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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-18 9:43 pm 

Joined: 2008-Nov-25 3:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
pi wrote:
What would you replace with those? I think order / chaos is too narrow in that both options will let you do only 1 thing. Pure / simple i could play if only to annoy the zur player we often have who likes to play with a bunch of creature enchantments. However that is solved by mass removal as well (that is untill he discovers vanishing, but I don't think pure / simple will help there either).


I think chaos is the more appropriate mode for mayael. Shoving in 20+ power worth of dudes unhindered by chump blockers seems good to me.

_________________
1] Horde of Notions (Blink)
2] Teneb, The Harvester (Rock)
3] Isperia the Inscrutable (U/W Control)
4] Mayael the Anima (Fatties FTW!)
5] Omnath, Locus of Mana (Big Green Men)
6] Oros, The Avenger (Rock Burn)
7] Savra, Queen of the Golgari (Token Snack)
8] Rafiq of the Many (One Man, Alone)
9] Reaper King (Taste the EPIC!)
10] Uril, the Miststalker (Dark Rafiq)


I THINK in metaphors


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-20 12:57 am 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-26 7:50 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
Well, I am playing naya charm, which has a similar effect. I am dying to try it out, but the card has been in my deck for about half a year now and I just haven't ever been in a situation where I'd use it for that ability. I've used it plenty of times to good effect for it's other abilities, but I have not yet run into a situation where that 3rd ability was actually relevant. Either I am scrambling to keep up and going all in to do a kill leaves me way open, or I am winning anyway and then the card only speeds me up (which is nice, but more of a win-more).

Also as naya charm actually taps the potential blockers it will leave the target opponent open to other attacks as well, while order / chaos requires you to do the work.

Jeyal, sounds like a nice win :).

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I sleep all day and I dance all night
I'm a gabber and I feel OK
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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-22 8:56 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-25 3:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
pi wrote:
Well, I am playing naya charm, which has a similar effect. I am dying to try it out, but the card has been in my deck for about half a year now and I just haven't ever been in a situation where I'd use it for that ability. I've used it plenty of times to good effect for it's other abilities, but I have not yet run into a situation where that 3rd ability was actually relevant. Either I am scrambling to keep up and going all in to do a kill leaves me way open, or I am winning anyway and then the card only speeds me up (which is nice, but more of a win-more).

Also as naya charm actually taps the potential blockers it will leave the target opponent open to other attacks as well, while order / chaos requires you to do the work.

Jeyal, sounds like a nice win :).


Yeah, I run both Naya charm and Order//Chaos. I just wasn't sure if people were aware of this card as potential for a Mayael deck.

_________________
1] Horde of Notions (Blink)
2] Teneb, The Harvester (Rock)
3] Isperia the Inscrutable (U/W Control)
4] Mayael the Anima (Fatties FTW!)
5] Omnath, Locus of Mana (Big Green Men)
6] Oros, The Avenger (Rock Burn)
7] Savra, Queen of the Golgari (Token Snack)
8] Rafiq of the Many (One Man, Alone)
9] Reaper King (Taste the EPIC!)
10] Uril, the Miststalker (Dark Rafiq)


I THINK in metaphors


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-22 12:27 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-26 7:50 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
Ah ok, thanks then of course.

Played 1 game today. We were with 6 players, including 2 mono black players who made sure to let us know they would have a lot of removal and specifically noted what they'd do to my deck.

It quickly became apparent they weren't kidding. Lot's of removal was flying around and I am sure they could have taken out Mayael whenever I played her and probably would have. I was playing on making the most of the mass removal that was sitting in my hand, starstorm, arashi and rout together with a few man lands, so actually I did not care much. When tawnos's coffin turned up somewhere around my 6th draw I was very happy.

The coffin was reallly the MVP of this match, first kicking around a wispmare, killing enchantments left and right which more people appreciated than other people got annoyed by (especially as I wasn't choosing what got destroyed as it wasn't my mare). The board was at some point cleared by an opponent and my coffin still remained throwing off combat math everywhere and allowing me to make all sorts of alliances. In one particular part of the game an opponent played hunted dragon and I suggested he gave me the tokens or he'd be having to hand out 3 more of them every round. He did and more. It became in his best interest to have me save his dragon a few times and hand me more tokens in return, of which I had up to 9 at some point.

