22 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-May-02 11:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Thoughts:

Attrition seems great for your plan, particularly with Bloodghast and the like
Skullclamp for them as well
Deadbridge Chant feeds your plan and gives incidental recursion
Grave Pact board control with all the death on your side
Intimidation always performs well

I also think Diabolic Servitude might be a miss for the intended purpose. It only targets creatures in your graveyard, which is fine but not what you referenced.

_________________
Current EDH Decks

Color Pie Project

White: Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
Blue: Braids, Conjurer Adept
Black: Anowon, the Ruin Sage
Red: Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Green: Omnath, Locus of Mana


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-23 9:47 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Oh wow! Lots of responses! Thanks so much, I appreciate the feedback. Okay, down to responding:

First, a general theme in suggestions I'm seeing is looking at trying to more cards into my graveyard faster. In general, I'm completely for this plan, but in practice I think this doesn't pan out very well. The problem, unfortunately, is the commonness of graveyard exile effects in the format currently. Even a single one could ruin the deck just before I'm able to take advantage of my graveyard, especially since the most common ones are at instant speed (namely Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus). This is coupled with the low amount of mana currently in the deck (getting to seven or eight mana is usually a chore, since there's virtually no land search to make room for creatures and utility cards--this is hopefully fixed as I get the draw cards I need). Therefore, I'm currently forced to Scavenging only when I absolutely need to. I'm going to return to this later, though.

Second, I'm really trying to avoid both general Golgari strategies--mostly reanimator and Grave Pact effects--because they feel like very common strategies to me. I might be deluding myself on that, but they also go against the core Voltron strategy. If I'm using all of my mana on recursion, for example, then I probably don't have many creatures in my graveyard for scavenging and Varolz is too weak a creature on his own to care about reanimating. Jared and Glissa are better at recursion or for recursion, and Savra and Sisters of Stone Death seem better for Grave Pact effects. That being said, I'm breaking down and putting Grave Pact into the deck. Reanimation is going to remain out--the reason being the best high power/low cost creatures are fairly terrible on the battlefield--and so I'd have to change a whole lot to make it work.

Now for specific responses:
Antis wrote:
I took a look at your list and first and foremost, I support the inclusion of Greater Good.

Random brainstorming:

Drawing:
Soul of the Harvest--good for card draw, but this isn't a token deck. Plus, it doesn't mix well with scavenge
Regal Force--see above
Graveborn Muse--would be awesome if only Varolz were a zombie. I know one card a turn is better than none, but I think there's better draw
Soul's Majesty--maybe, but I'm wondering if repeated, single card draw wouldn't be better
Momentous Fall--my only problem is the mostly like target for this card is Varolz...and then I lose all my scavenge
Skeletal Scrying (this is a good one)--very tempting, I'll have to see if I have one around
Phyrexian Arena--so many decks, so few to go around; therefore, only if I can find another one
Promise of Power--so tempting, but I'd still rather have repeated draw

Other:
Mortivore (you have Lhurgoyf in there, but not this?)--I'm actually thinking of taking Llurgoyf out. It seems like such a great deal, but honestly, unless there's a mill strategy at the table or the game goes for longer than ours has, then there's just not a lot of creatures going into the GY, especially if I'm getting rid of mine all the time. Normally, it gets up to around four or five, and I can do better.
Terravore (depends on meta, if there is a lot of fetches, it shines)--seems like a meta call, and one I haven't seen particularly yet
Hunted Troll--in general, I've got higher power/cost creatures fitting in the category of "I'm probably never letting this hit play"
Mycoloth (this just HAS to work)--I'd really like to avoid the token strategy, and Mycoloth tends to eat removal like it was designed by R&D that way
Mogis's Marauder (this one's a beast)--very interesting, and I'll continue to think about it

I want to ask, why don't you play Grave Pact effects? Is there a particular reason?--I'm probably putting this in this round
Answers as shown. It's nice to play the deck, and then get generous feedback. Also, I'll have to think more about Thought Gorger. It's definitely nice tech, but it does detract a little from the Voltron strategy. A well-timed exile effect or tuck effect could also be very damaging if I can't sac him to Varolz for some reason. And finally, you didn't see a whole lot of Voltron last game because it isn't in equipment or enchantment form. Plus, I was having to play around your instant-speed stuff a lot, so I was purposefully holding back and waiting for the right opportunities, like when I killed you. :wink:

green slime wrote:
Need's cards such as , Abyssal Persecutor, Canker Abomination, Desecration Demon, Grinning Demon, Noxious Hatchling, Stenchskipper, Nyxathid, etc.

