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 Post subject: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2011-May-15 11:18 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-22 2:00 pm
Age: Drake
MAJOR EDIT: So, a year and a half later I come back to update this decklist. I would also like to clarify that the misspelling of "Sheoldread" is meant as a joke... not sure why I included that but there it is.

So, I logged in here and was expecting 20+ decklists with the new Praetors, especially Sheoldred. I didn't find any, so I thought I'd share my (very) rough draft of Sheoldred. This used to be my Lim-Dul the Necromancer deck, so it was a pretty easy transition - the main change was to add a bunch of big fat fatties for Sheoldred to re-animate. I'm still trying to find a few more good sac outlets and creatures with good, relevant ETB triggers. Also added some of the good new stuff from NPH - Dismember and Geth's Verdict are AWESOME. So, without further ado, and with apologies for it just being alphabetic - I'll reorganize it at a later date - here it is:

Comments/feedback/advice welcome, but please keep in mind that I have a pretty small pool of cards to work with, and splitting that between 9 EDH decks makes it, well, a challenge.

Thanks!
Erro


General - Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Assassinate
1 Barter in Blood
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Bone Splinters
1 Bubbling Muck
1 Buried Alive
1 Caged Sun
1 Cathodion
1 Cemetery Reaper
1 Chancellor of the Dross
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Corpse Harvester
1 Cruel Revival
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Devour in Shadow
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Dismember
1 Dread Return
1 Enslave
1 Evil Presence
1 Flesh Allergy
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Geth's Verdict
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Grasp of Darkness
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Guul Draz Assassin
1 Heartstabber Mosquito
1 Ivory Tower
1 Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet
1 Life's Finale
1 Liliana Vess
1 Lim-Dul the Necromancer
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Nightshade Assassin
1 Pestilence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Predator, Flagship
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Rend Flesh
1 Scion of Darkness
1 Shauku, Endbringer
1 Sign in Blood
1 Skinrender
1 Soldevi Adnate
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sorin Markov
1 Spawning Pit
38 Swamp
1 Sylvok Lifestaff
1 Syphon Mind
1 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Urborg Justice
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Viscera Seer
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Wurmcoil Engine


Before the new decklist, here are the themes and subthemes:

Themes: Reanimation
Subthemes: Zombies, Phyrexian Arenas

Also note that creatures are sorted by casting cost (fatties to the back). This shows more easily what the ideal targets are for Sheoldred's effect.

New decklist:

Creatures:20
Guul Draz AssassinR
Soldevi Adnate
Gatekeeper of MalakirR
Withered WretchR
Fleshbag MarauderR
Solemn Simulacrum
Graveborn Muse
SkinrenderR
ShriekmawR
Corpse Harvester
Bloodgift Demon
Wurmcoil Engine
Geth, Lord of the Vault
Visara the DreadfulR
Platinum Emperion
Sundering Titan
Avatar of WoeR
Scion of Darkness
Artisan of Kozilek
It That Betrays

Other stuff: 23
Graveyard stuff: 7
Animate Dead
Grave Betrayal
Buried Alive
Exhume
Entomb
Makeshift Mannequin
Reanimate

Tutors/Card-draw: 5
Beseech the Queen
Diabolic Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Syphon Mind
Phyrexian Arena

Equipment: 4
Lightning Greaves
Basilisk Collar
Whispersilk Cloak
Darksteel Plate

True misc: 7
Sorin Markov
Liliana Vess
Tainted Well
Sol Ring
Caged Sun
Witchbane Orb
Spawning Pit

Removal: 16
Single target: 10
Bone Splinters
Dismember
Sudden Death
Murder
Cruel Revival
Go for the Throat
Brittle Effigy

Diabolic Edict
Geth's Verdict
Consuming Vapors

Mass Removal: 6
Black Sun's Zenith
Life's Finale
Barter in Blood
Damnation
Oblivion Stone
Nevinyrral's Disk

Lands: 40
Bojuka Bog
Barren Moor
Phyrexian Tower
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Mystifying Maze
Polluted Mire
33 Swamp

Keep in mind also that a lot of the creatures have a removal-type effect (Shriekmaw, etc). I chose to count these as creatures rather than removal since the deck cares a lot about what's a creature. They are tagged with 'R' however.

OK so now, thoughts/explanations.

