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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-01 12:10 am 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-16 5:36 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Toronto, ON
misterQ wrote:
I'm still working on including Patriarch's Bidding and upping the Dragon count by returning Numot, the Devastator to the deck and adding Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund (also previously suggested by Sinis.)

That's what Bojuka Bog, Nihil Spellbomb and similar are for! :P

Patriarch's Bidding should probably not be too symmetric. At the very least, with Karrthus and a small set of dragons, you can probably squish the person who gained the most before they can untap with their newly animated goodies. Between a bog or bomb and the haste on your side, Patriarch's tends to be fairly one-sided, even though it pretends to play equally. Same with Living Death.

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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-02 6:28 am 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-06 5:57 am
Age: Drake
I've made the necessary cuts to include Patriarch's Bidding, Greater Good and a couple extra dragons:

+1 Patriarch's Bidding
+1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
+1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
+1 Vorosh, the Hunter
+1 Greater Good
-1 Blatant Thievery
-1 Bringer of the Black Dawn
-1 Mindslaver
-1 Hellkite Overlord
-1 Forbidden Alchemy

I only add Vorosh because of Dragon Tyrant and Skithiryx. When it was just the Tyrant I felt it wasn't worth it.

I'm not 100% sure about the cuts so please comment.

The deck is getting to be pretty competitive, it might not be long before my playgroup refuses to play against it... We sometimes play archenemy with our EDH decks so maybe that's the way to go for this monstrosity ;)

I also think Nezumi Graverobber should become Nihil Spellbomb as it's searchable with Trinket Mage, recurrable with Academy Ruins and most of the time Nezumi doesn't live long enough to reanimate something anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-02 7:07 am 

Joined: 2009-Jun-05 7:30 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Cut the Lightning Greaves before the Hellkite Overlord. More Dragons = Good.

Nezumi should swap with the spellbomb.

Of the cards remaining, the only ones that I have anything to comment on are...
Debtor's Knell - I really want to like this card for it's awesome factor. I've played it in a lot of decks and it scares the table far more than it should. I'd prefer to see a Victimize 9 times out of 10.
Future Sight - Do you find it easy to get the triple blue?
Gilded Lotus - This should be a Skyshroud Claim or even better a Primeval Titan. This card is everyone's favourite Mana Rock to nuke.
All Suns' Dawn vs. Creeping Renaissance/Living Death
Far Wanderings - I know you've cut the majority of your basic land search already, this one is the only one that still sticks out.
Shred Memory vs Memory's Journey, I like the fact that Memory's Journey will let you recycle dragons whilst also serving as reasonable GY Hate.

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2C:
Nath (Elves everywhere); Wort, the Raidmother (Goblins everywhere)
Shards:
Big Mac and Pickles (Angus Mackenzie Control inc. Pickles Lock)|Sharuum (Artifact Combo)|Garza Zol (Vampires+Goodstuff); Sedris (I can steal anything); Nicol Bolas (WIP)|Kresh (Jund Good Stuff);Karrthus (Dragon Tokens Everywhere)|Tamanoa (Earthquakes Galore)
Wedges:
Oros (Life gaining Pings)|Riku's Perfect Snowstorm (Variety of Storms+Snow)|Doran the Explorer (Wall Tribal)|Ruhan (Voltron);Zedruu (Enchantments)
5C:
Scion (Dragon Stompy Midrange)


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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-02 7:50 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 2:19 am
Age: Wyvern
DAAAN wrote:
Cut the Lightning Greaves before the Hellkite Overlord. More Dragons = Good.

Nezumi should swap with the spellbomb.

Of the cards remaining, the only ones that I have anything to comment on are...
Debtor's Knell - I really want to like this card for it's awesome factor. I've played it in a lot of decks and it scares the table far more than it should. I'd prefer to see a Victimize 9 times out of 10.
Future Sight - Do you find it easy to get the triple blue?
Gilded Lotus - This should be a Skyshroud Claim or even better a Primeval Titan. This card is everyone's favourite Mana Rock to nuke.
All Suns' Dawn vs. Creeping Renaissance/Living Death
Far Wanderings - I know you've cut the majority of your basic land search already, this one is the only one that still sticks out.
Shred Memory vs Memory's Journey, I like the fact that Memory's Journey will let you recycle dragons whilst also serving as reasonable GY Hate.


I really don't agree on Hellkite overlord choice. It's just dumb beater, and before anyone says something about dragon tyrant, other usually kills one shot, other don't. There's the difference.

