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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Jan-13 6:30 am 
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Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon
You control the Lifeline, so you get to decide what order its triggers go on the stack. It's triggering once for each creature that was in play, so put the triggers related to your opponents creatures on top and the ones for yours on the bottom. Let all your opponents triggers resolve first (no creatures in play so they do nothing) then activate your Reassembling Skeleton before yours do.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Jan-13 7:45 am 

Joined: 2011-Mar-02 8:37 am
Age: Drake
Ban Ki-moon wrote:
Anything else that's slipping my mind?

I haven't updated my Sek'Kuar deck (list) in a long time but here are a couple cards you might want to consider:
Momentous Fall
Mycoloth
Skullmulcher
Sylvok Replica

A couple other goodies I run in Savra (list):
Pawn of Ulamog
Gleancrawler
Quagmire Druid
Grim Backwoods

I like Hissing Iguanar and it's still in a couple decks that simply never got updated, but there's really no reason to run it with Blood Artist and Falkenrath Noble around. I don't play them, but Seedguide Ash and Far Wanderings can be pretty good mid-game ramp in a deck that likes to fill up its graveyard.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Jan-14 1:37 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
I thought I might also share my Lyzolda list. It's got a few different themes worked in here. Originally I wanted a deck that combined the most (ahem) fun (cough) elements of the game: discard and land destruction; but that was actually way less effective than I thought it might be. So only the good discard and LD remains.

sac outlets:
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch

skullclamp
fleshbag marauder
braids, cabal minion
gate to phyrexia

discard outlets:
bog witch
zombie infestation
bottomless pit
mindslicer
liliana of the veil

big game hunter

LD/Discard/sac outlets:
pox
death cloud

combo with pox/death cloud:
cryptborn horror

LD:
decree of annihilation
crucible of worlds
keldon firebombers

stuff to kill:
golgari thug
army of the damned
squee, goblin nabob
reassembling skeleton
murderous redcap
nether traitor
puppeteer clique
bloodghast
solemn simulacrum
sengir autocrat
endrek sahr, master breeder

reanimation:
sheoldred, whispering one
corpse connoisseur
mikaeus, the unhallowed
balthor the defiled
animate dead
buried alive
dread return
coffin queen
necromancy
cauldron of souls
hell's caretaker
victimize

demons:
blood speaker
extractor demon
bloodgift demon
rune-scarred demon
reaper from the abyss
minion of leshrac (sac outlet)

death benefits:
black market
blood artist
harvester of souls (demon)
grave pact
vicious shadows
butcher of malakir

utility:
demonic tutor
phyrexian arena
graveborn muse
viashino heretic

mass acceleration:
mana echoes
carnival of souls

ramp:
dark ritual
sol ring
mana vault
rakdos signet
fellwar stone
talisman of indulgence
chromatic lantern
darksteel ingot
coalition relic
worn powerstone

utility lands:
strip mine
wasteland
kher keep
crypt of agadeem
bojuka bog
buried ruin
rix maadi, dungeon palace

duals:
command tower
tainted peak
akoum refuge
tresserhorn sinks
auntie's hovel
badlands
graven cairns
shadowblood ridge
rakdos carnarium
bloodstained mire
dragonskull summit
lavaclaw reaches
urborg volcano

5 mountain
7 swamp

-----

From the original plan cards like pox and death cloud and keldon firebombers remain; those are insanely strong cards, with pox and death cloud pulling quadruple-duty as discard outlets, sac outlets, removal, and resource constraints. And dang, I've just loved pox since Ice Age, and don't get to profitably stick it in many decks.

Same with the discard package: only the best cards remain. Liliana is generically good; mindslicer is insanely powerful, and bottomless pit is pretty great too. Big game hunter works with this; and zombie infestation with graveborn muse can be pretty awesome. Zombie infestation with Mana Echoes is also pretty entertaining. One card that I might still want to find room for is painful quandary.

The demon package is kinda fun; but probably a little slow. But I just love tutoring for demons. I mean, how cool is that? Although, most of the demons you'd probably play anyway. Minion of Leshrac is another card I've loved since Ice Age, and was originally here because it fit with the land-destruction theme.

