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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-Jan-22 11:09 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
OH man! No more Lyzolda?!

The red cards I like are:

faithless looting
vicious shadows
mana echoes
purphoros, god of the forge
keldon firebombers
kher keep
wheel of fortune
goblin bombardment

I literally use no other red cards. But these are pretty good! I think missing out on purphoros is a serious restriction. But I guess you can go infinite pretty easy with endrek sahr and your sac outlets, right?

Some questions:

why no dredger? golgari thug is an MVP for me. Also he gets you any dude from your yard onto your library.

Where's the fun, black, kill-yourself stuff? Particularly, I like carnival of souls. That usually results in a win, but, perhaps mostly with purphoros or viscious shadows in play; so maybe less reliable in your build. I think with all your lifegain, I'd run Lich! That needs to be in SOME deck, for goodness sake. Note you can't sac tokens to Lich's drawback, which sucks. Although lich makes you immune to loss-of-life effects, such as dark prophecy and carnival of souls, which is awesome. Actually, on closer inspection, the amount of lifegain you run is very high (man, plunge into darkness is a huge winner with Lich), and the amount of cards you have with a drawback of "lose x life" is also very high... I'd seriously consider Lich here for the huge fun potential. If you're worried about losing the game, you could add platinum angel - it seems possible you could animate it instant-speed in response to someone killing your Lich.

Also, have you tried:

pack rat
gray merchant of asphodel
abhorrent overlord
?

they're on my short list to get some experience with in actual games. Cause they look pretty neat on paper.

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-Jan-25 9:35 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
mmcgeach wrote:
OH man! No more Lyzolda?!


Yeah.. sorry :). I love Lyzolda, but in the end she did not do enough for me, where Endrek was a card I almost always wanted to draw.

mmcgeach wrote:
The red cards I like are:

faithless looting
vicious shadows
mana echoes
purphoros, god of the forge
keldon firebombers
kher keep
wheel of fortune
goblin bombardment

I literally use no other red cards. But these are pretty good! I think missing out on purphoros is a serious restriction. But I guess you can go infinite pretty easy with endrek sahr and your sac outlets, right?


I think that's more or less the same amount of cards I had. Purphoros was not in my list, but that might have been an oversight. You're right that the red cards were very good, but after going back and forth I decided I did not need them.

Endrek is quite easy to go infinite with, but I try not to. I did add Phyrexian Altar, a card I took out before because of how easy it was to go infinite with. Often, I can go semi-infinite with Endrek, which is much more interesting than actual infinite and less hated.

mmcgeach wrote:
Some questions:

why no dredger? golgari thug is an MVP for me. Also he gets you any dude from your yard onto your library.


Haven't needed to stuff my graveyard too much. The deck uses the graveyard, but not to the point where I want to go overboard. I'm scared to expose myself too much and rather play the waiting game. I might add him once my Xiahou Dun arrives in the mail.

mmcgeach wrote:
Where's the fun, black, kill-yourself stuff? Particularly, I like carnival of souls. That usually results in a win, but, perhaps mostly with purphoros or viscious shadows in play; so maybe less reliable in your build. I think with all your lifegain, I'd run Lich! That needs to be in SOME deck, for goodness sake. Note you can't sac tokens to Lich's drawback, which sucks. Although lich makes you immune to loss-of-life effects, such as dark prophecy and carnival of souls, which is awesome. Actually, on closer inspection, the amount of lifegain you run is very high (man, plunge into darkness is a huge winner with Lich), and the amount of cards you have with a drawback of "lose x life" is also very high... I'd seriously consider Lich here for the huge fun potential. If you're worried about losing the game, you could add platinum angel - it seems possible you could animate it instant-speed in response to someone killing your Lich.


Honestly? I killed myself a couple of times with Carnival. Granted, I might've timed it wrongly, but the deck can burn itself very easily as is already. I guess Carnival is also a little better with Lyzolda than with Endrek, because Lyzolda really needs the extra mana for her activation, where Endrek doesn't always need it.

Lich, while very awesome, is too scary. So far I've not had any trouble drawing cards (I even removed Necropotence, which might come back in the future).

mmcgeach wrote:
Also, have you tried:

pack rat
gray merchant of asphodel
abhorrent overlord
?

they're on my short list to get some experience with in actual games. Cause they look pretty neat on paper.


Haven't tried any of those. Pack Rat is not something I'm eager to try, for some reason it looks costly for what it can give me. 3 Mana and a card for 1 token is meh. Merchant sounds nice, maybe if I need something that can finish out games for me I'll add it. Abhorrent Overlord is in a weird spot for Endrek decks: it costs 7 mana. Butcher of Malakir is the only creature (I think) I'm currently running that costs more than 6 mana, and that is because it synergizes so well with the deck. Even then, it creates awkward moments where I have to choose between keeping Endrek around or casting it. Obviously it's never coming out (also because I have a Chinese foil version), but more 7 drops is not something I'm too keen on.

