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 Post subject: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-11 4:02 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Dec-03 3:16 am
Age: Elder Dragon
So MaRo's comment that Warlords of Tarkir being a wedge set, but not a wedge block to me means that one of the colors is going to be dropped. The question is whether it will be allied or enemy colors. Based on the below Uncharted Realms article it seems that it is allied (which is kind of sad as allied generally has more support/more cards then enemy).

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/no-end-and-no-beginning-2015-02-11

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/96433738783/i-think-one-of-the-depressing-things-about-khans

Edit: it seems that Azban is dropping black (Necromancy).

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-11 5:42 pm 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
That should have been obvious from looking at FRF. Unless I'm forgetting something, only the hybrid cards were "tri-color" (with the enemy color fading away via hybrid) and each clan mechanic only appeared in the allied pair (no Red Prowess, no White Dash, no Blue Ferocious, etc.)

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-11 6:02 pm 
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While I think your right in several ways, I was hoping stuff like Harsh Sustenance meant that they would go with enemy instead of allied.

crokaycete wrote:
clan mechanic only appeared in the allied pair (no Red Prowess, no White Dash, no Blue Ferocious, etc.)


This could be that they did not want to use up design space in Dragons, so the cards that didn't make sense to be in (Insert allied color) that did make sense for the mechanic went to FRF and if it was okay (for enemy colors) it was saved for Dragons. Mardu Strike Leader would make more sense as a red or white creature, as Black does not often make tokens and I cannot think of a time that it makes tokens on attacking, but white and red both do that.

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-12 1:17 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
The implied narrative suggests that it is allied colors, as well, with the dragons avoiding extinction and establishing dominance. We've got 5 new watermarks for the dragon broods in Fate Reforged, and I'm going to be surprised if they have the khans win anyway despite Sarkhan's meddling.

I think we might see a small bit of enemy color pairing for the beleaguered, but still extant, clans. Hopefully enemy fetchlands, too, but that is more about hoping rather than thinking it is a shoe-in.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-12 1:46 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
JJackson wrote:
Hopefully enemy fetchlands, too, but that is more about hoping rather than thinking it is a shoe-in.
MaRo said that they are going to do full cycles of 10 lands per block. (That may have changed, but that's what was stated before.)
Inkeyes22 wrote:
Mardu Strike Leader would make more sense as a red or white creature, as Black does not often make tokens and I cannot think of a time that it makes tokens on attacking, but white and red both do that.
That's just not accurate. Black makes zombie tokens all the time. Grave Titan makes tokens when it attacks and prior to FRF Utvara Hellkite was the only red creature to do so. Curse of Shallow Graves also indicates that WotC puts this type of ability comfortably in black's slice of the pie.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-12 3:27 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
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crokaycete wrote:
JJackson wrote:
Hopefully enemy fetchlands, too, but that is more about hoping rather than thinking it is a shoe-in.
MaRo said that they are going to do full cycles of 10 lands per block. (That may have changed, but that's what was stated before.)

He said it as a generality rather than a hard & fast rule. It isn't going to surprise me either way, honestly.

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/50 ... easons-why


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-12 8:07 am 
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crokaycete wrote:
JJackson wrote:
Hopefully enemy fetchlands, too, but that is more about hoping rather than thinking it is a shoe-in.
MaRo said that they are going to do full cycles of 10 lands per block. (That may have changed, but that's what was stated before.)
Inkeyes22 wrote:
Mardu Strike Leader would make more sense as a red or white creature, as Black does not often make tokens and I cannot think of a time that it makes tokens on attacking, but white and red both do that.
That's just not accurate. Black makes zombie tokens all the time. Grave Titan makes tokens when it attacks and prior to FRF Utvara Hellkite was the only red creature to do so. Curse of Shallow Graves also indicates that WotC puts this type of ability comfortably in black's slice of the pie.


They care about having an even distribution in standard, not in block, and with the new rotations, Khans will rotate out before Dragons, so Zendikar fetches seem unlikely.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-12 11:12 am 

Joined: 2014-Jul-26 11:35 am
Age: Elder Dragon
crokaycete wrote:
JJackson wrote:
Hopefully enemy fetchlands, too, but that is more about hoping rather than thinking it is a shoe-in.
MaRo said that they are going to do full cycles of 10 lands per block. (That may have changed, but that's what was stated before.)


This has been misquoted often, what MaRo actually said is they include land support across all the colour pairs, that is why we currently have enemy pains and allied fetches. Having allied fetches does not imply a reprint of enemy fetches, nor does it preclude it.

As for the rest, there was definite implication that the missing clan mechanics had a specific reason. With allied coloured dragons in FRF I can certainly see the dragons set being allied focused. Enemy colours got some love so I'm not too annoyed if they transition back to the status quo.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-12 11:16 am 

Joined: 2009-Feb-09 4:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I think it goes without saying at this point that Dragons will be allied colored. The only question is whether there will be any remaining enemy-colored "clan holdouts" or whether the set will be five two-color pairs. My guess is the latter will be the case to mirror the fact that there were no allied-color two-color cards in Khans.