The deck is sort of light on removal and interaction; which is a consequence of me cramming in too many different themes and packages. So it plays sort of like a combo deck, building up to an insane turn with mana echoes or carnival of souls. But this is something I might want to pare down as I play this against varied opponents. Options or suggestions for more control and less combo would be welcome. :)

Also, thanks for this thread. It's been a really great resource for a fun archetype!

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Jan-14 3:10 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
mmcgeach wrote:
From the original plan cards like pox and death cloud and keldon firebombers remain; those are insanely strong cards, with pox and death cloud pulling quadruple-duty as discard outlets, sac outlets, removal, and resource constraints. And dang, I've just loved pox since Ice Age, and don't get to profitably stick it in many decks.

Same with the discard package: only the best cards remain. Liliana is generically good; mindslicer is insanely powerful, and bottomless pit is pretty great too. Big game hunter works with this; and zombie infestation with graveborn muse can be pretty awesome. Zombie infestation with Mana Echoes is also pretty entertaining. One card that I might still want to find room for is painful quandary.

The demon package is kinda fun; but probably a little slow. But I just love tutoring for demons. I mean, how cool is that? Although, most of the demons you'd probably play anyway. Minion of Leshrac is another card I've loved since Ice Age, and was originally here because it fit with the land-destruction theme.

The deck is sort of light on removal and interaction; which is a consequence of me cramming in too many different themes and packages. So it plays sort of like a combo deck, building up to an insane turn with mana echoes or carnival of souls. But this is something I might want to pare down as I play this against varied opponents. Options or suggestions for more control and less combo would be welcome. :)

Also, thanks for this thread. It's been a really great resource for a fun archetype!


Anytime :)

As much as I like Pox myself, I can't bring myzelf to play it in EDH. When I play EDH I like to do lots of stuff and I simply need mana for that. Also, my deck tends to work better the more mana I have to use, re-use, re-re-use and re-re-re-use my creatures so they're a not go for me in this deck. That, and I found that Braids and Decree of Annihalation piss people off, which is something I'm not looking to do. BUT, mad props for using Cryptborn Horror with Pox. Awesome.

There are, however, some cards in your deck I'm quite interested in:
- Army of the Damned
- Reaper from the Abyss
- Crypt of Agadeem

Army seems a bit expensive, but insanely fun. Reaper looks great. Crypt could be a potential mana explosion. How often do you get more than +1 mana from it (4 creatures in grave)?

I like your Demon package btw, it would take too many cards for me to incorporate it in my deck (I don't want to make too many cuts), but it looks like a lot of fun.

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Jan-14 7:48 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Squirrely wrote:
I think I'm going to try and find room for Conquering Manticore and Zealous Conscripts. Manticore used to be in the deck but somehow got cut. They're good removal though, and shenanigans with other people's stuff is fun. Faceless Butcher is nice too.


Apparently, my online (Cockatrice) version did still have Conquering Manticore in it, but for some reason I think I cut it in my paper version.

Anyhow, I just killed a player with an inprenetable boardstate (Kiki-Jiki, Avacyn, Adarkar Valkyrie, Linvala, Platinum Angel, Rune-Scarred Demon, Angel of Serenity, Rakdos 2 and some more goodies) by stealing his Platinum Angel and - with some help from Filth - deal him the last 4 damage. Granted, he could have killed all of us last turn by searching up Gisela and attacking us with the team, but still.

Conquering Manticore earned his keep for now and I'm going to try and locate a Zealous Conscripts and in the meantime try and find room for Faceless Butcher.