1. The deck has been around a while, and it's developed well. I'll be posting the specific card differences between new and old lists below. Its biggest weakness is of course its mono-blackness, and many of the cards are an attempt to patch some of the weaknesses. Brittle Effigy is a card I wouldn't even consider playing in a white deck, but here it gets around pro-Black, Iona, and Undying/Persist/other reanimation. Witchbane Orb is a card I would probably not include in most decks and particularly in blue decks, which have countermagic. On the other hand, Oblivion Stone and the Disk are cards that are great in a lot of decks but particularly shine here, since I have almost nothing else to deal with artifacts/enchantments. On that subject, any suggestions of something like a black or colorless creature with an ETB trigger to Disenchant?

2. The zombies/Phyrexian Arenas subthemes in the persona of Graveborn Muse win SO many games. The card advantage that guy generates is insane. I don't want to turn the deck into just Zombie tribal, but any Zombies/Zombie tribals that work by themselves are welcome suggestions.

3. Win condition: the deck can win a number of different ways, but doesn't really have a particularly strong win condition. Mainly, it accumulates card advantage, empties your board of creatures via Sheoldred, and swings in for 5-10 points of damage per turn. Sheoldred can get in with unblockable damage via Whispersilk Cloak or Tainted Well, but these aren't central strategies. The cloak is more defensive than anything. I used to have Exsanguinate as an alternate win-condition (not infinite just large) but I cut it. I'm thinking of putting it back in and would appreciate any thoughts.

4. Budget: very little money to spend on this - there's a reason the two later Lilianas are missing. If a card is more than $10 or so it's worth wishlisting but I'm not going after it right now.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!

_________________
Generals:
Main
Sharuum the Hegemon - here
Uril, the Miststalker - here
Intet, the Dreamer - All Intet's Purposes
Sheoldred, Whispering One - here
Alternates
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave - mostly a 1v1 deck
Zedruu the Greathearted - here
Progenitus - five color superfriends


Last edited by erronius on 2013-Feb-11 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2011-May-16 12:11 am 
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Joined: 2011-Apr-13 2:53 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I don't know what sort of decks you play against, but this deck doesn't seem to deal with anything except creatures, and it seems to sac its own creatures in order to do so far too often... It doesn't even seem to reanimate much except for one or two cards. Reanimate, Rise from the Grave, Beacon of Unrest, Geth, Lord of the Vault and Profane Command all work very well. Also, if you can afford it, Damnation, Decree of Pain, and Black Sun's Zenith would be good board wipes to replace one or two spot removal spells.

It just seems to me that if your opponents play any good artifacts or enchantments, they won't have to worry about losing them. Oblivion Stone, Curse of the Cabal and Nevinyrral's Disk take care of them when they're already out, or you could run deck disruption like Sadistic Sacrament, Bitter Ordeal, and Jester's Cap.

Also 39 lands seems a bit much. In a mono color deck, you can probably get away with 35 or so. Maybe even less.

erronius wrote:
I'm still trying to find a few more good sac outlets and creatures with good, relevant ETB triggers.

Sac outlets: Phyrexian Altar, Ashnod's Altar, Bloodthrone Vampire, Phyrexian Ghoul, Fallen Angel, Phyrexian Plaguelord

ETB effects: Fleshbag Marauder, Puppeteer Clique, Grave Titan, Body Snatcher, Solemn Simulacrum

I highly recommend adding a second color, like white or blue. So many more efficient cards and combos will become available to you.

_________________
Please disregard the above post. I am probably tired/sick/brain damaged from inhaling metal fumes and dust at work.

Current Decks
Rith, the Awakener (Formerly Asmira, Holy Avenger and Tolsimir Wolfblood)
Sharuum the Hegemon (WIP) (Formerly Teysa, Orzhov Scion)
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind


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 Post subject: Re: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2011-May-16 7:24 am 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-28 2:32 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
A few thoughts on card choices:
Assassinate is just bad. For the same CMC, I'd run Royal Assassin which can land multiple kills if it isn't answered and can be reanimated if it is. (I'd also run Lightning Greaves to protect it, as well as everything else.)

Avatar of Woe and Corpse Connoisseur both seem custom-made for this deck. You also seem a bit short utility in general- here's a few cards I'd consider.