As for specific mechanics, we can probably take a guess based on what's happening in FRF. Green has a bunch of "bounce your own guy" mechanics that aren't particularly supported in KtK, so it's possible that Temur's new ability will be some sort of CiP nonsense. Blue-black has mill cards because of course blue-black has to be the mill faction, what else could blue-black possibly be? Red-black will be dash, white-green will be bolster, and blue-white will probably end up being some sort of spell-heavy tempo deck like Azorius was in RtR.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-12 2:02 pm 
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Okay I should have said that Black does not really make tokens when attacking, that is more White's thing. The example of Grave Titan and Curse of Shallow Graves is true, so at best Black is making tokens on attacking at the secondary level at best. Red only does it with Goblin Rabblemaster, Flamerush Rider and Utvara Hellkite making it more likely the secondary color and Black tied with Green as tertiary. Green does it with Nacatl War-Pride and Kessig Cagebreakers. Blue doesn't do it at all unless you count Geist of Saint Traft.

Just for completeness I'll throw Mardu Ascendancy here even though it does not make a bit of difference to get rid of this straw man argument.

Every color makes tokens, that is a given. I still believe that Mardu Strike Leader would make as much (if not more) sense as White (i.e. Precinct Captain or Brimaz, King of Oreskos or Hero of Bladehold Launch the Fleet Militia's Pride).

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Shabbaman wrote:
The usual answer is "the social contract", but I guess that is not what you are looking for. Try house rules.


With perfect mana, reasonable removal, disruption, and card advantage, we're back to pitchforks and torches. And it's about to get worse for those who do not enjoy the game as Richard Garfield intended, playing as few win conditions as possible and prompting concession after all hopes (and spells) are lost. - Shaheen Soorani


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-13 2:01 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Inkeyes22 wrote:
Red only does it with Goblin Rabblemaster...
Rabblemaster doesn't do that though. It makes tokens every turn (which again is more of a black thing with Endless Ranks and Bitterblossom) but it happens to tie the token to the combat step instead of upkeep.
Inkeyes22 wrote:
I still believe that Mardu Strike Leader would make as much (if not more) sense as White
White is clearly the primary color for token-on-attack abilities, but White doesn't get Dash. That's a Black/Red mechanic. And given that Red has the vastly more color-specific Flamerush Rider who also makes tokens, Black is the obvious choice for a "Dash + make a Chump" dude.
DarksteelElephant wrote:
They care about having an even distribution in standard, not in block, and with the new rotations, Khans will rotate out before Dragons, so Zendikar fetches seem unlikely.
There is a huge leap from the premise to the conclusion here. Just because there will be 6 months where Khans is out but Dragons is in doesn't mean they won't treat this like block like a block. We have a big/small/big, present/past/alternate present structure. There will be a cycle of 5 rare two-color lands in Dragons. Choosing to not make the "alternate present" of ONS fetches as ZEN fetches is possible, but hardly a foregone conclusion because of some unrelated changes to Standard rotation schedules.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-13 4:19 am 
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Theros had a full set of 10 two-color lands.
M15 only had enemy color lands, with Khans then only having allied lands. M15 and Khans together fill out a full set of two color lands for standard.

Dragons having enemy Fetchs and Origins having an Allied land cycle (Say, worldwake man-lands for example?) would make perfect sense. I wouldn't be surprised if that was how things worked, in general, from here out. Each large set has five dual lands, with the next large set having the other 5.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-13 5:04 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
kaldare wrote:
Dragons having enemy Fetchs and Origins having an Allied land cycle (Say, worldwake man-lands for example?) would make perfect sense. I wouldn't be surprised if that was how things worked, in general, from here out. Each large set has five dual lands, with the next large set having the other 5.

Which is also what they did with the last 2 bigs & 1 small block (RtR). They seem fine with the mana not being exactly even in a standard format at a particular point in time as long as it gets fixed within a year.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-13 7:19 am 
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If you pay attention to the watermarks in FrF, you will notice that the dragons have a slightly different one from the original clan. This points to the fact that it will be an allied-color set, to match with the big five dragons (Atarka, Kolaghan, etc.).

To compare quickly, here is the standard Temur watermark on Temur Battle Rage and the standard Mardu watermark on Brutal Hordechief.


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons of Tarkir Speculation
AgePosted: 2015-Feb-13 8:36 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
The humans could have to group together to avoid extinction so they form 4 color squads picking the lesser of two evils and splitting their own numbers to a degree... Some Mardu and Abzhan form to make the "not blue" team. Some Jeskai and Temur form the "not black" etc.

Or 1000 years of dragon clans mating with their closest matches gives you a blending of the allied dragon pairs and it becomes a shard block while the humans dwindle to near extinction and become enemy color as they lose portions of their clans.


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