Oh, and this was also the first time Filth played a major part. Normally I don't attack people for the win :P

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Sep-30 8:01 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
I think it's high time for a Lyzolda update! Especially because she compares so favorably with that lame murder king guy from the new set. But there ARE a couple cool things from Theros and the M14 that have been or look like they should be really good!

adds:
death and benefits:
goblin bombardment
dark prophecy
disciple of bolas
falkenrath noble

Goblin bombardment is probably just too good not to have. Sometimes you need a sac outlet that doesn't cost mana. The new Dark Prophecy from M14 is utterly fantastic. Not only can it fuel a huge combo turn, but also gives you great board-wipe protection. The perfect EDH card, for this deck, I think. Lifeloss is becoming a problem, so both disciple and falkenrath noble are good for that. Also disciple of bolas is just about the best card draw mechanic for a reanimator deck. It draws cards, it kills one of your guys, you can then reanimate it - it's just insane. Like, if you have mikeaus out, kill your rune-scarred demon!

tokens
ogre slumlord
pawn of ulamog
grave titan

I haven't really liked ogre slumlord yet. I need to get more games with it in play. But pawn of ulamog becomes an MVP with something like carnival of souls in play. Also its ability to come down early and not look like much of a threat, and then make tokens while you do other things, and provide a mana ramp when you need it, makes it really indispensible. Grave titan went in (again) as something sort of beefy to provide additional board presence.

wipe recovery
sepulchral primordial
living death

These both recover from board wipes, which otherwise can really ruin your day. The primordial is just such a great after-wrath effect. I just hold it in my hand forever, waiting for wraths.

utility
shriekmaw
fleshwrither

Shriekmaw really is pretty neat since you can sac it with lyzolda in response to the evoke trigger. Fleshrither should be as good as it looks, but really hasn't been terrific for me yet.

draw and ramp
faithless looting
ambition's cost
ancient craving
gilded lotus
rakdos keyrune
2x swamp

So, I need more ramp and draw in order to make this somewhat viable. Faithless looting in particular seems like an egregious oversite for a reanimator deck. I also needed more lands that produced black and don't come into play tapped.

cuts:
braids, cabal minion
bottomless pit
liliana of the veil
big game hunter
cryptborn horror
decree of annihilation
crucible of worlds
squee, goblin nabob
murderous redcap
cauldron of souls
hell's caretaker
blood speaker
extractor demon
minion of leshrac
black market
viashino heretic
worn powerstone
buried ruin
rix maadi, dungeon palace
wasteland

Braids, even on say, turn 4, is too little too late. Other decks ramp out a ton of creatures and lands, making a one-per-turn sac pretty irrelevant. Bottomless pit and liliana were too small of effects for the deck. Big game hunter I sort of miss sometimes, but shriekmaw is probably better. Cryptborn horror was too conditional. Decree didn't seem like the right finisher anymore. Crucible wasn't really worth it without a dedicated land destruction package. Squee is also pretty conditional, and in general just too weak even when it does work. Murderous redcap is neat synnergistically, and is lame combo with mikaeus, but the effect is so small: a two-card combo that does 3 damage and cycles for 4RB: is this EDH? Cauldron of souls isn't as good as living death. Hell's caretaker always got killed before I could activate him. The blood speaker / demon package went out for more effective cards. Black market drew too much hate. Viashino heretic was too slow.


I'd also like to get some practice with these from Theros:
gray merchant of asphodel
abhorrent overlord, and of course,
purphoros, god of the forge.

And I've been thinking about finding a xiahou dun, the one-eyed for regrowing other cards.

But man, people say Purphoros is an MVP and it sure looks like it. I love trying out the new token producers and I think both the "devotion to black" cards will be good here... with stuff like dark prophecy and phyrexian arena, the devotion to black could be substantial. Looks like a fun set for R/B Reanimator!

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-01 8:25 pm 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Agreed! I was just looking into it this week (haven't decided on anything yet, though). I did put some thought into running Tymaret in the deck, but I think I'll pass.

ADDS
Look great. You'll like Goblin Bombardment and Falkenrath. They were (among) the reason(s) I built the deck and haven't disappointed me. Do you run Blood Artist as well?
Dark Prophecy was the first card in quite a while I was genuinely excited about, especially after Return to Ravnica didn't deliver for this style of Rakdos play. As soon as I locate a foil version, it's going in!
Disciple was not really on my radar. I dismissed it for doing too little in a deck with not too many fatties. But then again, even if he draws 2 or 3 cards, it's actually quite good.. I think I'll hunt one down.