They should provide your big bonus /cheap creature early turn rushes, that really put your opponents on the back foot.
Stenchskipper and Nyxathid are probably no-go's, and unfortunately I don't have an Abyssal Persecutor, but I have several of the others and I'm planning on finding space for at least a couple of them. Thanks! I think I'd really like to see Spiritmonger fill this roll, and I'm hoping on getting at least one sometime near in the future.

The_Dr_B wrote:
Thoughts:

Attrition seems great for your plan, particularly with Bloodghast and the like
Skullclamp for them as well
Deadbridge Chant feeds your plan and gives incidental recursion
Grave Pact board control with all the death on your side
Intimidation always performs well

I also think Diabolic Servitude might be a miss for the intended purpose. It only targets creatures in your graveyard, which is fine but not what you referenced.
Wow, am I embarrassed about Diabolic Servitude! I swear I've read that card a dozen times, and somehow I've missed it only works for my graveyard. I believe Intimidation was in the pile of cards I considered when initially building this deck, but ended up taking it out due to cost. It also seemed with the spirit of the deck to provide this effect with via creatures; however, if I snag a Spiritmonger for this deck then I may reconsider it. I don't currently know that I have a free Skullclamp floating around, but I'm going to be adding Grave Pact in. I'll have to give more thought about Attrition though.


So, here's the changes:
- Diabolic Servitude--we're not even going to talk about this one, so don't bring it up, lol
- Lhurgoyf--this one hurts, but I think having non-variable P/T values are going to be better, with the exception of Lord of Extinction
- Bridge from Below--maybe another day, I'll put this one back in, but for now I'm taking it out
- Noxious Revival--too little effect to be useful
- Fleshwrither--cute, but again just not enough effect to the board
- Skirge Familiar--I really want this card too, but one or two black here or there just doesn't seem worth the poor power-to-cost ratio
- Mitotic Slime--poor slime, better cards will take your place I promise
- Swamp
- Forest

+ Grave Pact--the effect is just too good, and I sometimes will need something crippling to get back into a game
+ Rings of Brighthearth--because one Scavenge effect per card isn't enough
+ Desecration Demon--as pointed out, I need early game impact which people will waste removal on
+ Greed--sadly, the best repeated draw I can do under the current circumstances; I'm hoping to visit an LGS in my new area soon
+ Canker Abomination--early beat
+ Reaper of the Wilds--somewhat early beat with an interesting effect and late game deathtouch significance
+ Puppeteer Clique--replacing that card I'm not talking about right now
+ Woodland Cemetery
+ Overgrown Tomb

Cards I considered when I looked today at what I could find in my collection:
Necropolis Regent--I cannot express how exciting I find this card, and how many times I've blown out games in very casual settings with it so far...but the mana cost is somewhat depressing, and I don't know what I'd take out for it.

Noxious Hatchling--I'm going with Reaper of the Wilds for now, so this didn't end up finding a place

Null Rod--remember I said I'd get back to graveyard exile effects? Well, if I could somehow consistently search this card up, I'd do it. But I've kinda resigned myself to stay low on tutors for now.

City of Solitude--I look at this card a lot, but I inevitably decide against it because then I couldn't regenerate Varolz in response to a wrath.

Vulturous Zombie--I keep picking this card up too, but I'd immediately take it out for Spiritmonger. Due to this, I never end up trying very hard to find a place for it.

_________________
Current:
Decklists are posted here. They can all be found in the Decklist Forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-23 11:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Segrus wrote:
Soul of the Harvest--good for card draw, but this isn't a token deck. Plus, it doesn't mix well with scavenge
Graveborn Muse--would be awesome if only Varolz were a zombie. I know one card a turn is better than none, but I think there's better draw
Mycoloth (this just HAS to work)--I'd really like to avoid the token strategy, and Mycoloth tends to eat removal like it was designed by R&D that way
Mogis's Marauder (this one's a beast)--very interesting, and I'll continue to think about it.
Also, I'll have to think more about Thought Gorger. It's definitely nice tech, but it does detract a little from the Voltron strategy. A well-timed exile effect or tuck effect could also be very damaging if I can't sac him to Varolz for some reason.