I should not have been surprised when the opponent in question played insurrection not too long after. I'll admit I was, but I was up to the challenge with both starstorm and rout in hand with a havoc demon in play. A very interesting situation arose. I had announced I was going to play starstorm and asked to have a count of the creatures in the yards to know what would be needed to kill the mortivore in play. The insurrection player resonded with some kind of a counterspell before I could announce X as the count wasn't done yet. This got me thinking, as I probably would've gone with X=5 if he hadn't and I might have had to bite the bullet. As he had already shown his counter and that wasn't my fault I calculated again and realized I would better just try to kill the 2/2 tokens heading my way and if he let that resolve most other players would still be killed and I'd just be in a not too good position but manageble.

He still decided to counter, so I asked, anybody wanting to counter his counter? Knowing full well I had my rout as a backup just within casting range as I had gone with X=2. Surprisingly 2 opponents that looked doomed anyway decided to react, one countering the counter, the other playing a nameless inversion on the havoc demon. Suddenly everything died but the mortivore. And the inversion player was still gone (I could have saved him, but he was obviously going after me all the time, so that didn't look too good a plan).

After all was said and done I was still looking good with rout in hand and coffin in play. They got me down in the end though, over the course of the game I had taken a few small hits and was holding on to my last few points. I was routing, crater helion made an appearance, got a loop going with woodfall primus, but they were unrelenting and in the end I just couldn't keep up with the mobilization tokens made by zur, who in the end managed to win the game.

A nice detail was that had they let me live to my next turn I would have untapped with a windbrisk heights hiding a windbrisk raptor and a number of creatures attacking gaining me at least 10-12 life.

I think this deck sure can put up a fight even when cornered and down to the last few lifepoints, I have been below 10 for 10-12 turns, about half of which was spent at 2-3 life. I was thoroughly impressed by what the coffin did for me this game and I was thoroughly disappointed by the effect garruk had. All he did was sit there and take some hits for me, untapping just enough land to stay around for some time, he did make my opponents panic, so planeswalkers might not be the best choice in my group. I hope to be able to give ajani vengeant a try next week, but after today's game I'm even wondering whether the goldmane version might be better as I perceive that as having a less threatening ultimate (which seemed to be the main issue for my opponents) while probably gaining me a bit more life than the other ajani would (which seems to be somewhat needed as in many of the larger games my life total gets uncomfortably low for some time, whether I win or loose).

This became a much larger post than I originally wanted to make, but anyway, if you take anything away from this, play Tawnos's Coffin!

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I sleep all day and I dance all night
I'm a gabber and I feel OK
I dance all night and I sleep all day


3 Steps Ahead - I'm A Gabber


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-23 5:09 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-25 3:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Nice game, sounds like the deck played out really well.

pi wrote:
I think this deck sure can put up a fight even when cornered and down to the last few lifepoints, I have been below 10 for 10-12 turns, about half of which was spent at 2-3 life. I was thoroughly impressed by what the coffin did for me this game and I was thoroughly disappointed by the effect garruk had. All he did was sit there and take some hits for me, untapping just enough land to stay around for some time, he did make my opponents panic, so planeswalkers might not be the best choice in my group. I hope to be able to give ajani vengeant a try next week, but after today's game I'm even wondering whether the goldmane version might be better as I perceive that as having a less threatening ultimate (which seemed to be the main issue for my opponents) while probably gaining me a bit more life than the other ajani would (which seems to be somewhat needed as in many of the larger games my life total gets uncomfortably low for some time, whether I win or loose).


I think you just have to pick your spots with planeswalkers. If you can play garruk on turn 3 (with mana accel) and get him working early in the game it's good and helps power out Mayael. I don't think you should look at him as a planeswalker more like a mana accel or sponge for damage etc.

I run both him and the r/w ajani in mine as of right now mostly just to get these cards some play time because I don't play much standard at all. Either play them late or realy early in the game so they can effect the board. Obviously you need some defense to drop a planeswalker behind which is why I like running beacon behemoth which I'm not sure if you run or not.

_________________
1] Horde of Notions (Blink)
2] Teneb, The Harvester (Rock)
3] Isperia the Inscrutable (U/W Control)
4] Mayael the Anima (Fatties FTW!)
5] Omnath, Locus of Mana (Big Green Men)
6] Oros, The Avenger (Rock Burn)
7] Savra, Queen of the Golgari (Token Snack)
8] Rafiq of the Many (One Man, Alone)
9] Reaper King (Taste the EPIC!)
10] Uril, the Miststalker (Dark Rafiq)


I THINK in metaphors


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-23 5:56 am 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-26 7:50 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
It sure was an enjoyable game and up till the end it was unclear who would win and there were still topdecks I could make to stay in the game.