TOKENS
I haven't really liked ogre slumlord yet. I need to get more games with it in play. But pawn of ulamog becomes an MVP with something like carnival of souls in play. Also its ability to come down early and not look like much of a threat, and then make tokens while you do other things, and provide a mana ramp when you need it, makes it really indispensible. Grave titan went in (again) as something sort of beefy to provide additional board presence.[/quote]

I've been wondering about Slumlord. It looks like it would be amazing in this kind of deck, for more or less the same reasons Pawn of Ulamog already is (although the mana and self-sacrifice are really nice). Come to think of it, I still haven't added Carnival of Souls yet..
Grave Titan is obviously a great card. I don't run it because I don't have it, and there's more interesting cards to get first :). But I have no doubt it would be great.

WIPE RECOVERY
Wait. You didn't run Living Death before? It's been an all-star in my deck. Even 'small' ones have won me the game before, saccing my 2-3 guys, wrathing the board and getting my own men back. Don't forget it's a board wipe itself too.
Sepulchral Primordial feels too good-stuff-y to me, and it doesn't get me my own cards back. So far, the deck hasn't felt weak to board wipes (at least not the wiping of creatures). It's an amazing card, though.

UTILITY
Shriekmaw = a boss. Fleshwrither has this annoying cause that you can only sac him as a sorcery. And he can only get 4cc creatures (although, after counting 9 in my own deck, that's more than I thought..). It's a fun enough tutor though. I think that if I wanted another tutor, I'd run Diabolic Intent first. Do you have Corpse Connoisseur?

DRAW AND RAMP
So, I need more ramp and draw in order to make this somewhat viable. Faithless looting in particular seems like an egregious oversite for a reanimator deck. I also needed more lands that produced black and don't come into play tapped.[quote="mmcgeach"]

Looks good. Especially Faithless Looting is a card that looks great. I wanted to shy away from too much mana ramp. It makes the deck go too big too fast sometimes, which is not what I wanted to do with it. However, the deck is awfully mana hungry, so I might cave in someday.

CUTS
All great cuts. The only 2 I'm not sure about are Murderous Redcap and Black Market. I do agree with your reasoning though, it's just that I like both of them to cut (for now). The fact that its effect is small is, for me, not a reason to cut it because that's what I set out to do with the deck. I wanted this deck to win with a lot of small effects, instead of a couple big ones. The biggest reason for me to cut Redcap is the combo with Mikaeus. In all other cases, I really like how it shoots down utility generals and regrows itself once for free. This makes it an invaluable tool in the turn you want to explode all over the table with saccing and recurring for lethal plinks from Blood Artists and such. The damage Redcap does can sometimes be the last couple in my case. Also, the fact that it's both red and black for Lyzolda is icing.
Black Market is indeed an enormous hate-magnet, but when people leave it alone it's soooo good. I'm on the fence about it, because it's so hit or miss in that regard. Also, I've been finding it a bit on the slow side. Five mana is a lot for this deck, because it means that I have to choose between casting this or saccing and recurring Reassembling Skeletons to Lyzolda. Especially in the early game (where it would be at its best), I often don't want to cast it because it will set me back too much if someone kills it. Still, I do have a foil one, and it's from Mercadian Masques, so it's staying for now. (Ah yes, the old foil argument. So useless, but so true)

THEROS+
Yeah, these were the cards a was looking at from Theros as well. Let me know how they fare! Purphoros in particular looks like it would be perfect for the way this deck likes to play.

Xiahou Dun looks good too, especially now that you added Living Death.

Also, I've been wondering about Rescue from the Underworld a bit. Victimize and Dread Return are all-stars for playing the dual role of sacrificing and recurring stuff. And this one is an instant. Five mana is a lot, though, but the effect could swing games when timed right. What do you think?

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-02 1:33 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Oh man. Discussion!

Squirrely wrote:
Do you run Blood Artist as well?

Definately.

Quote:
Dark Prophecy was the first card in quite a while I was genuinely excited about...

This card is insane. It's going to be a new black staple, I think. I mean, it's AMAZING here, but its also pretty awesome in pretty much any deck with creatures.

Quote:
Disciple was not really on my radar. I dismissed it for doing too little in a deck with not too many fatties.

