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 Post subject: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-16 12:07 am 
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Joined: 2013-Nov-04 2:12 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Northamptonshire, UK
Deck name: “Chorus of Counters”

Commander: Chorus of the Conclave

Colours: Green/White

Theme/s: +1/+1 counters

Primary Win Condition/s: Attacking with creatures

Secondary Win Condition/s: Commander damage

Budget: $20 (this is a deck made up of “leftover” cards that I can’t seem to get rid of from my trade folder, plus a couple I’ve kept for it specifically, so I’m not really planning on spending any significant amount of money on this deck. I'm willing to stretch for a few ramp cards I don't already own, with the most expensive of those being Solemn Simulacrum seeing as it's an EDH staple)

Playgroup: My playgroup is a very casual kitchen-table style with up to two opponents; we had more but they’ve moved back home so I don’t get to play against them any more. We don’t use Eldrazi (for fear of mutual deck escalation) or many infinite combos (usually because no-one owns the right cards to do so). I generally play against any or all of the following decks:
Player 1: mono-Green goodstuff/ mono-Red Chandler artifact creature destruction+Intimidate, White/Black/Red Kaalia of the Vast Angel tribal deck, Green/Blue/Red Riku of Two Reflections pre-con from Commander 2011
Player 2: Bant Rubinia Soulsinger “Tim” deck/Selesnya Gabriel Angelfire Banding deck


Welcome to my third ever EDH deck made (though second posted here). This deck is somewhat unique in that I built this deck with no commander in mind. Over the past year I've managed to pull a large number of cards that granted +1/+1 counters, either to themselves or to other creatures. In the end I decided to build a Commander deck with that as a theme, seeing as most of them I couldn’t get rid of from my trade folder :roll: .

The commander I picked for this deck is Chorus of the Conclave; all of the cards involved were Green or White, and Chorus of the Conclave is one of only two GW legends that reference +1/+1 counters. I consider the commander to be expensive (mana-wise) and not too useful, but she goes (they go?) well with the deck’s theme, and I managed to get one for nothing off of one of my friends.

This deck has no special game plan or combo; it aims to win solely by turning creatures sideways and attacking. The first draft of this deck was pretty much slaved to the theme of +1/+1 counters and wasn’t all that great. Thanks to the advice given in this thread, I’ve made significant changes to it. Please let me know what you think.

Let’s take a look at the deck.

Chorus of the Conclave – the commander.

Burnished Hart
Fertilid
Gyre Sage
Karametra, God of Harvests
Kor Cartographer
Ondu Giant
Quirion Trailblazer
Seedguide Ash
Silverglade Elemental
Solemn Simulacrum
Viridian Emissary
Yavimaya Dryad
Yavimaya Elder

My ramp is mostly on creatures, especially the ones that tutor lands directly onto the battlefield. Despite being undersized for their cost, there are enough ways for me to put +1/+1 counters on them later on that they can hopefully still contribute at all stages of the game. There are a couple of nice tricks I can play here, such as using some of the many cards that add +1/+1 counters to Fertilid to keep tutoring basic lands onto the battlefield.

Cytoplast Root-Kin
Forgotten Ancient
Ivy Lane Denizen
Mikaeus, the Lunarch
Renegade Krasis

These cards let me share their counters with the other creatures in the deck, so are prime targets for effects that add counters (excepting Ivy Lane Denizen and Renegade Krasis, in their own ways).

Bramblewood Paragon
Cenn's Tactician
Crowned Ceratok
Fungal Behemoth
Mycoloth
Pentavus
Shinewend
Triskelion
Twilight Drover

Fun things to do with counters. Mycoloth, Pentavus, and Twilight Drover all work really well with the anthem effects in the deck, as well as Doubling Season and Primal Vigor. Fungal Behemoth is simultaneously a card that adds counters as well as a potential win condition in the late game.

Mindless Automaton
Sun Titan

A couple of card advantage engines here. Mindless Automaton works really well in the deck without even needing to discard cards. Sun Titan has a load of targets, including Ordeal of Nylea, potentially giving me two free lands and a bonus counter every two turns.

Arbor Colossus
Benalish Lancer
Colossus of Akros
Fleecemane Lion
Garruk's Packleader
Heliod, God of the Sun
Hundred-Handed One
Kor Sanctifiers
Nessian Asp
Nullmage Shepherd
Predator Ooze
Primordial Hydra
Primordial Sage
Scavenging Ooze

And here’s everything else. There are a number of different effects in there, including cards that just keep growing, some large monsters that can grow even larger, several creatures intended to hold back the tides of attackers, and a number of different effects including graveyard hate, card draw, and an anthem.