Mana rocks:
Darksteel Ingot
Paradise Plume
Star Compass

Transmute package:
Shred Memory
Netherborn Phalanx
Dimir House Guard
Dimir Machinations

_________________
Geist Dad- Because what Uril really needed is counterspells.
Wort, the Funwrecker- Mass land destruction as a lifestyle choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2011-May-16 8:47 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 7:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
On the same side as avatar of woe there is visara the dreadful. If your running sac outlets then consider grave pact.

mana rocks.
gilded lotus
dreamstone hedron.

bitter ordeal could be good if you can drop a few critters in one go. Maybe hit up a damnation followed by bitter ordeal for an over the top lifes finale haha

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 Post subject: Re: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2011-May-16 1:50 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-22 2:00 pm
Age: Drake
Mooney:

Re: the second color - interesting, but then it wouldn't really be a Sheoldred deck, right?

Also keep in mind that many if not most of the cards you are naming are $5+. Obviously Damnation would be a great addition to the deck. If I had one, I'd play it.

Definitely agree that I don't have much good non-creature hate, but that's not really MB's specialty. Oblivion Stone & Nevy Disk are great, and I don't have them.

Fleshbag is a great idea - not sure why that didn't come to me earlier.

gaijinguy:

Must admit that I hadn't really thought about transmute at all - I'll have to look at those to see what they are fetching, but it could be really good. And Corpse Con, agree, that's an auto-include.

Assassinate's a holdover from when Lim-Dul was the general, and I wanted as many kill-spells as possible that didn't have the non-black restriction. It's moved up on the to be cut list though.


darkheart:
Bitter Ordeal is quite an interesting suggestion - I'm a fan of it, but I think I'll wait on trying to get one until I have more and better mass removal.


Re: the lands - I've had a few different people suggest cutting down to 34-35 lands on several of my decks. What I don't get is that 39 lands is the equivalent of 24 in a 60-card, which is what I tend to start with, and only cut down if I have a lot of mana accel or a low curve. And EDH decks tend to have a much slower/higher curve that 60's. Certainly when you're looking for top-deck answers lands aren't great - but card filtering seems more like the answer, right?

_________________
Generals:
Main
Sharuum the Hegemon - here
Uril, the Miststalker - here
Intet, the Dreamer - All Intet's Purposes
Sheoldred, Whispering One - here
Alternates
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave - mostly a 1v1 deck
Zedruu the Greathearted - here
Progenitus - five color superfriends


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 Post subject: Re: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2011-May-16 4:13 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-28 9:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Damidhol, Tuhel
No Cabal Coffers? If you are going to spend any money at all on this deck, that is the ONE card you really need! If you have Thawing Glaciers I'd put that in too. Journeyer's Kite is good for thinning as well.

Do you have any snow-covered swamps? Those plus scrying sheet is good for filter/draw as well. Also, I see Barter in Blood but not Innocent Blood? And Gravepact is also worth an investment.

I see Caged Sun but no Gauntlet of Power - do you have one? Extraplanar Lens is also good and worth the risk. High Market and Lake of the Dead are also good for mana production.

I also see Pestilence and Platinum Imperion...do you have a Pestilence Demon? Or a Crypt Rat? Throw in Eternity Vessel and Darksteel Armor and you can pestilence with impunity!

I'd also consider Mystifying Maze, and if you go with snow, Mouth of Ronom to take care of pro-black or indestructible critters.

All in all it looks like fun though. Shauku is...inspired, to say the least! I applaud those willing to live dangerously!

_________________
Former StarCityGames.com writer.

Most famous article: Breaking Phage

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc ... Phage.html

Personal Favorite: pWN3D: Recollections of Spectacular Defeats in Multiplayer Magic

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/mult ... Magic.html


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 Post subject: Re: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2011-May-16 7:40 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-22 2:00 pm
Age: Drake
No Coffers, no Glaciers, no Grave Pact, and the few Snow-Covereds I have are in a different deck. Gauntlet is a lot harder to get than Caged Sun - bought a playset of those for $8 at my local store, and I expect them to at LEAST double in value.

People (in my experience) tend to be very shocked at the lack of a card-pool, and yet I routinely beat opponents with a $400+ decklist. Just sayin =).

Innocent Blood also needs to be Acquired. (How many more times am I going to make that joke? It'll be a few).

Did you mean Darksteel Plate? Cause that's one I do want to get, for sure. Just a matter of a few other decks competing for it atm, and have been too lazy to buy another couple - it's a bulk rare, so not difficult to get.

EDIT: Thanks! I like Shauku too. Got him from a friend who called it a "terrible card" - he'll change his tune when I beat his butt with it hehe.