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-08 8:20 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Phyrexian Ghoul OUT > Dictate of Erebos IN

I haven't been this excited for EDH when a card came out for a while now. Grave Pact is easily one of the better cards in the deck. It is another 5 mana card, but Dictate should be awesome.

Sad to see Phyrexian Ghoul leave, but it was a) not foil, b) underperforming, c) the same as Nantuko Husk aka boring. We'll have to see if removing a sac outlet from the deck hurts it and if my zombie count is still high enough. If no to either, I might just remove the Ritual of the Machine. Card is very very fun, but sits in my hand a lot of the time because it has a serious targeting restriction and with Dictate coming in creatures will die a lot more too.

---

Checking back a couple of posts, is there anyone with feedback on Gray Merchant of Asphodel in decks like this? I can see it being very good. I mean, I don't have to many non-permanents in the deck anyway. And I can recur it easily.

Thinking about that, why don't I run Kokusho...

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-13 5:13 am 

Joined: 2008-Mar-25 11:20 am
Age: Wyvern
hi

i hope i can help.
i play endrek for almost 2 (3???) years now.
i love this deck for some reasons:
-i was looking in my crap binder and saw endrek... oh a new general. oh it's shitty... challenge accepted!
-it's so fun to play
-it has a lot of great synergies
-it's cheap to build
-it's soooo cheap thal mine in full foil (for what exists in foil of course!)

that's what i'm currently playing

// FORMAT : Commander
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 City of Shadows
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Unholy Grotto
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
30 Swamp
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Blood Artist
1 Bloodflow Connoisseur
1 Bloodthrone Vampire
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Champion of Stray Souls
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Fallen Angel
1 Flesh-Eater Imp
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Gravecrawler
1 Krovikan Horror
1 Kuon, Ogre Ascendant
1 Mindslicer
1 Mortician Beetle
1 Nantuko Husk
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Phyrexian Ghoul
1 Phyrexian Plaguelord
1 Reaper from the Abyss
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Scavenger Drake
1 Shriekmaw
1 Skinrender
1 Vampire Aristocrat
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
1 Viscera Seer
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
1 Caged Sun
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Helm of Possession
1 Jar of Eyeballs
1 Jet Medallion
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Market
1 Blood Funnel
1 Dawn of the Dead
1 Grave Pact
1 Altar's Reap
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Ancient Craving
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Dread Return
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
SB: 1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder[/list]
visual list here


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-13 8:56 am 

Joined: 2014-Apr-04 9:18 am
Age: Drake
:shock:

The creative juices just started flowing...I LOVE the idea of using Endrek as a commander to make sacrificial thrulls!!!

When I get more time I'll delve into the meat of this thread, but I have a quick question...how do you get around Endrek having to sac himself once there are 7 thrulls on board? (in my magical Christmas land, I'd cap the creature curve @ 6)


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-13 10:50 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Conspiracy naming Brushwagg.


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-13 11:05 am 

Joined: 2014-Apr-04 9:18 am
Age: Drake
JJackson wrote:
Conspiracy naming Brushwagg.


:shock: :lol:

LOL, that's frickin hilarious.


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-13 11:20 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
I like Endrek in my Kresh deck. Combos nicely with all of the Devour creatures :)

Tar Fiend is the only mono-black creature, but would still be pretty sweet for your deck.

EDIT: Death Pit Offering and Bad Moon would be nice too.

_________________
My decks on Tappedout.net


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 3:09 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
@tomjulioo: Thanks for the list, it looks great! And I agree that it looks beautiful in foil ;) Also very fun to see a deck that probably plays out very similar in strategy, but is built differently.
I was wondering about some of your card choices.

How have City of Shadows and Krovikan Horror been working out for you? I cut both because they were generally too slow before they did anything. City was cut mostly because it has to exile creatures instead of sacrifice them. This is generally not a problem with the amount of token makers I run, but also means that the dying creature won't trigger any of the 'when put into a graveyard' triggers. Also it takes a while for it to actually generate advantage.

You have a big 'sacrifice to make bigger' package in Bloodflow Connoisseur, Bloodthrone Vampire, Flesh-Eater Imp, Vampire Aristocrat, Phyrexian Ghoul, Nantuko Husk, Fallen Angel and 'grow when something dies' in Scavenger Drake, Blade of the Bloodchief, Mortician Beetle.
First thing that came to mind was: where's Khabál Ghoul ;)? Second, how has this been working out? I've been steadily cutting these because there were mostly not threatening enough, or too threatening where I kept getting removal pointed my way.