Bow of Nylea
Cathars' Crusade
Doubling Season
Ordeal of Nylea
Primal Vigor
True Conviction

My Enchantments mostly give me more counters, but there is an anthem in there. The Bow of Nylea should give me some options once it’s in play.

Otherworldly Journey

Just one Instant for now. Hopefully it should save someone and they get to come back in with a bit of a bonus.

Ajani, Caller of the Pride

The only on-colour Planeswalker I own (other than Elspeth, Sun’s Champion but she doesn’t fit the deck’s theme very well). I think I’d prefer to have either Ajani Steadfast or Ajani, Mentor of Heroes but I don’t currently own either of those. His +1 ability works really nicely with Mikaus, as they’ll grant everyone a +1/+1 counter every turn between the two of them.

Cultivate
Explosive Vegetation
Harmonize
Increasing Savagery
Life's Legacy

Mostly just some ramp and some card draw off of my Sorceries.

Akroma's Memorial
Ring of Kalonia
Ring of Thune

Nothing really special here in my Artifacts. I like the Ring cycle from M13 so I’ve put both of the appropriate coloured Rings in here. The Akroma’s Memorial should allow my hordes of creatures and/or tokens to win games.


Deserted Temple
Elfhame Palace
22 x Forest
Gavony Township
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
10 x Plains
Selesnya Guildgate
Temple Garden
Temple of Plenty
Temple of the False God

I’ve gone up to 40 lands now as my earlier land count of 34 was way too low for a deck like this. Hopefully with all of my ramp effects I should be able to get up to 8 or more quickly enough.

There’s nothing really special about these lands; there are a few dual lands here that I own in GW, but nothing overly special. The Deserted Temple can be used with either Nykthos or with Gavony Township in order to get double use out of either of those lands.

_________________
Regards,
MT.


Putrid Pirate Proliferation
Lord of Voltronhorn
Unlife of the Party
Jaya Ballard, Discard Mage
Zedruu and the Minotaurs
Vish Kal's ManSlaughterhouse
Izzet Any Good?

Chorus of Counters


Last edited by Masked Thespian on 2014-Aug-10 10:36 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-16 12:08 am 
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Joined: 2013-Nov-04 2:12 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Northamptonshire, UK
Reserved for changes and for overflow, if necessary.

Changelog

16/11/13: Deck posted
7/8/14:
Added:
Garruk's Packleader, Heliod, God of the Sun, Kor Cartographer, Ondu Giant, Primordial Sage, Quirion Trailblazer, Seedguide Ash, Silverglade Elemental, Solemn Simulacrum, Viridian Emissary, Wood Elves, Yavimaya Dryad, Yavimaya Elder, Yavimaya Granger, Akroma's Memorial, Doubling Season, Harmonize, Life's Legacy, Primal Vigor, True Conviction, Temple Garden, Temple of Plenty, and a number of basic Plains and Forests.

Removed:
Llanowar Elite, Phalanx Leader, Deranged Outcast, Drudge Beetle, Wingsteed Rider, Elder Cathar, Battering Krasis, Chronicler of Heroes, Korozda Monitor, Golgari Decoy, Thrashing Mossdog, Staunch-Hearted Warrior, Centaur Battlemaster, Adaptive Snapjaw, Dearly Departed, Forced Adaptation, Mutant’s Prey, Burst of Strength, Hunger of the Howlpack, Ordeal of Heliod, Test of Faith, Travel Preparations, Hindervines, Common Bond, Hunt the Weak, Seek the Horizon, White Mana Battery, Timberland Ruins, Ruins of Trokair, Strip Mine, Vivid Meadow, and Vivid Grove.

11/8/14:
Added:
Bramblewood Paragon, Cenn’s Tactician, Cytoplast Root-Kin, Fungal Behemoth, Karametra, God of Harvests, Kor Sanctifiers, Mindless Automaton, Nullmage Shepherd, Shinewend, and Sun Titan.

Removed:
Battering Krasis, Crocanura, Dirtcowl Wurm, Incremental Growth, Lumberknot, Pale Recluse, Quirion Dryad, Unruly Mob, Wood Elves, and Yavimaya Granger.