Maybe it´s my group, but I dropped Garruk and everybody suddenly focussed on getting rid of it. I´ll admit I had quite a few of those 2/2 knight tokens at the time, but that would still only take out 1-2 opponents at most and I wouldn´t use it like that anyway, knowing that´d make me a big target. I don´t mind cards that attract this much attention in 3-4 player games as I can generally handle this much, but when in a 5-6 player game suddenly everybody is gunning for one of your cards (or you) things get too dangerous for my liking. The only reason Garruk lived for as long as it did was that some removal was played only a few turns before and most players hadn´t had the chance to build up yet. (Which I´ll admit also made him look more dangerous than he was).

I agree you need to have something to hide behind, I had tawnos´s coffin, ghitu encampment, forbidding watchtower and yavimaya hollow in play with a bunch of other lands as well. Still everyone came for me. I do not have that behemoth in my deck (I´d probably play a Johan if I wanted the effect), but I would suspect that if I am both attacking and blocking with large guys that would make it even more obvious to my opponents that they need to get rid of me.

Maybe this is my philosophy to multiplayer in general, but I do not want to seem the biggest threat unless I can really follow it up. I dislike cards that make me look like this but that do not live up to the expectation. I tend to do things like fake a miss with Mayael or hold back on playing stuff just to seem weaker than I am. I just cannot see Mayael going up full force against 5 opponents, but I can very well see her mop up after a few of them have died after some border wars. Border wars happen all the time in our games and they know they´ll get back everything I can throw at them if they come for me, even if that leaves me weak and defenseless. Result is that people tend to miss me in those border wars and I´ll stand a pretty good chance in the aftermath.

Of course they´re starting to realize things go this way pretty often, so some people now go for me by default if given a few similar targets. I know at least one of them is reading these forums, so I might have just spoiled things a bit for myself ;).

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I'm a gabber and I feel alright
I sleep all day and I dance all night
I'm a gabber and I feel OK
I dance all night and I sleep all day


3 Steps Ahead - I'm A Gabber


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-26 11:46 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 1:24 pm
Age: Dragon
Hi all-

Just wanted to say that I discovered these forums recently, and found this thread about Mayael. I decided to make a version of the deck (essentially picking and chosing from what I saw here) for online play, and it has been working great! There's something about dropping a constant supply of never ending fat that just makes you feel good inside. One thing I've noticed is that I play a little more aggressively, so I end up trying to take out the control players in my games first.

Last night I played a 4 man game against decks with Savra, Rafiq and Eron the Relentless. The Rafiq player was the control guy, and made some moves to blow things up early, ticking off the other two guys. I got a slow start, but Savra and Eron beat up on Rafiq pretty good. I ended up piling on and knocking Rafiq out. By then I had Mayael going full force, with Spearbreaker Behemoth, Panglacial Wurm, Bogarden Hellkite and others beating down, with Genesis in the graveyard in case I wanted anyone back. Damnation couldn't help the Savra player while I had the Spearbreaker out, and the Eron player had dumped his hand already and couldn't draw additional cards. Needless to say the game ended quickly from there.

The cards that I've run into that pose problems are Damping Matrix and Cursed Totem, and to a lesser extent Suppression Field, which shut down the Mayael card advantage engine. People use them for hate against various other generals (Jhoira, etc.) and I get the splash damage. They aren't common, but they definitely hurt, so I'm looking for more guys like Woodfall Primus to help out.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for the info and game recaps.


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-26 12:20 pm 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
You're welcome :).

What do they have for backup for the matrix and the totem? By themselves they don't stop huge creatures very well. You can always get around them by hardcasting your fatties, if you can activate Mayael you should be pretty close to casting them anyway. If you face a lot of this you would perhaps want to head more for the fatties that are better in combat and are less good at doing tricks. I think my aproach would be to clear the board at the right time (preferably after they've depleted their resources a bit) and try to make enough fatties stick to overwhelm them.

But I'll admit I tend to not play very aggresively, so we probably aproach this differently. maybe you can post your list? Would be hard to suggest more primus like cards if we don't know what you're playing already :).

On a side note, what do you use to play multiplayer online?

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I'm a gabber and I feel alright
I sleep all day and I dance all night
I'm a gabber and I feel OK
I dance all night and I sleep all day


3 Steps Ahead - I'm A Gabber


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-26 3:05 pm 

Joined: 2008-Nov-25 3:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
pi wrote:
Maybe this is my philosophy to multiplayer in general, but I do not want to seem the biggest threat unless I can really follow it up. I dislike cards that make me look like this but that do not live up to the expectation. I tend to do things like fake a miss with Mayael or hold back on playing stuff just to seem weaker than I am. I just cannot see Mayael going up full force against 5 opponents, but I can very well see her mop up after a few of them have died after some border wars. Border wars happen all the time in our games and they know they´ll get back everything I can throw at them if they come for me, even if that leaves me weak and defenseless. Result is that people tend to miss me in those border wars and I´ll stand a pretty good chance in the aftermath.