What about Mindslicer, Sadistic Hypnotist and Braids, Cabal Minion. I cut these because people felt really bad losing to these. Is this a meta thing, or have your opponents generally been fine with these? ('cause they're really good)

There are a lot of cards in the deck that I purposely didn't include, but are definitely good, like extra tutors, general carddraw and mana doublers.

What would you say the best card out of your deck is that I don't run? Again, great deck!

--
mike44njdevils wrote:
:shock:

The creative juices just started flowing...I LOVE the idea of using Endrek as a commander to make sacrificial thrulls!!!

When I get more time I'll delve into the meat of this thread, but I have a quick question...how do you get around Endrek having to sac himself once there are 7 thrulls on board? (in my magical Christmas land, I'd cap the creature curve @ 6)


Do it! Endrek is very very fun to build and just looking at my and tomjulioo's list, you can see you can take it in more directions than one (albeit every one is obviously sacrifice-based).

Just make sure you have plenty sacrifice-outlets to go around. Basically, the deck always wants one to manage the amount of Thrulls you have. Another tip is indeed to not put too many 7-drops in the deck. I run 1: Butcher of Malakir, because it has soo much synergy with the deck. I think tomjulioo doesn't run any.

--
Superstrength79 wrote:
I like Endrek in my Kresh deck. Combos nicely with all of the Devour creatures :)

Tar Fiend is the only mono-black creature, but would still be pretty sweet for your deck.

EDIT: Death Pit Offering and Bad Moon would be nice too.


Endrek and Kresh are best buddies :)

Tar Fiend looks very good. Being a huge beater AND huge disruption is nice. BUT, I;m not sure if I want an effect like this in my deck. I used to have both Mindslicer and Sadistic Hypnotist in the deck, but cut them because I don't want to be too much of a jerk. The biggest weakness of the deck is opposing power plays. Generally, this deck has enough synergy that it can beat them, but if all arrows are pouting my direction, I'm not sure if it can.

Bad Moon is not the play style I'm looking for, but Death Pit Offering brings such a big pump that it just might. It's also one of my favorite cards from way back, so I think I'll try it out!

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-19 8:31 pm 

Joined: 2009-Nov-28 7:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
A few suggestions I didn't see on your list:

Mortician Beetle (auto-grows in sac wars)
Thoughtpicker Witch (For anti-SDT shenanigans)
Skirsdag High Priest, because I suspect things will be dying...
Nantuko Husk
Bloodflow Connoisseur
Bloodgift Demon (Phyrexian arena on a stick, or a late game ping)
Geth, Lord of the Vault (six mana, and I suspect there'll be dead things)
Fallen Ideal: Black's rancor gets no love, but this is the deck for it.

I suspect you need more draw. and more ways to deal with non-creature threats.


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-20 1:04 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
green slime wrote:
A few suggestions I didn't see on your list:

Mortician Beetle (auto-grows in sac wars)
Thoughtpicker Witch (For anti-SDT shenanigans)
Skirsdag High Priest, because I suspect things will be dying...
Nantuko Husk
Bloodflow Connoisseur
Bloodgift Demon (Phyrexian arena on a stick, or a late game ping)
Geth, Lord of the Vault (six mana, and I suspect there'll be dead things)
Fallen Ideal: Black's rancor gets no love, but this is the deck for it.

I suspect you need more draw. and more ways to deal with non-creature threats.


Thanks, those are some good suggestions.

When looking at the list, I would think I'd need card draw as well, but in practice I've not been needing any extra. The deck seems to draw plenty cards as is and with all the shenanigans it can do, my hand seems to always have cards in it.

You're right that the deck could use some non-creature removal, but I chose to not run any that's not on theme. I sacrificed (pun intended) the ability to deal with everything to have more synergy in the deck. Sadly, the colorless/black cards that deal with non-creature stuff also feels too much like good stuff that I didn't include it. So far so good. If something changes in the future, I'll certainly reconsider.

Mortician Beetle - Never really considered this one. I did have Scavenger Drake in the deck and cut it for being 'just' a beatstick. I'll reconsider both.
Thoughtpicker Witch - This is the next sac-outlet to go in.
Skirsdag High Priest - Yes! I totally forgot this card existed. This will probably go in before the Beetle and the Drake. It's fragile, but quite sweet when it gets online.
Nantuko Husk - Have it. I did just cut Phyrexian Ghoul.
Bloodflow Connoisseur - Good card, but I chose to run more controlly sac-outlets. If I want another of this effect, I think I'd include Phyrexian Ghoul. Not because it's better, but because it's a zombie. I do like this a lot better though..
Bloodgift Demon - Maybe instead of Phyrexian Arena? I don't want too much non-synergistic cards.
Geth, Lord of the Vault - Great card, I'll think about this. I do have a lot of 6-drops already and I really want to include Kokusho too...
Fallen Ideal: Nice. Could this be better then Fallen Angel?

--

On a sidenote, does anyone have experience with Bitter Ordeal? Card looks insane in this deck and it would help to mitigate the weakness to power plays a bit.

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-20 2:47 am 
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Joined: 2010-Dec-13 6:01 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Washington D.C.
Squirrely wrote:
Bad Moon is not the play style I'm looking for, but Death Pit Offering brings such a big pump that it just might. It's also one of my favorite cards from way back, so I think I'll try it out!

The nice thing about Death Pit Offering is that you don't need any creatures on the board to cast it :)

@Fallen Ideal - I can attest to this card being awesome. Again, I use it in Kresh (and my Savra deck too). Turns generals into flying aggro monsters as well as being a sacrifice outlet.

_________________
My decks on Tappedout.net


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-20 6:45 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
Squirrely wrote:
On a sidenote, does anyone have experience with Bitter Ordeal? Card looks insane in this deck and it would help to mitigate the weakness to power plays a bit.

I've played it in a Rakdos the Defiler deck where it typically is used with Gravestorm around 12-15 or so (barring Psychotic Fury shenanigans). It is obviously going to function differently in a deck with a completely different focus, but some comparison is better than none.

It is good at cementing a winning position. Because you can't affect hands with it, you can only prevent topdecks, but exiling 10 cards from people's libraries is enough to completely crap on the combo player, seriously reduce the number of sweepers that could come up, or possibly get rid of a category of hate card entirely (gy, artifact/enchantment, etc). If you fire it off with Gravestorm 20+ and have a winning board position, you can probably remove all sweepers from your opponents and put a serious dent in their number of ways to get back in the game.

That said, it is definitely an inherently win-more card, and it can be a real pain to resolve if you are determined to make the absolutely best decisions. If you're content to just grab someone's library, pull the 2 or 3 cards you definitely want to hit, and then start chucking things willy-nilly it can be fun, though.


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-20 7:33 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Superstrength79 wrote:
The nice thing about Death Pit Offering is that you don't need any creatures on the board to cast it :)

@Fallen Ideal - I can attest to this card being awesome. Again, I use it in Kresh (and my Savra deck too). Turns generals into flying aggro monsters as well as being a sacrifice outlet.


Allright, I'll try and find room for both (which is getting hard at this point...)


JJackson wrote:
Squirrely wrote:
On a sidenote, does anyone have experience with Bitter Ordeal? Card looks insane in this deck and it would help to mitigate the weakness to power plays a bit.

I've played it in a Rakdos the Defiler deck where it typically is used with Gravestorm around 12-15 or so (barring Psychotic Fury shenanigans). It is obviously going to function differently in a deck with a completely different focus, but some comparison is better than none.

It is good at cementing a winning position. Because you can't affect hands with it, you can only prevent topdecks, but exiling 10 cards from people's libraries is enough to completely crap on the combo player, seriously reduce the number of sweepers that could come up, or possibly get rid of a category of hate card entirely (gy, artifact/enchantment, etc). If you fire it off with Gravestorm 20+ and have a winning board position, you can probably remove all sweepers from your opponents and put a serious dent in their number of ways to get back in the game.

That said, it is definitely an inherently win-more card, and it can be a real pain to resolve if you are determined to make the absolutely best decisions. If you're content to just grab someone's library, pull the 2 or 3 cards you definitely want to hit, and then start chucking things willy-nilly it can be fun, though.


Yeah, getting a couple answers does seem great. I also like the tactic of hitting the opponent that has been attacking you for his best cards.

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-May-21 9:43 pm 

Joined: 2008-Mar-25 11:20 am
Age: Wyvern
@ Squirrely:
City of shadows is sometimes nice but rarely is... it's the next land i'll cut as soon as wotc prints a land that fits this deck. maybe i'll cut it before because early game, when your endrek engine is off, a basic swamp is way better...
krovikan horror is great! i can't understand you've cutted it! it's prodigal sorcerer under steroids. it can deal with blockers, with last life of opponents... one of the best cards in the deck IMO.

Khabal ghoul is in my binder! i cutted it to try something new long time ago and didn't feel the need to play it anymore. although it's a great card and you make me want to play it again. the problem of the card is that it grows at end of turn.
i love to have a big sacrifice package because it's the core of the deck (of my deck) maybe the deck would be stronger with something else but it's the way i like to play it.

braids, cabal minion is not a big problem for my opponents since if you want to keep it a few turns on the board, you need to prepare your board for it... and it takes time so your opponents ususlly have things to deal with it.
mindslicer and in a lesser way sadistic hypnotist can be more problematic but are not IMBA.

the best card you don't run is probably cloudstone curio: it's my pet card and i run it almost everywhere but here it's very strong. you can make tokens again and again, you can abuse some ETB effects. it's perfect here!


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