For Soul of the Harvest, it's good that you don't have a token strategy, since it only draws for nontoken creatures :wink: It's an effective creature with a card draw effect. I think, as with Graveborn Muse, that you should value creatures with abilities you want a little more than in other decks, since your general can get additional value out of them. Yes, you could draw cards more effectively, but these cards being creatures means regen and scavenge for you and if I were you, I'd value that high enough to include them.

You're probably right about Mycoloth, seeing as scavenge is a sorcery-speed ability, so it would have to survive for a whole turn to actually do anything.

Mogis's Marauder is much better if you can recur him (just imagine casting Living Death with him in the grave), but since that isn't your MO, he loses some utility. Still good, especially for a deck people don't really expect haste from. Bonus tech: try casting him with Horobi on the table 8)

As for Thought Gorger I'm getting an impression from your response that you need to read him again. Two words: LEAVES. PLAY. A well-timed exile or tuck effect don't do nothing, except draw you a lot of cards :D Bounce him? WHY, THANK YOU SO MUCH! :twisted:

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Feb-24 5:56 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Antis wrote:
As for Thought Gorger I'm getting an impression from your response that you need to read him again. Two words: LEAVES. PLAY. A well-timed exile or tuck effect don't do nothing, except draw you a lot of cards :D Bounce him? WHY, THANK YOU SO MUCH! :twisted:

Hmm, reading is tech. I still have to find a place for him, also find someone who still has one. It may just be something I have to order down the road.

_________________
Current:
Decklists are posted here. They can all be found in the Decklist Forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Jun-09 1:26 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Conspiracy changes:

-Triumph of Ferocity
-Putrefy
+Pernicious Deed
+Deathreap Ritua

More killing and more possibilities for cards being drawn. Seems good to me (not ideal, of course, but better than what I had).

_________________
Current:
Decklists are posted here. They can all be found in the Decklist Forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Varolz and Being Alone
AgePosted: 2014-Sep-21 11:18 am 
User avatar

Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
Some further changes:

- Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
- Carrion
- Worldly Tutor
- Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
- Corpsejack Menace
- Skarrg Goliath

+ Life from the Loam
+ Thought Gorger
+ Polukranos, World Eater
+ Cadaverous Bloom
+ Swamp
+ Forest

Basically, Jarad doesn't cut it. He doesn't get big (since he only cares about my graveyard, and my graveyard is unlikely to have much there), and recurring him seems stupid. That leaves his middle ability, and I never really get around to using it. When Varolz is big is the only time the ability is useful, and I would much rather attack since general damage is a lot easier to reach than 40 life. Corpsejack also never seemed to do it for me. Why lose a tutor? Well...eh? Entomb, Jarad's Orders, and Buried Alive do very well on their own.

The only one I'm a little sad about is Skarrg Goliath. So many good times: Varolz, swinging in for some damage without trample, a player blocks, Varolz suddenly +9/+9 with trample...ah, so many laughs. Unfortunately, the mana is really difficult to reach and Varolz doesn't have quite enough protection to avoid getting bounced or exiled after I Bloodrush the Goliath. :(

Cadaverous Bloom is probably the only really weird card I'm adding. Exiling cards from my hand would seem to be the worst thing I could do, but I'm finding I sit around with a lot of cards in my hand sometime. There's a chance the mana ramp will allow me to do some crazy, sudden things. I'm looking forward to testing out the card. There's a decent chance it'll suck, but I want to see it in action first.

Other changes I considered:
Scuttling Doom Engine: Polukranos is a better fit, and Thought Gorger draws me cards.
Feast on the Fallen: the counters aren't quite enough to warrant using the card.
Hornet Nest: I was really considering this rattlesnake card, because scavenging just once or twice would be enough.
Natural Balance: still want this card in the deck to fight heavy ramp decks.
Memory Jar: Thought Gorger won out over this card.

_________________
Current:
Decklists are posted here. They can all be found in the Decklist Forum.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 54 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: