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 Post subject: Sidisi Dredge (formerly Vorosh the Dredge Hunter)
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-17 2:37 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
This originally started out as a BUG reanimator/dredge build with Vorosh, and morphed into Sidisi as soon as KTK came out.

Creatures
Deathrite Shaman
Birds of Paradise
Gravecrawler
Reassembling Skeleton
Scavenging Ooze
Golgari Thug
Llanowar Dead
Blood Artist
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Satyr Wayfinder
Urborg Elf
Viridian Emissary
Wood Sage
Diregraf Captain
Eternal Witness
Fleshbag Marauder
Nighthowler
Reclamation Sage
Shambling Shell
Stinkweed Imp
Sylvok Replica
Wood Elves
Farhaven Elf
Yavimaya Dryad
Wonder
Vengeful Dead
Filth
Phyrexian Metamorph
Glen Elendra Archmage
Falkenrath Noble
Golgari Grave-Troll
Acidic Slime
Body Double
Corpse Connoisseur
Havengul Lich
Mulldrifter
Phyrexian Delver
Shriekmaw
The Mimeoplasm
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Sadistic Hypnotist
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Twisted Abomination
Elvish Aberration

Not Creatures
Tortured Existence
Oversold Cemetery
Tombstone Stairwell
Crucible of World
Altar of Dementia
Skullclamp
Mesmeric Orb
Dread Return
Buried Alive
Jace, Memory Adept
Darkblast
Entomb
Intuition
Living Death
Life from the Loam

Lands
City of Brass
Opulent Palace
Volrath's Stronghold
Unholy Grotto
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Dakmor Salvage
Phyrexian Tower
Creeping Tar Pit
Breeding Pool
Overgrown Tomb
Watery Grave
Tainted Wood
Tainted Isle
Llanowar Wastes
Yavimaya Coast
Underground River
Hinterland Harbor
Woodland Cemetery
Drowned Catacomb
Command Tower
Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
Nephalia Drownyard
Golgari Rot Farm
Simic Growth Chamber
Dimir Aqueduct
Bojuka Bog
+basics

old stuff
A quick note on the general: I don't like running the other BUG legends. I tried Damia for a while, and she was a lightning rod for hate. The Mimeoplasm works fine in the deck, I just don't think like it as general. If the deck's dredging along nicely, I don't really need it, and if the deck's not dredging (or I'm trapped under a Rest in Peace), it doesn't help me. Meanwhile, Vorosh is a reliable face-puncher, and for some reason the rest of my group's less afraid of him than Damia.

General: Vorosh, the Hunter

Current:

Spells
Grisly Salvage
Moment's Peace
Mulch
Tracker's Instinct
Commune with the Gods
Life from the Loam
Buried Alive
Increasing Savagery
Sever the Bloodline
Dread Return
Living Death
Increasing Ambition
Creeping Renaissance

Enchants
Greater Good
Tortured Existence
Deadbridge Chant
Mortal Combat
Oversold Cemetery

Creatures
Drowned Rusalka
Viridian Emissary
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Fauna Shaman
Silverglade Pathfinder
Golgari Thug
Nighthowler
Stinkweed Imp
Farhaven Elf
Sylvok Replica
Wood Elves
Shambling Shell
Fertilid
Eternal Witness
Fleshbag Marauder
Graveborn Muse
Oracle of Mul Daya
Wonder
Disciple of Bolas
Wickerbough Elder
Mortivore
Solemn Simulacrum
Spike Weaver
Shriekmaw
Acidic Slime
Phyrexian Delver
The Mimeoplasm
Mulldrifter
Body Double
Golgari Grave-Troll
Genesis
Pharika's Mender
Woodfall Primus
Havoc Demon
Necropolis Regent
Krosan Tusker
Twisted Abomination
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Elvish Aberration
Massacre Wurm
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Butcher of Malakir
Artisan of Kozilek
It That Betrays

Lands
Overgrown Tomb
Watery Grave
Breeding Pool
Hinterland Harbor
Woodland Cemetery
Drowned Catacomb
Dimir Aqueduct
Simic Growth Chamber
Golgari Rot Farm
Yavimaya Coast
Underground River
Llanowar Wastes
Tainted Isle
Tainted Wood
Dakmor Salvage
Creeping Tar Pit
Bojuka Bog
Command Tower
Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
Miren, the Moaning Well
Nephalia Drownyard
Rogue's Passage
Phyrexian Tower
2 Island
9 Forest
3 Swamp


Critters (43)
Starved Rusalka
Lotleth Troll
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Viridian Emissary
Silverglade Pathfinder
Golgari Thug
Somberwald Sage
Sylvok Replica
Stinkweed Imp
Fleshbag Marauder
Shambling Shell
Farhaven Elf
Wood Elves
Fertilid
Eternal Witness
Solemn Simulacrum
Phyrexian Metamorph
Clone
Wonder
Fathom Mage
Corpsejack Menace
Oracle of Mul Daya
Wickerbough Elder
Graveborn Muse
Disciple of Bolas
Mortivore
Acidic Slime
Body Double
Genesis
Golgari Grave-Troll
Phyrexian Delver
Shriekmaw
The Mimeoplasm
Elvish Aberration
Necropolis Regent
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Krosan Tusker
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Havoc Demon
Butcher of Malakir
Woodfall Primus
Artisan of Kozilek
It That Betrays

Spells (14)
Drown in Filth
Tracker's Instincts
Mulch
Buried Alive
Dread Return
Living Death
Grizzly Fate
Creeping Renaissance
Spider Spawning
Increasing Ambition
Increasing Savagery
Life from the Loam
Moment's Peace
Grisly Salvage

Artifacts/Enchants (5)
Oversold Cemetery
Greater Good
Loxodon Warhammer
Lightning Greaves
Swiftfoot Boots

Lands (37)
Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
Rogue's Passage
Miren, the Moaning Well
Phyrexian Tower
Alchemist's Refuge
Nephalia Drownyard
Watery Grave
Breeding Pool
Overgrown Tomb
Llanowar Wastes
Yavimaya Coast
Underground River
Tainted Isle
Command Tower
Drowned Catacomb
Hinterland Harbor
Woodland Cemetery
Creeping Tar Pit
Dakmor Salvage
Bojuka Bog
Halimar Depths
Golgari Rot Farm
Dimir Aqueduct
Simic Growth Chamber
+basics


Cuts/adds (current as of 6/4/13)

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Last edited by Kemev on 2015-Sep-22 5:54 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-17 4:20 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
I found that dredge in commander was all about getting a dredger in the yard. Some cards are more efficient at others, but I think you're on the right track.

Cards you can get mileage out of:
Oath of ghouls - You'll probably always have the most corpses around, and it's a second Oversold.
Forbidden Alchemy - Much like Trackers Instincts which is already in your list, but instant, and you can dig for anything. Flashback cost is lousier, but, it's still worth running.
Hermit Druid - You're running like 18 basics; don't worry, it's legit.
Fauna Shaman - If you have qualms about Survival of the Fittest, this guy is pretty vulnerable and not nearly as broken while giving the same goodness.
Entomb - If you've got a PDS Graveborn kicking around, these are easy to find.
Phyrexian Arena - Dredging faster or drawing faster, either way you're doing well.

Maybepile:
Mulch - This one is great if you're basic land count is higher; like into the 20+ range, preferably around 25-30.
Bog Witch - Yeah, it's a dark ritual spellshaper. I found it was great for putting a dredger down while getting potent acceleration in return.
Silverglade Pathfinder - The Rampant Growth spellshaper, she can bury a dredger while ramping your mana.
Dreamscape Artist - The Harrow spellshaper, pretty much like the other spellshapers.
Trade Routes - A kind of a weak combo card with Dakmor Salvage, you can pay one, discarding Dakmor Salvage to draw a card (which is inevitably Dakmor Salvage with a dredge of 2 attached). Kind of risky if you see mindslaver, ever. Potent with Bojuka Bog for graveyard hate.

Things you could cut:
Increasing Ambition - I loved this card too. 5 mana for a tutor is not on par. 8 mana for a double tutor doesn't usually happen.
Glistening Oil - What is this really doing for you? Other than making Vorosh lethal after the first swing?
Asceticism - Not usually worth the cost.
Sylvok Replica - You've got Wickerbough Elder, Acidic Slime, Woodfall Primus and Sylvan Primordial already...
Sachi - I'm not seeing a lot of shamans here.
Phyrexian Delver - This guy is not really worth his cost. You never really want to lose 6-8 life after paying 5 mana to reanimate something.

You're quite creature heavy, all things told.

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-18 8:06 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Oddly enough, I just cut Phyrexian Arena and swapped Forbidden Alchemy out for Increasing Ambition. Arena's not bad, but I'm trying out Fathom Mage in its spot. Alchemy's a handy cantrip early on, but most of the time it ended up in the GY, where Increasing Ambition is better on the flashback. And you know Mulch puts any land card into your hand right, not just basics?

To the chopping block:
Sachi
Sylvok Replica
Asceticism
Sylvan Primordial
Diluvian Primordial

What else?

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-18 8:09 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Replica is actually fine. I would cut Primus before I cut Replica simply because the latter is cheap and works well with the deck's themes, while the former is Yet Another Burly Monstrosity.

In addition to Oath, I would recommend Tortured Existence and Oversold Cemetery: both are important for recurring your guys, although I guess Cemetery is pricey now (Existence is a common). The lack of Havengul Lich is also surprising to me.

Birthing Pod is pretty good in this style of deck, especially given your current curve.

Spider Spawning is a reasonable backup Worm Harvest. If you run Riftsweeper, you can also flash it back without fear.

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Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-18 9:57 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Kemev wrote:
And you know Mulch puts any land card into your hand right, not just basics?

Major derpology on my part there. Worst part is, I shoukd know; I have played it (properly, picking up non-basics) extensively for a long time (my copies are from Stronghold, and I recall opening them in packs).

Edit: Good points on the cards with more realistic flashback costs.

As for more cuts; do you find Butcher of Malakir, Elvish Aberration and/or Twisted Abomination working well for you?

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-21 1:05 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
These are all good suggestions for additions; still needs cuts though.

Sinis wrote:
As for more cuts; do you find Butcher of Malakir, Elvish Aberration and/or Twisted Abomination working well for you?


Butcher of Malakir's usually good, especially alongside one of the repeatable sac outlets like Phyrexian Tower or Shambling Shell. Elvish Aberration ramps from 6 to Eldrazi, which is usually ok.

Maybe it's time for Twisted Abomination to go.

I think I'm gonna replace Sol Ring with Mulch.

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-Apr-22 2:45 am 

Joined: 2013-Mar-13 6:07 am
Age: Drake
You have such a high creature count, how about some enchantments to manipulate that.

Survival of the fittest

Lurking Predators

Call of the Wild

Primitive Etchings


Just thinking since you have such a high concentration of creatures some non aura/equipment enchantments may help.


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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-May-23 3:52 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
The enchantments were reasonable suggestions (although Survival's probably not something I'd play); still trying to find that Deadbridge Chant though, since I'm pretty sure that's the one I'd really want, and I don't really have space for more enchantments.

Updates:

I still haven't found a Deadbridge Chant yet; the only people with it in their binders were demanding full-freight, SCG value for it, and I'm not giving up $5 for a card that'll be worth .75 in a couple months. I also realized Master Biomancer would be really good here, but same problem. And I can't find Spike Weaver at all :(

I cleaned up the lands a bunch with Yavimaya Coast, Nephalia Drownyard, Tainted Isle, Watery Grave, Hinterland Harbor. I had all these already, was being lazy about getting them in the deck. Don't own any Breeding Pools, which would be the obvious next addition.

A few other changes...

-Wall of Roots, +Silverglade Pathfinder
-Sol Ring, +Mulch
-Glistening Oil (acheivement unlocked: terrified unsuspecting rubes with a forgotten card!), +Golgari Thug

Pretty straightforward; the Pathfinder and Mulch are functionally similar, since they're for helping my mana, but a little stronger overall since they turn on my graveyard. Glistening Oil is great! It's terribly underplayed, and terrifying for opponents! But it's not for this deck.

In no particular order, -Primordials, -Sachi, -Asceticism, -Twisted Abomination, +Oversold Cemetary, +Spider Spawning, +Body Double, +Moment's Piece, +Starved Rusalka*

This is most based on the feedback from above. Super excited to have a new Body Double (it's always been a pet card, unfortunately I traded all of mine off a few years back, and this is the first EDH deck I've built where it's a good fit). I'm still stuck on Sylvok Replica vs. Woodfall Primus; there were good arguments for both, so I just kept both.

-Memory's Journey, +Drown in Filth
-Massacre Wurm, +Grizzly Fate

These changes I'm not too sure about, so I'd appreciate any insights. Memory's Journey seems like it should be good, but I haven't used it even when it's been available. Drown was great in limited (I hilarious murdered a Mirko Vosk with it), I'm not sure how it'll work in EDH. With Massacre Wurm, I realized that I don't want it in the same deck with Spider Spawning. It's a painful cut since besides killing people, I don't have a lot of sweepers. My usual go to is Reiver Demon, which doesn't work as well in a GY deck. Any thoughts?

*Starved Rusalka is on rotation with Tormented Existence. I haven't figured out which one is a better fit. The Rusalka is a handy sac outlet in addition to a discard outlet, but it's very fragile and the deck is limited on blue mana. Tormented Existence is easier to activate, but it's not a creature, and that's a big liability in my book.

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-May-23 4:56 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
There's just no reason to run Drown when you're not already running Attrition, Putrefy, Pernicious Deed, Maelstrom Pulse...hell, I'd run Murder over it simply because Murder always hits.

Likewise, swapping Wurm for Fate cannot be right. Wurm shuts down opposing sacrifice shenanigans at a bare minimum and can turn Wraths into huge bummers for other people. Fate...makes some Bears which will promptly be irrelevant in combat because you don't have enough of them and they aren't big enough. I mean, I could maybe see Crush of Wurms...but not Fate. Why do you not want it in the same deck as Spawning? Wurm only affects opponents.

It's worth noting that Keiga, the Tide Star benefits enormously in this deck from the upcoming legend rules change. Keiga + Clone effect + Cemetery, Genesis, or really any way to recur creatures lets you steal something every turn. A sufficiently cheap clone (say, Phantasmal Image) and Havengul Lich lets you steal multiple things per turn.

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Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-May-23 5:44 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Deed would be a much better fit, unfortunately it's out of my price range. I thought Attrition would be really good, but there was always some issue when I ran it in the original build. Either I dredged it and didn't want to recur it, or I wanted to kill something black, or I didn't have enough fodder, or it just made more sense to smash the problem creature's owner into oblivion. Likewise with the instant removal; either they were in the yard at inopportune times, or they didn't generate enough value, or they were the wrong tool at the time.

For Drown, I think I'll always get something useful out of it. The mill 4 is always handy, killing a Lotus Cobra will be fine early game, and the potential to off Avacyn or something will be good late game.

Aggro_zombies wrote:
Why do you not want it in the same deck as Spawning? Wurm only affects opponents.


Because Bribery and Beacon of Unrest are cards I see reasonably often, and I'd prefer not to get drained for 40 after casting Spider Spawning. Grizzly Fate is definitely a silly card; it'll probably become Deadbridge Chant once I can make a reasonable trade.

Aggro_zombies wrote:
It's worth noting that Keiga, the Tide Star benefits enormously in this deck from the upcoming legend rules change. Keiga + Clone effect + Cemetery, Genesis, or really any way to recur creatures lets you steal something every turn. A sufficiently cheap clone (say, Phantasmal Image) and Havengul Lich lets you steal multiple things per turn.


Good point on Keiga! And I did get the memo on Havengul Lich... he'd definitely be great, but he's in my Wrexial deck and I don't want duplicates.

Any opinion on Drowned Rusalka vs Tormented Existence?

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-May-23 6:02 pm 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Kemev wrote:
Any opinion on Drowned Rusalka vs Tormented Existence?

They're different cards that fulfill different roles. To be honest, I'd run both if I could.

Rusalka enables extra, instant-speed dredges. Existence lets you cash in a dredger for a dredged guy. They're superficially similar, but different facets of the overall dredge engine.

I guess it comes down to whether you feel you have enough recursion. If you do, run Rusalka; otherwise, run Existence.

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kaldare wrote:
Printing generically and boringly powerful cards obviously intended for commander does the format zero favors.

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-May-28 4:18 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Ok, played a few more games, and traded for a Breeding Pool...

I'm going to need more removal of some sort; I keep getting owned by Deathrite Shaman. And we started tracking when the new legends rules would matter... one of my buddies playing Wrexial managed to get Havengul Lich set up with Clone and Phantasmal Image in his 'yard, and cloned someone else's Kokusho. It woulda been gruesome with the new M14 rules :(

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-May-28 11:03 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Feb-07 4:15 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
More removal, you say?

Bone Shredder: Cheap targetted removal that kills itself so you can recur it.
Slum Reaper: Fleshbag Marauder's big brother.
Damnation: Overpriced, but still damn good in EDH.
Black Sun's Zenith: My personal favorite mass removal spell (except Massacre Wurm)

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-Jun-19 8:51 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
I'm feeling let down with my token producers; Worm Harvest is too slow to make an impact, and it's kinda awkward with Oracle of Muldaya + Life from the Loam. And Spider Spawning is fun, but I don't have enough team pump effects to make the spiders any good.

I already pulled out Worm Harvest for Somberwald Sage... Spider Spawning might tag out for Massacre Wurm to come back in.

The other two removal cards I'm thinking about are Sever the Bloodline (it's fine to dredge and it seems good with the new legend rules), and Dimir Charm (swats Deathrite Shaman, counters Insurrection). Any thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Vorosh the Dredge Hunter
AgePosted: 2013-Dec-31 5:37 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
Bumpity bump.

I think this is the final draft of this deck... it's too 2013. I think the dredge part's going to turn into Jarad, and The Mimeoplasm's gonna be my new BUG commander.

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