It's another one of my favorites, which I now find myself putting in basically every deck. I do run a fair number of fatties.... Sheoldred, Mikaeus, Grave Titan, Reaper from the Abyss, Sepulchral Primordial. Rune-Scarred Demon, Harvester of Souls, Butcher of Malakir. I wanted more big dudes that affect the board state more, since so many of the topdecks in this deck can be so weak. Of these, Grave Titan and Reaper are the most marginal, but they still have synergy with the rest of the deck's plan.

Slumlord is a little weak somehow... I think it's overcosted. At 3 or 4 mana it'd be a lot better. I'll probably drop it for Abhorrent Overlord as soon as I get to it.

Quote:
Wait. You didn't run Living Death before?

Sorry! It was in another deck. But yeah, it really belongs here.

Quote:
Sepulchral Primordial feels too good-stuff-y to me, and it doesn't get me my own cards back. So far, the deck hasn't felt weak to board wipes (at least not the wiping of creatures). It's an amazing card, though.

It does get back THE BEST thing each other player had after a wipe. It's one of the cards that I included specifically to power-up the deck with one-card bombs (eg, see Living Death).

Quote:
Fleshwrither has this annoying cause that you can only sac him as a sorcery. And he can only get 4cc creatures (although, after counting 9 in my own deck, that's more than I thought..). It's a fun enough tutor though. I think that if I wanted another tutor, I'd run Diabolic Intent first. Do you have Corpse Connoisseur?

Yeah, fleshwrither might go soon. It's a lot of mana to play it and then transfigure it. Although if it's coming back into play off living death or Sheoldred, then that seems like an attractive prospect. Yeah, I run Corpse Connoisseur, and I guess that one's stronger than fleshwrither, but its close.

Quote:
Black Market is indeed an enormous hate-magnet, but when people leave it alone it's soooo good. I'm on the fence about it, because it's so hit or miss in that regard. Also, I've been finding it a bit on the slow side. Five mana is a lot for this deck, because it means that I have to choose between casting this or saccing and recurring Reassembling Skeletons to Lyzolda.

Maybe try carnival of souls in there for black market? My deck sort of builds toward huge turns fueled with mana echoes or carnival of souls. Both of which give you the mana NOW instead of later or never, like black market.

Quote:
Also, I've been wondering about Rescue from the Underworld a bit. Victimize and Dread Return are all-stars for playing the dual role of sacrificing and recurring stuff. And this one is an instant. Five mana is a lot, though, but the effect could swing games when timed right. What do you think?

Yeah! Its one I want to try. But, five mana! Also I might try rise of the dark realms. I sometimes end up with a lot of mana. And it seems awesome, even if you just sac all your stuff and get it back in the same turn.

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
Glint-Eye Nephilim (combat tricks, card draw, & creature pump)
Oloro Upkeep Tribal (enchantment-based control)
and more:Decklists


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-02 3:10 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Quote:
(on Disciple)It's another one of my favorites, which I now find myself putting in basically every deck. I do run a fair number of fatties.... Sheoldred, Mikaeus, Grave Titan, Reaper from the Abyss, Sepulchral Primordial. Rune-Scarred Demon, Harvester of Souls, Butcher of Malakir. I wanted more big dudes that affect the board state more, since so many of the topdecks in this deck can be so weak. Of these, Grave Titan and Reaper are the most marginal, but they still have synergy with the rest of the deck's plan.

Slumlord is a little weak somehow... I think it's overcosted. At 3 or 4 mana it'd be a lot better. I'll probably drop it for Abhorrent Overlord as soon as I get to it.


Of those fatties, I run only Dark Mike, Harvester of Souls and Butcher. But I run Stalking Vengeance, Flayer of the Hatebound (great to sac to Disciple!), Homura (great sac too!), Conquering Manticore (disposable as well, plus maybe sac a stolen fatty) and Mindslicer (oh boy). Most of them I don't want to sacrifice, but some I actively do. Also, with my 'growing zombies' (Carrion Feeder, Phyrexian Ghoul, Fallen Angel, Deathbringer Thoctar), Disciple looks quite good in my deck. Thanks!