Intentionally missing with mayael is an interesting tactic that I didn't see before. Sometimes it is about making yourself seem threatening most people don't want to swing with an army of 1/1 soldiers into a wall of 5+ power dudes even if you're outnumbered 2 to 1. If I'm ever left to mop up it's because I've been fighting in the entire game; in my play group if you appear weak enough to target or strong enough, you die. The best is to remain neutral and "go with the mob" to take down the players that play decks that do "unfair things" like combo off. Honestly I don't think combo has any place in EDH at all. It's 100 card singleton and combo should not be an option. The closest thing I run to combo is system blink with recursion but even that has a chance to be disrupted.

I guess that's why I like mayael a lot, the same reason that Tarasco said. There's something really great about overloading on fatties and swinging. Just don't over extend too much which may include holding back on mayael and playing it out of your hand instead.

_________________
1] Horde of Notions (Blink)
2] Teneb, The Harvester (Rock)
3] Isperia the Inscrutable (U/W Control)
4] Mayael the Anima (Fatties FTW!)
5] Omnath, Locus of Mana (Big Green Men)
6] Oros, The Avenger (Rock Burn)
7] Savra, Queen of the Golgari (Token Snack)
8] Rafiq of the Many (One Man, Alone)
9] Reaper King (Taste the EPIC!)
10] Uril, the Miststalker (Dark Rafiq)


I THINK in metaphors


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-26 3:25 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Dec-26 7:50 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
It's not like it's a tactic I use often, but if I have a weaker fatty in there and can probably hold on with what I've got, why not miss? I'm playing with these guys every week, I need to think about how they see me in future games and the more often Mayael misses the less threatening she seems. Now that I am building a new EDH deck I might actually consider missing a bit more often, so that if I bring out Mayael again after some time their expectation is lower. I might also use the tactic to try to stay in that sweet spot between being too weak or too strong, as my groups especially responds to being too strong (and lesser so to being too weak, they're gentlemen). However this is harder to do, because when you get going you're going to have their attention and will probably need anything you can get to keep them at bay.

I tend to like Mayael for the card advantage she gives you and the backup plan of overloading on the fatties and swinging. I tend to focus more on cardadvantage, holding back at the right times, playing from hand if I need to, etc. But if all else fails, let timmy take the lead, he'll show the way :)

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I'm a gabber and I feel alright
I sleep all day and I dance all night
I'm a gabber and I feel OK
I dance all night and I sleep all day


3 Steps Ahead - I'm A Gabber


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-26 4:16 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 1:24 pm
Age: Dragon
pi wrote:
On a side note, what do you use to play multiplayer online?


I use MTGO. I like the rules manager on there, but there are occasionally bugs that still pop up that are very annoying (a player was eliminated while his Cursed Totem was still in play, and unfortunately the Totem's effect remained even after the guy was dead). Obviously the card pool is smaller as well. But you don't get into rules arguments, which is nice. I don't like getting complicated, just turn 'em sideways and go.

During the bugged game I mention I was also hitting a land glut, so not being able to use Mayael really stalled me out. I think I may still have won that game, though, by casting fatties like you said. Just took a little longer than it should have.

Playing on MTGO you aren't with the same playgroup, so you don't usually have to worry about creating tendencies that your friends notice. Although oftentimes you do run into people you recognize. There is still some politiking, it's just not as pronounced, I think.

I'm at work right now, but I'll see if I can get my decklist posted tonight.


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-26 11:40 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 1:24 pm
Age: Dragon
All right, here's the decklist. Nothing earth shattering, and most of the stuff is from decks I've seen here:

General
Mayael

Big Critters (32)
Panglacial Wurm
Silvos
Living Inferno
Godsire
Cloudthresher
Woodfall Primus
Vigor
Spitebellows
Rith
Razia
Penumbra Wurm
Meglonoth
Krosan Tusker
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Bloodfire Colossus
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Yosei
Wolly Thoctar
Windbrisk Raptor
Vemonsprout Brackus
Twilight Shepard
Spearbreaker Behemoth
Shivan Hellkite
Magus of the Arena
Hateflayer
Flameblast Dragon
Eternal Dragon
Bull Ceradon
Bogardan Hellkite
Blazing Archon
Arashi