If you wanna keep Knell, i would add also Academy Rector, while don't be dragon he can also fetch other things than Knell too. Only thing i dislike is that you really can't recur him without playing Riftsweeper or similar cards, but cheating Knell in play for four mana + possible life gain when chumping is fine for me.

I would't also not considering Creeping Renaissance. You really don't wanna your dragons to stuck in your hand. If that would put them in library, then maybe but still living death is ceaselessly better here WITH Patriarch's bidding.

On Gilded lotus, i would run both cards you suggested here along with lotus. Sundering titan rapes this deck so bad, that some amount of artifact mana which produces some color mana is good.


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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-02 8:05 am 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-06 5:57 am
Age: Drake
I always want to draw Lightning Greaves to protect and hasten Scion, it's one of my most tutored cards (using Shred Memory preferably.)

You're right about Primeval Titan but Far Wanderings and Gilded Lotus are personal favorites. Although I'm starting to sway towards Skyshroud Claim to replace Far Wanderings. The real reason I'm still playing Cultivate, Far Wanderings and Solemn Simulacrum is the fact that I'm playing the original Arena basic lands cycle :)
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/A ... arcana/186

A lot of the time Scion is my only creature in play so imho Victimize is a potentially dead card while Debtor's Knell gives me my opponent's creatures as well (their instakilled Primeval Titans preferably) There are only 4 creatures in my deck which I'd really want to victimize (Solemn, Trinket Mage, Eternal Witness and Snapcaster Mage) and what if they get killed in response? I prefer my opponents wasting a card to deal with Debtor's Knell and I prefer my reanimation not to be limited to my own graveyard.

By the time I want to play Future Sight, getting UUU is no problem and it's insane if you have Sensei's Divining Top in play (and to a lesser extent Scroll Rack.)

All Suns' Dawn vs Creeping Renaissance is an interesting question, I'll keep track of what I'm usually returning when I cast All Suns' Dawn and decide then. So far I'm always getting back 3-4 key cards in my graveyard.

As for Living Death, I think it should be joined at the hip with Survival of the Fittest and an army of enters/leaves the battlefield creatures. Patriarch's Bidding fits the theme better and should be tutored for to win the game, if I need Living Death to supplement it I'm either doing something wrong or playing free for all multi's with 6+ people :)

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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-02 8:11 am 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-06 5:57 am
Age: Drake
Genesis, I don't think All Suns' Dawn or Creeping Renaissance should ever be used to get dragons back from the yard and I don't think that was what Daaan was suggesting. Most of the time Dawn nets me at least a tutor, removal and one of my non-dragon creatures which makes it allright in my book and something Creeping Renaissance can't accomplish.

I also don't have a reliable way to sacrifice Academy Rector to warrant playing it. I think the Rector works best in some kind of combo deck that relies on a specific enchantment being in play (Oath of Druids for example)

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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-02 8:27 am 

Joined: 2010-Dec-14 2:19 am
Age: Wyvern
misterQ wrote:
Genesis, I don't think All Suns' Dawn or Creeping Renaissance should ever be used to get dragons back from the yard and I don't think that was what Daaan was suggesting. Most of the time Dawn nets me at least a tutor, removal and one of my non-dragon creatures which makes it allright in my book and something Creeping Renaissance can't accomplish.

I also don't have a reliable way to sacrifice Academy Rector to warrant playing it. I think the Rector works best in some kind of combo deck that relies on a specific enchantment being in play (Oath of Druids for example)


I didn't mean that you would be getting dragons with ASD. But what else you are going to return with Renaissance? Lands? If you need to return lands, then you are hitted by LD of somekind and you are not winning that way then. Here if you have enought mana to play Living Death then you would be much better shape usually than returning something irrelevant with Renaissance. I agree that ASD is great cards in 5-color deck, returning five cards for five mana is good yes.

About Rector, you said something what is true with rector too:

Quote:
I prefer my opponents wasting a card to deal with ---


If they are removing Rector to exile then they are not killing your Scion with that spell. And if they don't remove Rector, oh well. Good games. You said you don't have many ways to get rid of him, i would still run High Market and other lands what helps you sacrifice your dudes when they are going to be stealed, exiled or destroyed. They also work well with living death etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Scion of the BUr-rokenness
AgePosted: 2012-Jan-02 8:37 am 
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Joined: 2011-Dec-06 5:57 am
Age: Drake
Genesis wrote:
You said you don't have many ways to get rid of him, i would still run High Market and other lands what helps you sacrifice your dudes when they are going to be stealed, exiled or destroyed. They also work well with living death etc.


I know but I'm afraid my 5-color manabase can't afford Miren & High Market

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