_________________
Generals:
Main
Sharuum the Hegemon - here
Uril, the Miststalker - here
Intet, the Dreamer - All Intet's Purposes
Sheoldred, Whispering One - here
Alternates
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave - mostly a 1v1 deck
Zedruu the Greathearted - here
Progenitus - five color superfriends


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 Post subject: Re: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2011-May-16 10:17 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jun-13 6:09 pm
Age: Wyvern
Like the deck. i run a Balthor mono black reanimator, and i must say, It that betrays is amazing with Sheoldread. they are the first two creatures i go for everytime now. You also seem to be running a lot of "target player sacs", which will make it even more nuts. makes me want to add them to my deck.

_________________
This ain't a war, anymore than a war between men and maggots. Or, dragons and wolves. Or, men riding dragons, throwing wolves at maggots.

Currently Playing:
Horobi the reanimator
Jenara the proliferator
Intet the... dreamor
and
Fear the Myr! *5 colour annoying Deck of doom


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 Post subject: Re: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2011-May-17 4:31 pm 

Joined: 2011-Apr-28 9:58 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Damidhol, Tuhel
Yeah, I meant Darksteel Plate. That card is nuts. I find it and Darksteel Ingot are often the only things left on the table during our games (we have a lot of obliterators in our group).

One card that would do you good and that is quite affordable is Crypt of Agadeem. I have found it in the $1 rare boxes around here. It is sometimes even better than Coffers late-game in a mono-black deck, and with all your black critters you are getting in your 'yard it should shine for you.

_________________
Former StarCityGames.com writer.

Most famous article: Breaking Phage

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc ... Phage.html

Personal Favorite: pWN3D: Recollections of Spectacular Defeats in Multiplayer Magic

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/mult ... Magic.html


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 Post subject: Re: Sheoldread... shhhh.....
AgePosted: 2013-Feb-11 4:22 am 

Joined: 2011-Apr-22 2:00 pm
Age: Drake
Just finished re-reading the old suggestions. And lol'ing at myself for thinking Caged Sun would double in value ("AT LEAST!"). Well, could be worse. It held its value. Who knows, maybe in 5 years they will be up to $3-4 due to not being as available.

Anyway, the suggestions fell basically into three categories: 1) made it into the deck,eventually 2) didn't make it but I would like to include it and 3) bad suggestions - but I don't think there were any of these really. I'd like to go ahead and include a wishlist here as well as a changelist. I'm gonna try for the same format as my other decklist posting. Here it goes:

1. Cut cards between the two lists

2. Added cards between the two lists

3. All-star cards of the deck

4. The chopping block - cards that might need to be replaced
Sundering Titan since, you know, it's banned.

5. The wishlist - cards that should be added


As I was making the list of cards that have been cut over the last year, I realized that while most of them were terrible and had to go, a few of them seemed solid. Why did I cut them? I'm sure I had reasons at the time. Anyway, this is a list of the cards I regret cutting and might like to find a place for again.

6. Nostalgia/reincludes


Lastly, I'd like to speak my mind more forthrightly.
me wrote:
Re: the second color - interesting, but then it wouldn't really be a Sheoldred deck, right?


That was in response to Mooney's suggestion of adding a second color to the deck. I would like to say straight up, I do not consider it polite to suggest adding colors or changing the General of someone's deck, unless of course they have encouraged that ("I'm not sure if mono-black is for me" "Is Sheoldred really the best MB general?"). I know it's free advice on an open forum. I'm not suggesting that someone who does make these suggestions be shunned, excoriated, or whatnot. I do think it is less than polite to effectively reply to the question "How can I make this deck better?" "Don't build that deck".

Anyway, that's my two cents. If someone feels less inclined to give me feedback 'cause they think I'll jump on them, that's certainly not the impression I meant to convey, but I can live with it.

SO! With that said, any thoughts on how to improve the deck?

P.S.: Somehow I have a discrepancy between cards removed and cards added. My count comes out to 35 removed and 36 added. Possibly the original list was only 98? Anyway I've been starting at too many card lists. I'll come back later. I'll also do allstars and chopping block... I promise.

_________________
Generals:
Main
Sharuum the Hegemon - here
Uril, the Miststalker - here
Intet, the Dreamer - All Intet's Purposes
Sheoldred, Whispering One - here
Alternates
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave - mostly a 1v1 deck
Zedruu the Greathearted - here
Progenitus - five color superfriends


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