Quote:
(on Sepulchral)It does get back THE BEST thing each other player had after a wipe. It's one of the cards that I included specifically to power-up the deck with one-card bombs (eg, see Living Death).

I know, but like I said, that is not a direction I specifically want to take the deck in. Living Death is too thematic to run and enables my small effects like nobody's business. This is also the reason I'm not touching Insurrection for example, while great for any deck with red and better in a deck with sac outlets.

Quote:
Yeah, fleshwrither might go soon. It's a lot of mana to play it and then transfigure it. Although if it's coming back into play off living death or Sheoldred, then that seems like an attractive prospect. Yeah, I run Corpse Connoisseur, and I guess that one's stronger than fleshwrither, but its close.


I don't think it's that close. Corpse Connoisseur gets me the most important cards in my deck: Bloodghast and friends. AND leaves a body. AND comes back for more.

Quote:
Maybe try carnival of souls in there for black market? My deck sort of builds toward huge turns fueled with mana echoes or carnival of souls. Both of which give you the mana NOW instead of later or never, like black market.


Maybe. Mana Echoes is great to consider as well.

Quote:
(on Rescue from the Underworld) Yeah! Its one I want to try. But, five mana! Also I might try rise of the dark realms. I sometimes end up with a lot of mana. And it seems awesome, even if you just sac all your stuff and get it back in the same turn.


Rise indeed seems awesome. But if 5 mana scares you, 9 should be even worse. I think that if I want a gamewinner in the deck, it might be this one. It's so flavorful!

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-02 4:28 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
You know, Fallen Angel with Disciple of Bolas is an amazing combo that I never considered. You could draw a pretty large amount of cards! :)

I'm not real high on either corpse connoisseur or fleshwrither, I think about taking them both out sort of frequently. Although, ironically, I keep thinking I should drop fleshwrither for xiahou dun, except that xiahou dun costs 4... (pause)... and it seems like I'm losing a great opportunity for synergy. :/

I meant 5 mana is a lot to hold up for an instant like rescue from the underworld, waiting to blow it at the right time. There's also that 3-mana instant where you put any creature that was just killed into play (Grim Return). Rescue is probably worth testing, tho. It lets you do a 2-for-1 with your ETB triggers and includes a timing mechanism we haven't seen on a reanimation card before, bringing them back on your next upkeep. I guess the right play is to wait for the end step before your turn? If you're doing it for value. Or to do it in response to some kind of board wipe or targetted creature kill... avoiding a terminus, eg. But then saving 5 mana for that eventuality over the course of several turns seems unlikely.

_________________
Decklists:
Kothophed (mono black control, ETB abuse)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (blue pillowfort superfriends)
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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-02 6:39 am 
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Joined: 2011-Feb-07 3:37 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Danbury, CT
I wrote off Tymaret as being a worse version of Lyzolda, but I was re-reading this thread and wondering if I was wrong. Squirrely's list already has a pretty high number of zombies, and if you could flesh them out a bit more (mmmm, flesh), maybe a Tymaret deck could start to trip the major zombie synergy guys (like Graveborn Muse, Vengeful Dead, Noxious Ghoul).

You guys ever try any of the following in a Lyzolda deck...?

Anathemancer
Blood Scrivener
Geralf's Messenger
Gnawing Zombies
Phyrexian Delver
Pyre Zombie
Rakdos Guildmage

There are a couple other general utility zombies like Wight of Precinct Six or Withered Wretch that I like in a lot of different decks.

It also seems like there should be some shenanigans with Crypt Champion. It seems stupid with Ley Line in play if nothing else.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-02 9:15 pm 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Kemev wrote:
I wrote off Tymaret as being a worse version of Lyzolda, but I was re-reading this thread and wondering if I was wrong. Squirrely's list already has a pretty high number of zombies, and if you could flesh them out a bit more (mmmm, flesh), maybe a Tymaret deck could start to trip the major zombie synergy guys (like Graveborn Muse, Vengeful Dead, Noxious Ghoul).