_________________
Regards,
MT.


Putrid Pirate Proliferation
Lord of Voltronhorn
Unlife of the Party
Jaya Ballard, Discard Mage
Zedruu and the Minotaurs
Vish Kal's ManSlaughterhouse
Izzet Any Good?

Chorus of Counters


Last edited by Masked Thespian on 2014-Aug-10 10:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-21 10:50 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 1:24 pm
Age: Dragon
General advice: More ramp. If you can make it creature based (like Wood Elves, Ondu Giant, etc.) it's even better. Chorus is a costly Commander, but she's a ton of fun once she gets out there. Buy using dudes that stick around to ramp, you can add counters to them if Chorus is already in play, and if Chorus isn't, you're ramping to her.

I assume you don't have Doubling Season, or it would already be in there? There's also the new one from the Commander product, forgeting the name.

Since you are so creature heavy, enchantments and artifacts that give all your creatures some sort of bonus would be nice. Akroma's Memorial, True Conviction, that kind of stuff.

Vigor is pretty awesome in general.

You don't really have much card advantage. It looks like you can easily get blown out by a Wrath. Either you need some form of recursion (Genesis, Sun Titan, etc.) or you need actual draw (Hunter's Insight, Harmonize, Momentous Fall) or both. Nature's Resurgence isn't horrible with the amount of creatures you have, but there's also Grim Flowering.

Just some ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-21 3:12 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Tarasco wrote:
General advice: More ramp. If you can make it creature based (like Wood Elves, Ondu Giant, etc.) it's even better. Chorus is a costly Commander, but she's a ton of fun once she gets out there. Buy using dudes that stick around to ramp, you can add counters to them if Chorus is already in play, and if Chorus isn't, you're ramping to her.


This is good advice! In fact, I would take it a step further and say that you should run every creature that finds a land when it enters play or dies (assuming it can attack, and doesn't have too many conditions attached). Like Tarasco says, the ramp creatures will always be an asset.



I don't think 43 creatures is necessarily too many for the deck either. I don't think you want to run Heroic cards in this deck though. Heroic as a mechanic wants you to split space with creatures and lots of spells to target them, while Chorus of the Conclave really only cares about creatures. So I'm pretty sure trying to make Heroic work will make the rest of the deck less workable.

Once you start cutting Heroic guys, the other human-related cards start to make less sense, so you could cut them too.

A lot of your non-creature spells are either too clunky (like White Mana Battery) or too small an effect (like Burst of Strength). Besides the ramp and some of the fight cards, you could probably cut most of them.

The card advantage is a bit trickier if you don't want to buy a lot more stuff, since the kinds of cards you really want are the ones that will let you draw repeatedly (something like Greater Good or Garruk, Primal Hunter would be ideal). In addition to the couple cards Tarasco mentioned, you could also add Creeping Renaissance; recurring 5 or 10 cards at a time is always nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-21 11:47 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
Oh... those kinds of counters... I thought this was going to be a 1 vs 1 control deck :)

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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-01 2:50 am 
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Joined: 2013-Nov-04 2:12 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Northamptonshire, UK
Tarasco wrote:
General advice: More ramp. If you can make it creature based (like Wood Elves, Ondu Giant, etc.) it's even better. Chorus is a costly Commander, but she's a ton of fun once she gets out there. Buy using dudes that stick around to ramp, you can add counters to them if Chorus is already in play, and if Chorus isn't, you're ramping to her.


The more I think about it, the more I think you're right. The first draft of this deck was built around the fact that I had a number of White and Green cards but didn't use them (thanks to going heavily Zombie and Vampire tribal during Innistrad, I've mostly focussed on playing Grixis colours throughout my decks, so I don't really trade for good White or Green cards and made the deck out of whatever leftovers I couldn't trade away), but I disassembled that around a year ago. I recently remade it (as you can see here) but I think that I've taken the theme of "+1/+1 counters" too far and basically crippled the deck by staying too close to theme.

Along with Kemev's advice below, I'm going to try and put more ramp in, especially creature based ramp since that goes well with the rest of the deck and its theme.


Tarasco wrote:
I assume you don't have Doubling Season, or it would already be in there? There's also the new one from the Commander product, forgeting the name.


At the time you posted this, I didn't. Since then I actually splurged on a Doubling Season specifically for this deck (as well as being an investment because I feel it's such a good card) and I've picked up the other doubler from Commander 2013, both of which will be going into the deck when I get the chance to sit down and amend the list.

Tarasco wrote:
Since you are so creature heavy, enchantments and artifacts that give all your creatures some sort of bonus would be nice. Akroma's Memorial, True Conviction, that kind of stuff.


Akroma's Memorial is about the only card I have that gives a global bonus like that. I've just traded for a Heliod, God of the Sun and he gives a bonus to all of my creatures so I can see him going into the deck. If I find any other on-colour cards that grant all of my creatures abilities then 'll certainly consider putting them in.

Tarasco wrote:
Vigor is pretty awesome in general.


Ouch. You're right. That's an awesome card. It's really pricey, though.

Tarasco wrote:
You don't really have much card advantage. It looks like you can easily get blown out by a Wrath. Either you need some form of recursion (Genesis, Sun Titan, etc.) or you need actual draw (Hunter's Insight, Harmonize, Momentous Fall) or both. Nature's Resurgence isn't horrible with the amount of creatures you have, but there's also Grim Flowering.


I am painfully aware of this (as the only card that draws me anything is Chronicler of Heroes) but have relatively few cards to use to take advantage of this. I do have a Harmonize from Commander 2013 that could go in here, but precious little beyond that. I'll have to look into the depths of my collection to see what I can dig up.


Kemev wrote:
In fact, I would take it a step further and say that you should run every creature that finds a land when it enters play or dies (assuming it can attack, and doesn't have too many conditions attached). Like Tarasco says, the ramp creatures will always be an asset.



Indeed. I've gone and purchased a couple of these creatures (Sylvan Ranger and Yavimaya Dryad) as well as already owning a few of them (Borderland Ranger, Ondu Giant, Quirion Trailblazer, Silverglade Elemental, Sylvan Primordial, and Viridian Emissary) so now that I'm aware of this subset of creatures I'm sure I'll put most of, if not all of, them into the deck.

Kemev wrote:
I don't think 43 creatures is necessarily too many for the deck either. I don't think you want to run Heroic cards in this deck though. Heroic as a mechanic wants you to split space with creatures and lots of spells to target them, while Chorus of the Conclave really only cares about creatures. So I'm pretty sure trying to make Heroic work will make the rest of the deck less workable.


As I mentioned above, this is mostly due to trying to make it such that every card in the deck granted +1/+1 counters or cared about them. The Heroic cards were picked mostly because they seemed pretty good but since I'm going to deviate from the theme a little I'm more than happy to cut them (since I have precious few Heroic enablers in the deck).

Kemev wrote:
A lot of your non-creature spells are either too clunky (like White Mana Battery) or too small an effect (like Burst of Strength). Besides the ramp and some of the fight cards, you could probably cut most of them.[/card]

Again, they're mostly there because I already owned them and they were on theme. I feel more comfortable about cutting them after you and Tarasco have made your comments.

Kemev wrote:
The card advantage is a bit trickier if you don't want to buy a lot more stuff, since the kinds of cards you really want are the ones that will let you draw repeatedly (something like Greater Good or Garruk, Primal Hunter would be ideal). In addition to the couple cards Tarasco mentioned, you could also add Creeping Renaissance; recurring 5 or 10 cards at a time is always nice.


Sadly, I own none of those cards that you've mentioned. I'll have to dig deep to try and come up with some decent card advantage cards that I own (because, other than the Doubling Season that I've already bought, I don't particularly want to spend much money on this deck).

Thanks for your input, guys. I'll be sure to take it on board and will revise the decklist when I get the chance.

_________________
Regards,
MT.


Putrid Pirate Proliferation
Lord of Voltronhorn
Unlife of the Party
Jaya Ballard, Discard Mage
Zedruu and the Minotaurs
Vish Kal's ManSlaughterhouse
Izzet Any Good?

Chorus of Counters


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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-03 10:15 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 1:24 pm
Age: Dragon
Here are some more draw cards that you might have lying around that I haven't mentioned already:

Heartwood Storyteller
Magus of the Library
Masked Admirers
Primordial Sage
Soul of the Harvest
Drumhunter
Praetor's Counsel
Garruk's Packleader
Keen Sense
Triumph of Ferocity

Some of these are obviously better than others. Deadwood Treefolk is also worth considering to get good stuff back from your yard.

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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-03 11:08 am 
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Joined: 2013-Nov-04 2:12 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Northamptonshire, UK
I do own a Primordial Sage and a Garruk's Packleader, so those will almost certainly go in. Thanks for the advice!

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MT.


Putrid Pirate Proliferation
Lord of Voltronhorn
Unlife of the Party
Jaya Ballard, Discard Mage
Zedruu and the Minotaurs
Vish Kal's ManSlaughterhouse
Izzet Any Good?

Chorus of Counters


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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-07 5:00 am 
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Joined: 2013-Nov-04 2:12 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Northamptonshire, UK
It's been a while since I last looked at this deck, but seeing as I'm planning on finally putting it together and sleeving it all up I thought I'd spend some time tuning the list. Please let me know what you think.

_________________
Regards,
MT.


Putrid Pirate Proliferation
Lord of Voltronhorn
Unlife of the Party
Jaya Ballard, Discard Mage
Zedruu and the Minotaurs
Vish Kal's ManSlaughterhouse
Izzet Any Good?

Chorus of Counters


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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-07 6:17 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
I think it needs more Sun Titan. Karametra, is another possibility.

Bramblewood Paragon. The mini-me Crowned Ceretok.

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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-08 12:21 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Every time I see a deck with +1/+1 counters I think of Mindless Automaton. I second the motion to add Sun Titan. I don't like to play white personally, but that card gets me all worked up.

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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-08 4:16 am 
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Joined: 2013-Nov-04 2:12 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Northamptonshire, UK
Karametra is certainly a good idea. My only copy is currently planned to go in my Cromaticore deck (which probably needs the mana fixing more than this one does) but I might switch it into this one as it's a good fit.

The Sun Titan is a little more expensive than I'd planned but it's certainly within budget. It really does seem like a good creature (I only picked the game up again during the M13 release so I wasn't around for the Titans) so I reckon it'll probably be a good investment for the deck.

Bramblewood Paragon may also make it in; it would be nice if there were more creatures that had a similar sort of ability. Wait a tick... just did a Gatherer search and came up with the following list of pretty decent things that might well go in the deck:

Bramblewood Paragon (of course, seeing as it was suggested to me),
Cenn's Tactician (with this in the deck, maybe I can cut one or two of the cards put in solely for defence),
Cytoplast Root-Kin (perhaps something of a win-more card, but it does give me the option to move my counters around),
Fungal Behemoth (why did I not know of this card before now? This is basically the perfect fit for this deck), and,
Kalonian Hydra (again, a good fit but this might be out of my price range. Maybe it will go down after rotation in September).

Mindless Automaton would certainly give me some card draw that's not only on theme but also well within the capabilities of being abused in this deck. Etched Oracle could do the same but that would take a little bit more work to pull off, seeing as it requires more counters to be removed and doesn't start with enough counters from the get go.

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll certainly take it to heart :D

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MT.


Putrid Pirate Proliferation
Lord of Voltronhorn
Unlife of the Party
Jaya Ballard, Discard Mage
Zedruu and the Minotaurs
Vish Kal's ManSlaughterhouse
Izzet Any Good?

Chorus of Counters


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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-10 10:38 pm 
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Age: Dragon
Location: Northamptonshire, UK
Deck updated again. I'm pretty happy with where it is now, but if there are any glaring holes then please feel free to point them out.

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Regards,
MT.


Putrid Pirate Proliferation
Lord of Voltronhorn
Unlife of the Party
Jaya Ballard, Discard Mage
Zedruu and the Minotaurs
Vish Kal's ManSlaughterhouse
Izzet Any Good?

Chorus of Counters


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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-10 11:14 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Strength of the Tajuru is a powerful and on-theme pump.

Forgotten Ancient - I can't remember if he was in your original list, but it's strong on its own and can do some silly things with your general. For example, you can play your general, then cast this thing for a bunch of mana, and pile counters on it, which you can then move to a creature you had played earlier on your next upkeep.

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"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Now presenting: the Chorus of Counters
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-11 11:07 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-02 5:25 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Costa La Haya, capital del ducado Holanda
Masked Thespian wrote:
but if there are any glaring holes then please feel free to point them out.


I came across Hunt the Weak and Mutant's Prey, and figured they'd fit into your deck. However, I see you've already pulled them out of your deck. It's pseudo-removal, and if there's a glaring hole in your deck then I guess that's a lack of good removal.

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