Other Critters (5)
Wickerbough Elder
Genesis
Kiki-Jiki
Bloom Tender
Ashling the Pilgrim

Control (11)
Wrath of God
Faith's Fetters
Starstorm
Swords to Plowshares
Austere Command
Brightflame
Breath of Darigaaz
Firespout
Incendiary Command
Rout
Savage Twister

Other Stuff (12)
Greater Good
Sylvan Library
Miraculous Recovery
Naya Charm
Radiate
Wild Ricochet
Harmonize
Scroll Rack
Rings of Brighthearth
Obelisk of Naya
Primal Command
Waves of Aggression

Land (39)
Highland Weald
Miren
Kher Keep
Battlefield Forge
Boros Garrison
Brushland
Forgotten Cave
Fungal Reaches
Grasslands
Gruul Turf
Jungle Shrine
Karplusan Forest
Krosan Verge
Mirrodin's core
Mosswort Bridge
Naya Panorama
New Benalia
Saltcrusted Steppe
Secluded Steppe
Selesnya Sanctuary
Spinerock Knoll
Sunhome, fortress of legion
Temple of the false god
Terramorphic Expanse
Tranquil Thicket
Vivid grove
Vivid crag
Vivid meadow
Windswept Heath
Savannah
Temple Garden
Stomping Ground
Sacred Foundry
2 forest, 2 mountain, 2 plains

My unexpected MVP is Brightflame. That always gains me at least 20 life, and usually wipes out a bunch of critters. Waves of Aggression is fun too. I like Wild Ricochet and Radiate just for the goofiness. Possible cuts include Incendiary Command and Breath of Darigaaz.

I haven't missed once yet with Mayael.


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-27 1:00 am 
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Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
Thanks for posting the list. I can't help but wonder, wouldn't you want to play seeker of skybreak if you have kik-jiki in? Or isn't he released on MTGO?

Maybe I should try brightflame some time, Jeyal's also very enthousiastic about it. I couldn't see myself cutting breath of darigaaz, I'm very happy with it, but I did cut that command as well, its effect just isn't as good as you want it to be. I believe tawnos's coffin was released online in master edition or something, I would recommend that card.

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I'm a gabber and I feel alright
I sleep all day and I dance all night
I'm a gabber and I feel OK
I dance all night and I sleep all day


3 Steps Ahead - I'm A Gabber


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-27 9:25 am 

Joined: 2008-Nov-25 3:51 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
Brightflame is worth it if for nothing else than to completely demolish a token deck. In a format with a lot of 3+ color decks it is pretty good. The ideal place for it I guess is if you need another sweeper. I wouldn't cut breath to run brightflame but if you can find the room to squeeze it in, I think it's worth it.

_________________
1] Horde of Notions (Blink)
2] Teneb, The Harvester (Rock)
3] Isperia the Inscrutable (U/W Control)
4] Mayael the Anima (Fatties FTW!)
5] Omnath, Locus of Mana (Big Green Men)
6] Oros, The Avenger (Rock Burn)
7] Savra, Queen of the Golgari (Token Snack)
8] Rafiq of the Many (One Man, Alone)
9] Reaper King (Taste the EPIC!)
10] Uril, the Miststalker (Dark Rafiq)


I THINK in metaphors


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AgePosted: 2009-Feb-27 10:00 am 
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The omission of Seeker of Skybreak is a mistake. However, I have yet to draw Kiki-Jiki once. I was thinking of replacing it as well, but since I've never drawn it, I don't know how effective it is.

Tawnos' Coffin is out online and I do own a copy, so I will give it a shot.

Breath has just been underwhelming for me everytime I've drawn it. For some reason Firespout and Savage Twister seem to work better, mainly for the ability to hit flyers. I seem to be running into a lot of flyers recently.

There are a couple more Conflux cards I'm looking at but just don't have yet, specifically Paleoloth. Do you guys like him better than Genesis? My only issues with Genesis is the mana required to activate him. I think I would rather have something that activates for "free" but Genesis in the graveyard seems slightly more durable and likely to stick around than another creature in play.

I also realized that Wickerbough Elder doesn't work if there's a Cursed Totem or similar artifact out, so I'm replacing that with Indrik Stomphowler.

I remember someone mentioning Titanic Ultimatum. Is that worth a spot? Since I'm a little aggro, I do tend to have a bunch of dudes out and attacking, so I'm thinking of throwing that in as well. Any other Conflux suggestions? I'll mess around with the deck a little more and let you know how it works.


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