Well, the fact that Tymaret is a Zombie is about the only thing he has going for him over Lyzolda I think. Drawing a card from sacrificing a black creature is better in my opinion than dealing 2, plus Lyzolda's ability cost 2 colorless. For a mostly black deck, that really matters. Still, he's not bad and should be fun to lead a Zombie Horde. The zombies you mention are great, I just went in a different direction with the deck.

Kemev wrote:
You guys ever try any of the following in a Lyzolda deck...?

Anathemancer
Blood Scrivener
Geralf's Messenger
Gnawing Zombies
Phyrexian Delver
Pyre Zombie
Rakdos Guildmage

There are a couple other general utility zombies like Wight of Precinct Six or Withered Wretch that I like in a lot of different decks.

It also seems like there should be some shenanigans with Crypt Champion. It seems stupid with Ley Line in play if nothing else.


Actually, I haven't tried any of them. I did consider Anathemancer and Geralf's Messenger for a bit, but went ahead and tried other cards first.
It's rare that I don't have cards in my hand for Blood Scrivener, because of Lyzolda's ability and general mana hungriness of the deck. Gnawing Zombie would be better if they didn't say 'target player' and maybe even worth the 2 mana per sac. Phyrexian Delver is interesting, 5 mana for 2 creatures is all right, especially if one is a good one from your graveyard. Pyre Zombie is a card I love, but is too slow if you want to recur it (6 mana for a buyback, only once a turn and only in upkeep. I'd rather have Squee in that case (I do have Squee, but he'll likely be cut). Rakdos Guildmage is nice utility, but doesn't interest me for this deck. Discarding a card is a steep cost and the fact that the tokens are red and exile at end of turn, means I can't sac 'em for cards and can't build up my board.

Withered Wretch, I do run, btw.


@ mmcgeach: wow, Rescue from the Underworld return next upkeep? Hmm.. I'm not sure I want it then..

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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-03 3:09 am 

Joined: 2013-Jan-07 1:45 am
Age: Dragon
Kemev wrote:

The only one I considered was Phyrexian Delver. But, I'm not sure it adds enough to the existing reanimation effects. I concur with squirrely that lyzolda decks draw a lot of cards, so blood scrivener isn't an exciting prospect. Most of these cards fall under the "too small of an effect" cards for me; I mean, I literally cut murderous redcap cause it didn't do enough to justify the synergy with lyzolda. So anything worse than murderous redcap really doesn't have a chance. That covers geralf's messenger, pyre zombie, and anathamancer. Rakdos guildmage is worse than bog witch and zombie infestation, my discard outlets. Gnawing zombie is (a lot) worse than blood artist and falkenrath noble. Wight of precinct six seems kind of interesting in a power-matters deck, maybe G/B with greater good and momentous fall. Withered wretch is a proven GY-champ, but one I haven't fit into this deck - i do run coffin queen, animate dead, necromancy, puppeteer clique, and sepulchral primordial. Crypt Champion seems like there's better targets in your opponents decks: wood elves, eternal witness, yavimaya elder, etc. (I'm sort of at a loss to think of a black/red 3-mana bomb on the order of those cards... maybe burnished hart?)

To retouch the alluded-to card draw, the card draw with Lyzolda is a big (and fun) reason to run this deck... the draw I run is: ancient craving, ambition's cost, promise of power, dark prophecy, phyrexian arena, bloodgift demon, graveborn muse, disciple of bolas, skullclamp, harvester of souls, faithless looting; plus anything that generates black tokens.

Tymaret himself is kind of interesting for a b/r sac target to lyzolda, except that he's worse than reassembling skeleton. I think you want to have your synergy engines be at least no worse than reassembling skeleton. Cause that's 4 mana to draw 1 card. Which is not great. Thats jayemdae tome-level of awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyzolda - Building a black/red(/x) sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2013-Oct-20 1:48 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
The sweet foil Dark Prophecy I ordered came in the mail today. Oh yeah!

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 Post subject: Re: ENDREK - Building a black sacrifice synergy deck
AgePosted: 2014-Jan-18 2:18 pm 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Alright, I did it. I cut all the red from the deck and pushed Endrek to commander.

Check out the new opening post, I updated it with the current list and the reason why I ditched red.

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